Still won't start

[mike dixon]

Im havin the same problem, how to yu check for spark?

[Mitch//pa]

i think its no spark on 1,2,3, but gets it on 4
either way it could be a dist body possibly

how are you checking for spark?

[George Miller]

I,m sure you checked the point gap.

[700rpm]

I lean toward bad dist. body, or possibly bad lobe on the dist. cam, causing the points to break unevenly. Maybe a bad pigtail. Maybe a loose condenser. Something in the distributor, though. Easy to check.

[edmondclinton]

When you're checking for sparks, not just any ol' spark will do. You need a fat blue-white spark!

Make sure the engine is in a position where the points are closed. Turn on the ignition. Disconnect the coil wire from the dist. and hold the end just removed about 1/4 inch away from a head nut. Using a screwdriver or some other insulated tool, open the points. A fat blue-white spark should jump from the coil wire to the head nut if everything is healthy.

A thin yellowish spark is weak and is no good and of course no spark is most certainly no good.

Allow the points to snap closed if you want to repeat the process for another look.


If the gap is correct on your points I bet they are just oxidized and need cleaning. Points do that just from exposure to the air in the atmosphere. That's why it's best for people to go to the trouble to make sure the engine is in the correct position for the points to be closed when storing a car that will not be run for a long time.

It's also possible that your points may be pitted and burnt and several other things may be the cause of your problem as have already been mentioned. Come back for more instruction if you can't get it going.

[Charlie Stephens]

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Originally Posted by edmondclinton

When you're checking for sparks, not just any ol' spark will do. You need a fat blue-white spark!

Make sure the engine is in a position where the points are closed. Turn on the ignition. Disconnect the coil wire from the dist. and hold the end just removed about 1/4 inch away from a head nut. Using a screwdriver or some other insulated tool, open the points. A fat blue-white spark should jump from the coil wire to the head nut if everything is healthy.

A thin yellowish spark is weak and is no good and of course no spark is most certainly no good.

Allow the points to snap closed if you want to repeat the process for another look.


If the gap is correct on your points I bet they are just oxidized and need cleaning. Points do that just from exposure to the air in the atmosphere. That's why it's best for people to go to the trouble to make sure the engine is in the correct position for the points to be closed when storing a car that will not be run for a long time.

It's also possible that your points may be pitted and burnt and several other things may be the cause of your problem as have already been mentioned. Come back for more instruction if you can't get it going.

You forgot to mention to hold the coil wire with an insulated tool (or maybe your computer adjusted your punctuation). Of course he probably would have figured that out pretty quick. You probably don't need the insulated tool for the points as they are only 6 volts.

Charlie Stephens

[edmondclinton]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

You forgot to mention to hold the coil wire with an insulated tool (or maybe your computer adjusted your punctuation). Of course he probably would have figured that out pretty quick. You probably don't need the insulated tool for the points as they are only 6 volts.

Charlie Stephens

I don't like to use my fingers when fooling around with sparks and generally wear a pair of good gloves even to hold a coil wire by the insulation.

There used to be a mechanic at a shop here locally years ago who would check for spark, on any vehicle, by holding on to the end of the coil wire while the engine was turning over with the ignition on. If he wasn't satisfied by the amount of shock he received he considered the spark to be weak!

[Dbbc]

To answer some of the questios, the rotor does turn, I get a spark from the distributor cap to the head nut. I took the copper wire off the spark plug (new spark plugs, champion w16) and I have spark on 2,3,4 but not on one ( closest to radiator)

I will order a condensor and both plates in the distributor. By the way the copper end of the condensor where the screws that holds it, spins. Probably should't but I am not sure if it is defective. Should I use a upper plate with the modern condensor?

Lastly what would cause the negative side off the coil to be hot when the point are closed and the ignition on?

[edmondclinton]

Originally Posted by Dbbc

To answer some of the questios, the rotor does turn, I get a spark from the distributor cap to the head nut. I took the copper wire off the spark plug (new spark plugs, champion w16) and I have spark on 2,3,4 but not on one ( closest to radiator)

I will order a condensor and both plates in the distributor. By the way the copper end of the condensor where the screws that holds it, spins. Probably should't but I am not sure if it is defective. Should I use a upper plate with the modern condensor?

Lastly what would cause the negative side off the coil to be hot when the point are closed and the ignition on?

Do you get a consistent spark from the coil wire to a head nut every time your work the points? If so what does it look like?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Dbbc

To answer some of the questios, the rotor does turn, I get a spark from the distributor cap to the head nut. I took the copper wire off the spark plug (new spark plugs, champion w16) and I have spark on 2,3,4 but not on one ( closest to radiator)

I will order a condensor and both plates in the distributor. By the way the copper end of the condensor where the screws that holds it, spins. Probably should't but I am not sure if it is defective. Should I use a upper plate with the modern condensor?

Lastly what would cause the negative side off the coil to be hot when the point are closed and the ignition on?

The condenser is shot if the terminal spins. Be sure to use the insulating washer under the head of the terminal screw, or the screw may bottom out and turn the terminal instead of tightening on the strap.

When the points are closed and the key is on, you have about 4 amps going through the coil and that will heat it up. If it still heats up with the points open or the key off, then you have a problem, such as the ignition switch terminal touching the gas tank.

[pooch]

Originally Posted by mike dixon

Im havin the same problem, how to yu check for spark?

Flicking the points with a screwdriver may give you a false indication, as you may be covering up a bad or dirty set of points.

Just unclip the brass leads at the dizzy cap and move them about 1/8th inch away from terminal on cap.

Wind motor over, you should see a fat spark jumping across each gap.

This will prove spark as far as the plugs without dismantling anything.

[edmondclinton]

Originally Posted by pooch

Flicking the points with a screwdriver may give you a false indication, as you may be covering up a bad or dirty set of points.

How would you cover up the points if the blade was not in between the points?

[pooch]

Originally Posted by edmondclinton

How would you cover up the points if the blade was not in between the points?

If the points have dirty contacts and give no spark on their own, using a screwdriver can give a spark if all else is good.

The screwdriver makes the contact . not the points.

The actual correct way is the have the points closed and flick them open with a non conductive object.

[edmondclinton]

Originally Posted by pooch

If the points have dirty contacts and give no spark on their own, using a screwdriver can give a spark if all else is good.

The screwdriver makes the contact . not the points.

The actual correct way is the have the points closed and flick them open with a non conductive object.

Yes, I can see that. I use a screwdriver but I watch how I use it. Works fine.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by pooch

If the points have dirty contacts and give no spark on their own, using a screwdriver can give a spark if all else is good.

The screwdriver makes the contact . not the points.

The actual correct way is the have the points closed and flick them open with a non conductive object.

That's ONLY true if you are trying to show the ignition system is OK.

By stopping the engine with the points open, then shorting with a screwdriver I am showing the points need to be cleaned. This is for a no spark or poor spark condition, which is why the check is taking place most times.

[Dbbc]

Thank you all for all the suggestions. Just to recap.
The battery seems to be fine.
The wiring seems to be correct.
The coil sends a spark to the distributor (will double check for the strength of the spark and color). However when the ignition is on and the point are close the negative side of the coil is hot. (should be the positive side) Not sure why.
The rotor turn and the gap to the contact is 0.25. However it wobble. It should rest on the cam right, but it seems that it is not resting flat. The cam screw slot has some burs maybe it does not allow the rotor to seat flat.
The point gap have been sanded lightly and adjusted to 0.18.
The distributor contact have been sanded lightly and have been check for continuity and they all checked out. Found a crack on the body near the external contact that goes to cylinder #4.
The inside of the distributor is a little rough and hold the body (metal part exposed once I removed both upper and lower plate) is a little rusty. Can I just sand it?
The condenser copper end spins (where the screws attach to it through the bottom plate)

So I am ordering a bunch of parts to replace the coil, the distributor cap, body, both plate, the points and the condenser.

While I am waiting for the parts. I have one more questions. What would be the symptom if the distributor condenser is not working properly? And still trying to figure out the coil issue.

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by Dbbc

Thank you all for all the suggestions. Just to recap.
The battery seems to be fine.
The wiring seems to be correct.
The coil sends a spark to the distributor (will double check for the strength of the spark and color). However when the ignition is on and the point are close the negative side of the coil is hot. (should be the positive side) Not sure why.
The rotor turn and the gap to the contact is 0.25. However it wobble. It should rest on the cam right, but it seems that it is not resting flat. The cam screw slot has some burs maybe it does not allow the rotor to seat flat.
The point gap have been sanded lightly and adjusted to 0.18.
The distributor contact have been sanded lightly and have been check for continuity and they all checked out. Found a crack on the body near the external contact that goes to cylinder #4.
The inside of the distributor is a little rough and hold the body (metal part exposed once I removed both upper and lower plate) is a little rusty. Can I just sand it?
The condenser copper end spins (where the screws attach to it through the bottom plate)

So I am ordering a bunch of parts to replace the coil, the distributor cap, body, both plate, the points and the condenser.

While I am waiting for the parts. I have one more questions. What would be the symptom if the distributor condenser is not working properly? And still trying to figure out the coil issue.

If your system is positive ground then the negative (-) side of the
coil should be hot all the time as the black wire comes from the battery.

Bob

[edmondclinton]

Originally Posted by Dbbc

While I am waiting for the parts. I have one more questions. What would be the symptom if the distributor condenser is not working properly? And still trying to figure out the coil issue.

When the condenser is bad the engine will miss out, buck and backfire. In other words as has already been said, weak or poor or no spark.

Two tests can be made on the condenser:

Using a piece of wire touching the center or output of the condenser, charge up the condenser by touching the condenser's case to the positive side of the battery and the piece of wire to the negative battery terminal. Allow the condenser to charge for a few seconds, then quickly disconnect and lightly touch the wire to the condenser case. If you observe a spark as the wire gets right near the case, you may assume that the condenser is OK.

You can also check a condenser with a condenser tester to measure capacity. Capacitance should be 0.3 microfarads. Also, using an ohmmeter measure the resistance between the wire or center and the case which should not be less than say 5 million ohms