8BA in '33 pickup

[PhoenixFear]

I finally have my '53 engine ready to put back into my '33 truck. The specs are: '53 engine, '39 trans, 78- water pumps (which I've verified are the same mounting as the 8RT pumps I'll install and are recommended). I've had a bear of a time putting it back in. I took out the previous homemade mounts. The crossmember might be hacked up, I'm not sure. This was originally a 4-cyl truck, I'm not sure if that affects it or not.
After talking with quite a few people and getting a few different answers I decided it was best to put boxing plates in the frame and install engine mounts. The mounts and plates were bought from Chassis Engineering. The instructions the kit comes with has a bunch of various measurements, all of which don't match even close to what I have. I don't think my frame is tweaked. The kit is for a '33-34 frame with stock crossmembers and stock frame, and the mounts are for a Flathead engine.
Anyhow, the mounts are approximately 3" from the center of the hole to the edge. My old mounts are 3 1/8" from the center of the hole to the edge. In theory they should just fit in, but unfortunately that doesn't take into account the width of the frame since the plates are in. I'm wondering if or how anyone has installed an 8BA engine into this type of frame? I'm debating cutting down the mounts to size but I'm afraid that option won't work. I've seen a 59A engine successfully installed in a '34 PU but his crossmember wasn't hacked up, the mounts bolted to the back of the crossmember. I'm stuck on what to do here. Thanks.
Here's some pics of the engine in, as you can probably see it is touching the firewall and I'm not sure how high or low it should be, should it be level with the frame or the ground, etc.?

[Straightpipes]

Here is a pic of my 8BA in a 34 pickup. It's not a detailed picture but you may be able to see what I did. I used rectangular steel tubing and welded frame extensions right off the frame rails not bothering at all with the crossmember mounts. This also solves the problem of crossmember clearance with the crank pulley. The engine will set a little higher than stock. When you mount the transmission you must shim the transmission mount so that you have the driveshaft aligned with the rear.
The torque tube dictates where the engine will set so the engine to firewall clearance id tight but not touching.
Notice that I put a fan in there. The 33/34 engine compartment is the smallest of all the Fords so this swap is a bit of a chore. The 8BA is quite a bit longer than the 59A. Also I used a F-1 truck oilpan and bellhousing.

[Straightpipes]

Pic I hope

[rotorwrench]

The pulley sheaves will either have to be changed or go with F1 pumps unless you are going to change over to a front mounted distributor. The early pump belts were much closer to the block than the 8BA types due to the side mounted distributor. The 8BA can be converted to work with the old crab type distributor, 78 pumps, center port heads, and one of the long snout crankshaft pulleys. You may have to use the generator mounted fan in there though. I don't know if the 59A type fan will fit or no. If not, the crank pulley can have the front sheave milled off then mount one of the old generators with fan.

[PhoenixFear]

I'll probably use an electric fan in this truck so that shouldn't be an issue there. I have seen a truck with an 8BA engine in it mounted flush with the top of the rails, and in the instructions it does say to mount the engine mounts flush with the top. However this will put my engine really high up it seems. Originally it had Merc 0CM pumps on it which sit a ton lower than the 78/8RT pumps. I believe the trans is mounted where it should be, but it just baffles me that the engine hits the firewall. I looked at a guy's '34 PU and he had no clearance issues at all and was using a '39 trans, however he had a 59A engine. He thought perhaps the bellhousing on the 8BA engine was shorter than the 59A cast-in piece. The options I can figure are to either cut down my new mounts, or somehow find a stock crossmember and cut up the pieces I'm missing on my crossmember. Then mount the engine using the early V8 brackets.
Here's a few pics I found:




I also found a thread on here regarding this, however it seems that some of the engines hit the firewall and some clear it fine. I'm not sure how that works.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24418

[FlatheadTed]

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I have removed some pieces of pipe 2" of the mount holes on frames I have worked on ,2" seems to be the hight you need above the old mount position . 4 cylinder cars had a shorter drive shaft , The position it was in worked OK ,You could use the bits of angle that was on it and tidy them up round them of ,mounted of the front cross member ,Or for looks on the side with the new ones but boxing would be needed .

[PhoenixFear]

Hm, I wonder if I can simply get a V8 driveshaft and mount the transmission farther forward? Then again I have a later rear end in it I believe, I don't know if that changes things or not. The transmission crossmember has been bolted on, I'm not sure if someone just ground out the rivets and stuck bolts in or if they completely put the crossmember in a different location but it doesn't look hacked up.

[FlatheadTed]

Your engine looks way to far back ,set it up with your Radiator in place ,work from the front back .shouldn't need to box it the weight of the 8Ba is close to the 34 ,

[PhoenixFear]

The only reason I'm boxing it is because I didn't think I'd have much choice. My crossmember is hacked up where the original motor mounts would be and the aftermarket mounts all require boxing to use. I'll give Chassis Engineering a call tomorrow and see if they can help. The guy who machined my engine said I'd probably need boxing plates as well. I'll try to see what I can do about moving it forward but that means I'll need to move the transmission farther forward as well.

[Straightpipes]

If you are using a torque tube then the engine has to set where it's at. If it was a 4 cyl I think it is different length. That is why you are hitting the firewall.
you can't put a fan on the crank pulley unless the fan is 3 inches in diameter.. Electric is a good idea for this.

I've got a complete 33/34 crossmember which was cut out of a frame by cutting the frame X rails so it has not been cut on. probably cost a fortune for shipping.

[PhoenixFear]

Would swapping torque tubes do anything or is it possible? I could perhaps measure the torque tube length and compare it to a V8 tube, however I don't know what length a V8 tube is.

[FlatheadTed]

A stock 34 one is 1.470 mm from flange to the beginning of the bell ,I have 32 one or four cylinder one, thats 1300.

[PhoenixFear]

Thanks, I'll go measure the torque tube and compare.

[rotorwrench]

As far as the banjo rear axle, You would be better off with the later axles made from 35 on. 1941 is the last narrow version. The 1942 models went to the wider rear axle through 48. Dick Spadaro has a real nice tube drive shaft kit that can be cut any length needed then welded up. The torque tubes can be cut back by the flange. If you can find a machine shop with a big lathe, they can do a tidy job of it and accurately prep the flange to be rewelded.

It's too bad your front crossmember was hacked. The old front mounts will fit all the different flathead V8s. 49 to 51 Mercury pumps can be utilized to lower it down quite a bit. The early 49 pumps had the big sheaves like the pickup but the later ones are all narrow belt types. You may need spacers other than the Mercury U-type ones but that wouldn't be too hard to fab something to fit.

[1931 flamingo]

I don't understand the need to box the frame. You could have probably gotten away with just welding those new mounts in. I did a 32 back in 61 and used the hurst style frame mounts with the hurst front mount W/OUT boxing frame. No problems. Just wondering.
Paul in CT

[PhoenixFear]

The reason behind boxing the frame was that the mounts I bought said they'll only work with a boxed frame. I also called Speedway and they confirmed the same thing. Most people I asked on how to do this correctly couldn't give me a good answer so at the time I figured this was my only choice. I wish the crossmember wasn't hacked up but there's a lot of questionable stuff in this truck that I'm trying to clean up.
I called Chassis Engineering again and they said the mounts will need to be chopped down to work, and also they like to have the tailshaft pointing down about 3 degrees so that's why the engine needs to sit so high I guess.

[PhoenixFear]

Ok I measured the torque tube from the beginning of the bell to the flange. It comes out to 57.5 or so inches. 1470mm to inches is 57.874. I think I have the V8 torque tube.
However one other thing I noticed was the transmission crossmember has two extra threaded holes. I am wondering if the trans can possibly be moved up to these holes. It is about 2 1/4" forward, perfect enough so that the engine can still sit in the frame without touching the firewall. The only problem I could see myself having is the crank pulley hitting the crank hole on the crossmember.

[Barn Junk]

The rear trans mount is not a 33-34 design but from a 42-48 pass car. It is bolted directly to the cross member and has no provision for rubber vibration damping. Not good. The center cross member looks to have been adapted from something else.

[FlatheadTed]

The rear cross member looks stock 34 , you can see the hand brake rod going through it ,just move the trans to the forward holes ,Most of the time for this conversion you need to do something with the pulley ,like lift the motor at the front ,

[rotorwrench]

The problem with the 8BA is it's longer from front to rear due mostly to the Holley Load-A-Matic distributor they chose to use. Long snout cranks have been around since 39 or so. The crankshafts before that were shorter and just had a single pulley sheave. If you change all the frontal accessories you can "shorten" the engine back to the pre 8BA specs. They are really a problem in the Model A cars. The earlier engines with the generator mounted fan are the shortest. If it won't shoe horn between the front cross member and the firewall, Something will need to be changed on one end or the other to get it in there.

That rear mount could use some cleaning up too. It may work in a pinch but it wouldn't be good for the long haul. It really should be isolation mounted with either the pre 37 rear transmission rubber mount ring or use the 37 & later rubber padded yoke mount but a solid mount is not good.