1932 Ford Chassis without the Reveal.

[Bobs32]

I found my serial number on the passenger side, on top of the frame rail when I applied anti rust to the whole frame. It was orange epoxy material that brought the number right up. I didn't notice it while I was sanding down the frame. I'd like to find the one on the driver's side. My patent plate on the firewall has several patent numbers on it. I assume the serial number is stamped on the clear area, that's not black, about mid way down. I gotta check that. It will be tough though, because the fella that painted my firewall painted over the patent plate.

[Fordors]

Bob, the patent plate is just that, there are no numbers pertinent to the vehicle registration on it. Is that a Cabriolet or a Roadster in your avatar?

[Bobs32]

Yes, I thought that clear area, on the patent plate, was blank. Maybe the previous poster is talking about another area on the firewall that the serial number appears. My car is a Roadster. My father bought it in 1957. I friended you so you can check out my before and after pictures.

[Fordors]

Very nice car, and especially cool that it's been in the family since '57. Good to see it ready for the street again.

[DavidG]

Bob,

The serial number (which is in fact the engine number) was not located anywhere on the firewall. It is located on top of the transmission bell housing and on top of the left side of the chassis frame, usually in three locations (on passenger car chassis), the only one of which is visible when the body is on the chassis frame is just forward and slightly inward from the left foot of the firewall.

[Bobs32]

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Thanks for the info Dave, I found the one by the firewall but didn't know about the other places. I'll friend you so you can see my before and after pictures.

[Lucky Mike]

Well Barners.....I HAVE THE ANSWER and it is AWESOME NEWS for me and I think you will all be glad to learn something new today. See below:

Hi Mike,
Finally have a response for you from our specialist:
We do not have the drawings of the frame assembly. However, we do have drawings for the “frame side member” part number B-5016 LH. This is the long “C” section on the driver’s side. There are 16 microfilms of this part with the original drawing being completed on 7-10-1931 and the newest date of 9-15-1932. The reason for all these microfilms was to document the changes from the original drawing. On the oldest microfilm of the drawing there were nine revisions. On the microfilm dated 12-17-1931 are scribbled marks showing proposed changes to add the reveal depression starting behind the steering box holes and continuing to the area that begins to bend upward around rear wheels. The microfilm dated after that shows these drawing changes were officially added on 12-21-1931 as part of engineering change number 2006-53. This engineering change record and the release notice that went to the factory are not in the BFRC archives. Usually when a change is made to the engineering of a part, there is a period of time when the factory creates the tooling to make parts with the change on them. That time varies with the complexity of the change, but would be about 3 months after the change was released to the manufacturing departments. Therefore, it would be reasonable to believe that there were some frames built without the reveal stamped into them. It has been documented in the reference books that there were many changes to the frames of 1932 cars and production was held up until March due to the introduction of the V-8 engines. Many frame changes were completed by the factory, but some may have been installed by dealers. The reveal is one change that could only be done at the stamping plant that made the frame.
The frame reveal can be seen on the microfilm dated 12-21-1931 at section A-A. This is the area that can be seen on the side of the car. The 1932 models did not have a sheet metal.
The sheet metal mentioned in the original answer was in reference to the material known as an “Apron” that mounts between the body and the running boards of 1931 & older cars. On 1932 cars the side of the frame is visible between the body and the running boards, which is why this area of the frame was finished and painted like the body.
References:
The Early Ford V8 As Henry Built IT by Edward P. Francis and George DeAnglis
Pages 16,17, 32, 33,34
I.S.B.N. #0-911383-01-8
Benson Ford Research Center ref # 629.2222 F699 F817 1982

The 1932 Ford Book----A Production Chronicle and Restoration Guide---volume 1
Pages 4-22 and 5-2
Available from “The Early Ford V8 Club of America”
B.F.R.C. ref 629.2222 F699 E1932 2008 v.1 c.1

The 1932 Ford Book----A Production Chronicle and Restoration Guide---volume 2
Available from “The Early Ford V8 Club of America”
B.F.R.C. ref 629.2222 F699 E1932 2008 v.2 c.1

Microfilm
Frame side member
Ford Motor Co. part #B-5016 dates 7-10-31 though 9-15-32
Location A12-C-2 box 18
I hope this information is of assistance and thank you again for your request.
Stephanie
Stephanie Lucas, Research Specialist
Benson Ford Research Center
The Henry Ford
Reading Room Hours:
9:30am - 5:00pm Tuesday - Friday
Closed Mondays, Weekends, and Holidays

[hb32]

Bringing up an old post.
I am in the process of purchasing a Model B pickup that does not have the reveal either. Frame looks like a 32 with riveted cross members and has a B motor in it. Bellhousing flange is stamped with a number that reflects a May 32 build date.
Here is where things get fuzzy. I am aware of the frame VIN stampings in 3 places and this one may have 4.
Vin on front by firewall foot is illedgible. There are stampings on the rear face of the rear cross member that are fairly readable but no star either side of the stamping and hard to tell if it starts with a "B" or "18". Same #`s on top of crossmember fairly crisp with some upside down #`s. The numbers do not correlate with 1932 but fall within the range of 1934.
Not in a position to pull the cab to look at the "B" post area but suspect that the #`s will be the same.
The vehicle was titled using partial numbers off the side of the block which I have had no luck identifying by research.
I am aware of replacement frames but one with out a reveal and then stamped incorrectly?

Thoughts

[34pickup]

Are you certain it isn't a 1933-34?

[hb32]

Originally Posted by 34pickup

Are you certain it isn't a 1933-34?

Yes.
Cab and metal are 32. Wheel base is definitely 106" and frame definitely as all the parts of a 32.

[Bulligen]

It might be a Martins frame. I had one back it 1980. It did have the reveals however. It was a very well built frame. I am sure he would have done whatever the client requested though!

[hb32]

Originally Posted by Bulligen

It might be a Martins frame. I had one back it 1980. It did have the reveals however. It was a very well built frame. I am sure he would have done whatever the client requested though!

Including riveted cross members?
Perplexing me are the VIN stampings in the frame not being close to 32, the star stampings not there and the extra vin location.

[DavidG]

For what it is worth, Ford's instructions to the assembly plants worldwide was to only stamp the engine number in one location on all '32 commercial and truck chassis. That location was the traditional one by the firewall leg on the left side. It made some sense given that many commercial and truck chassis were sold without bodies (behind the cab). Do exceptions exist? Of course!

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Lucky Mike

Well Barners.....I HAVE THE ANSWER and it is AWESOME NEWS for me and I think you will all be glad to learn something new today. See below:

Hi Mike,
Finally have a response for you from our specialist:
We do not have the drawings of the frame assembly. However, we do have drawings for the “frame side member” part number B-5016 LH. This is the long “C” section on the driver’s side. There are 16 microfilms of this part with the original drawing being completed on 7-10-1931 and the newest date of 9-15-1932. The reason for all these microfilms was to document the changes from the original drawing. On the oldest microfilm of the drawing there were nine revisions. On the microfilm dated 12-17-1931 are scribbled marks showing proposed changes to add the reveal depression starting behind the steering box holes and continuing to the area that begins to bend upward around rear wheels. The microfilm dated after that shows these drawing changes were officially added on 12-21-1931 as part of engineering change number 2006-53. This engineering change record and the release notice that went to the factory are not in the BFRC archives. Usually when a change is made to the engineering of a part, there is a period of time when the factory creates the tooling to make parts with the change on them. That time varies with the complexity of the change, but would be about 3 months after the change was released to the manufacturing departments. Therefore, it would be reasonable to believe that there were some frames built without the reveal stamped into them. It has been documented in the reference books that there were many changes to the frames of 1932 cars and production was held up until March due to the introduction of the V-8 engines. Many frame changes were completed by the factory, but some may have been installed by dealers. The reveal is one change that could only be done at the stamping plant that made the frame.
The frame reveal can be seen on the microfilm dated 12-21-1931 at section A-A. This is the area that can be seen on the side of the car. The 1932 models did not have a sheet metal.
The sheet metal mentioned in the original answer was in reference to the material known as an “Apron” that mounts between the body and the running boards of 1931 & older cars. On 1932 cars the side of the frame is visible between the body and the running boards, which is why this area of the frame was finished and painted like the body.
References:
The Early Ford V8 As Henry Built IT by Edward P. Francis and George DeAnglis
Pages 16,17, 32, 33,34
I.S.B.N. #0-911383-01-8
Benson Ford Research Center ref # 629.2222 F699 F817 1982

The 1932 Ford Book----A Production Chronicle and Restoration Guide---volume 1
Pages 4-22 and 5-2
Available from “The Early Ford V8 Club of America”
B.F.R.C. ref 629.2222 F699 E1932 2008 v.1 c.1

The 1932 Ford Book----A Production Chronicle and Restoration Guide---volume 2
Available from “The Early Ford V8 Club of America”
B.F.R.C. ref 629.2222 F699 E1932 2008 v.2 c.1

Microfilm
Frame side member
Ford Motor Co. part #B-5016 dates 7-10-31 though 9-15-32
Location A12-C-2 box 18
I hope this information is of assistance and thank you again for your request.
Stephanie
Stephanie Lucas, Research Specialist
Benson Ford Research Center
The Henry Ford
Reading Room Hours:
9:30am - 5:00pm Tuesday - Friday
Closed Mondays, Weekends, and Holidays

This is the first time I've seen this thread. I read the whole thing, finding it very interesting. I also find it interesting and somewhat baffling that it took a year and 5 months for the first reply since the great response from the Henry as posted by Lucky Mike, and even then without comment on Mike's information. No wonder why Mike hasn't posted anything on the Barn since his post of 3/27/13.

[hb32]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

This is the first time I've seen this thread. I read the whole thing, finding it very interesting. I also find it interesting and somewhat baffling that it took a year and 5 months for the first reply since the great response from the Henry as posted by Lucky Mike, and even then without comment on Mike's information. No wonder why Mike hasn't posted anything on the Barn since his post of 3/27/13.

This info was also on the HAMB.
The first time I read was on researching why my potential pickup did not have the reveal either.

[hb32]

Dragging this back up for those that have not seen Tony Thackers book, 32 Ford Deuce

[DavidG]

It is relevant to note that the date of that photo is more than five months prior to Job #1 on March 10, 1932, i.e. it's a prototype chassis.

[rotorwrench]

From what I gather, the only thing that made the change over to the 1932 model easier than the model A was that they didn't have to build a new assembly plant but they did have to make a lot of additions to the relatively new Dearborn plant at the rouge complex. I'm sure they had a lot of engineering problems before they even assembled the first car. FoMoCo had the advantage of putting the scrap back into the furnace if things didn't work out. The initial design was likely changed a few times before they decided to do away with aprons and just doll up the frame to match up with the fenders. Commercials would have been the only vehicles that may have had something of this nature to start with but Henry was very shrewd on the idea of interchangeability for his products for cost of production reasons so it would be doubtful that the basic design of the cars would have changed after production began.

The first Model A cars or AR cars as they are commonly referred, had a different front motor mount, no shock absorbers, and a lot of little things that were different but the basic design was never changed enough for a unknowing eye to recognize on the outside. The lack of a flowing joint line between the frame and the running boards would have stuck out like a sore thumb. Edsel Ford would've had a problem with that. It would have required either an apron or a different running board design. The model B cars were surprisingly similar outwardly to the model 18 cars so there was little difference there either. Maybe some very early commercials might have been different but they seem pretty much the same as the cars on most of the ones I've seen.

I'd never say never but my skepticism is way out there on whether Ford USA manufactured frames with that noticeable an amount of difference for start up production. There should be pictures of the first cars off the line somewhere that would show how they were configured at the beginning of initial production.

I personally would not be happy with a frame that didn't have a reveal if building a 32 model car. It just would not be a deuce without it.

[DavidG]

The photo below shows the frame on Job #1, March 10, 1932 (engine #18-1, the first production version). It is clearly the flared-side frame.

Notwithstanding, I can envision that some early commercial vehicles may have had frames without the flares given Ford's propensity to minimize scrap by using up obsoleted parts on commercial vehicles.

[rockfla]

I can tell you for 100% certainty that German made frames had the "reveal" and each piece used to make the frame is stamped "made in Germany". Cross member, trans support, rear cross member, both frame rails, all are stamped.