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12-06-2023, 01:24 AM | #61 | |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) Last edited by GB SISSON; 12-06-2023 at 01:37 AM. |
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12-06-2023, 01:46 AM | #62 | |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
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The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... "Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!" "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0 |
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12-06-2023, 04:28 AM | #63 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
Milk can is just the right height for a stool ain’t it?........HEY!......how about some hot coals out if the wood stove......in the milk can.....for a nice warm seat!.......that idea is all for you Bud!.......Mark
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12-06-2023, 09:29 AM | #64 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
Love the C clamp to hold the chain hoist chain out of the way. As well as everything else.
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12-06-2023, 09:49 AM | #65 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
Sorry Mark, That milk can has already been pressed into service. It is now a combination heat shield/ceiling support for the 10' of metalbestos pipe through the attic and roof. I flipped the can on it's head, torched out an 8" hole through the bottom (O.D. of the stainless metalbestos). I then welded two pieces of angle about midway up that now sit on the plywood attic floor. The weight of the 8" stainless chimney pipe is now supported (and centered) in the neck of the milk can which is about 6 1/2" ID. This allows the crimped end of the single wall 6" black pipe to be inserted into the bottom of the insulated pipe. It's like it was made for the purpose. I have a dandy office chair I got at the dump that will be the new workbench stool after I weld in a pipe extension. The upholstery is a lovely gray which pairs quite fashionably with the surrounding machinery.
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
12-06-2023, 12:13 PM | #66 | |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
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Quote:
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The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... "Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!" "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0 |
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12-06-2023, 04:09 PM | #67 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
Thanks Pete! Upon closer inspection I see my kid left a sizeable gap behind the pipe... Never mind the fact that he got here to insulate before I had a chance to sister that joist I hacked out. I'll get right on that after lunch.
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
02-10-2024, 12:30 PM | #68 | |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
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This is what got me interested in the recent post about an NP 435 behind a flathead. Unlike 99% of most V8 enthusiasts, I like a nice granny gear, and almost never have any use for an overdrive with our 40 mph top speed on this rock. It sure looks like a good fit. With the ford style transmission I would need to reduce the input flange O.D. from 4.085 to 4.075 for a nice centered fit into the hogshead (I'm learning new words), then make a sleeve for the TOB snout. Depending on a spacer/plate or not, the 6.5" shaft might be fine and the pilot diameters are the same. The clutch fork and shaft situation seems ok from my limited knowledge of such things. The cross member would need to be addressed, and the driveshaft shortened, wich I have done sucessfully 4 or 5 times. Undoubtedly there would be more that I can't see from here. Just thought this was interesting as I'd have a sturdy truck transmission, granny low, synchromesh, quiet helical gears, ready availability and the kind of engineering problem I like to solve. Upon re-reading this lengthy treatise, I have to ask.... I need opinions here. With my new engine at 276 cu in replacing the 221, a surfaced flywheel, new clutch, new motor mounts etc, will this new combination alleviate the need for the low first and all the clutch slipping/clutch shudder to get rolling uphill? If so, I'd just rebuild my current tranny, bolt it to the new 8ba and drive on.
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
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02-10-2024, 08:15 PM | #69 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
Remind us again what gear ratio you have in the back?
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02-10-2024, 10:08 PM | #70 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
I have no reason to doubt that it is whatever came from the factory in a '47 1/2 ton. In other words, I dunno. I run 215 85 16s all around which are about 30" tall, maybe 31". If there were multiple ratios available I would assume the high gear set.
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
02-11-2024, 10:06 AM | #71 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
Hi Gary, A little off topic but I just have to copy your milk can heat shield in my new shop back here in MO. I'm just insulating and getting ready for the drywall. I was just looking at the price of metalbestos and all of its components. Thanks for saving me some change, Tim
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02-11-2024, 11:34 AM | #72 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
Tim, It's just one of those things that worked out so perfectly, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I have had a few days with 'blast furnace' stove temps and glad for the additional 1" of air space the milk can affords.
Some thoughts on hp and torque as relates to Henry's drivetrain engineers in the late '30s. Consider the introduction of the 60 hp flathead. A special low first gear replaced the first gear that had been standard with the 85 hp. This likely mattered most to 'Hillfolk'. Skip forward to the introduction of the 3 3/16" 95/100 hp V8, did the first gear get a bit taller yet? Certainly there is a ratio or relationship between a vehicle's first gear and it's powerplant's HP./torque. Not sure what the ratio of that increase from 60 hp to 85 was, but 25% or so for the sake of argument. Now for this Sunday puzzler, think of what I am doing with this fairly heavy truck based woodie. I will be moving from a 221 cu in flattie to a 276 cu in. A good portion of the displacement increase is a direct result of longer leverage arm of that 4" stroke. Increased torque makes us hillfolk happy. While I do not know what HP my otherwise stock 276 will be making, I think it will be a substantial gain and in excess of 25% over the 221. Perhaps the stock first gear will be just right when spun by a flattie on steroids working through a smooth acting proper clutch. In closing.... Did a manual trans falcon wagon with a 170 cu in six have the same first gear ratio as one with a 289? Thanks in advance from the slopes of Mt Pickett
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
02-11-2024, 01:29 PM | #73 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
No expert here, but I think with the new motor you will have plenty of power even with the heavy body/chassis for it to make a nice driving "car". However, if you like to do any truckish activity, or even considering the hill you live on, the 4 speed may be worth your efforts. I believe you get a lower reverse with that option too.
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02-11-2024, 02:28 PM | #74 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
In the 1930s and 1940s Ford did not change the transmission ratio for different engine horsepower. Transmission ratios were changed with rear axle ratios. Typical Ford axle ratios 4.11 and 3.78 got paired with the transmission 2.82 in first gear set, the common "28 tooth". The 3.54 axle ratio got paired with the transmission 3.11 in first gear set, the "29 tooth". Your half ton probably has the 3.78 and 28 tooth combination. If you have a 29 tooth transmission set available I would swap that in. Either should be fine with the big flathead you are building along with a smooth clutch.
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02-11-2024, 08:01 PM | #75 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
How can I tell what axle ratio I have? Seems years ago I jacked up one side, turned the driveshaft one revolution and watched the upside wheel? That it?
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
02-11-2024, 09:59 PM | #76 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
Gary.....turn the wheel one revolution and count the turns of the driveshaft......about 3 3/4 turns is 3.78.....a little more than 4 is 4.11.......3 1/2 is 3.54.......Mark
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02-12-2024, 12:28 AM | #77 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
Thank you Mark. I will check it tomorrow and report back. The more info the better, as pretty soon I will have to make some decisions and the end result won't be known until I get in it and go for a drive.
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
02-12-2024, 06:27 PM | #78 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
I'll offer a small correction: when you jack up only one rear wheel you need to turn the wheel two times and count the driveshaft. The spider gears double wheel speed when only one wheel is turning.
I'm curious what you find. Around here I would expect 3.78:1, but typical equipment may be different in the northwest. |
02-13-2024, 02:07 AM | #79 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
Dang I didn't get to it today. My day job (hanging an 8' x 20' oil painting 8" off a living room wall) got in the way and now tomorrow morning we catch the 7am ferry over to 'America'. First order of business, an egg mcmuffin. Wednesday I work back in the shop so I will sneak down and jack up the ol' woodie and check that ratio.
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
02-13-2024, 03:56 AM | #80 |
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Re: Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup
GB. Jack up one wheel only, leave the other on the ground. Turn the raised wheel TWICE. Count the driveshaft revolutions. The number of turns equals the axle ratio.
I made a video years ago: https://youtu.be/bkvp3Fq21ZM |
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