31 A Submerged above Intake in Salt Water Thanks to "Sandy"

[xkeots]

Please Help!

Huricane Sandy had my Model A sitting in salt water mixed with oil just above the intake manifold.
I am sort of lucky that every year for the past 6 I have coated the under side of my 31 Model A with either POR-15 or Eastwoods Rust Encapsulator then a coat of Krylon semi Black. That saved my underside.
I went by the manuals and drained washed out the rear and tranny with Kerosene then refilled with Oil.
I dropped the exhaust and poured out the water and have another on the way.
On the motor I rebuilt the carb and drained out 10 qts of salt water mixed with oil. I took out all plugs and filled chambers with PB Blaster and then changed the oil twice. I replaced the starter and I started it up for 5 minutes and the water was steaming out white smoke. I then drained the oil and it was white, so I still have some water inside.
I wanted to know is I can drop the oil pan and oil pump while the motor is still in the car, clean it, replace the gaskets and reinstall?
This way I can bring the oil pan to my Transmission shop and have them run it through their oil bath cleaner and get out all of the crud and I can clean out the oil pump in petrol.
The insurance company totaled out the car but let me buy it back.
I lost my father 2 years ago and this is the only thing I have from him so I must get it right.
I have a new wiring harness, generator, hoses, clutch kit, brake rebuild kit, interior all ready for replacing. Most of the paint is still great.
I have already rebuilt the carb, distributor, coil, starter motor and pressure washed and steamed out the seams and between body and frame.
As money comes in I buy new parts that might be affected in the future and I have soaked all moving parts in PB blaster, WD 40 and lithium grease.
It is the inner motor that I need to clean so please let me know about oil pan and pump. (No water in rumble seat)

Thanks very much
Jack Miller
(Late) 1931 Ford Model A 5 WDW Coupe

PS: What is the best cleaner to get the oil out of my radiator coils and off of the fenders? I bought Dawn and I was going to lightly pressure wash with Dawn. I have washed it down twice so far.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Hi Jack and welcome to Fordbarn. I trust you have seen the similar posting where this is currently being discussed?

Dawn soap will do a good job of cutting the oily fim you are describing. The same would apply with the radiator exterior. You might consider using a foaming degreaser (i.e.: Gunk) to pre-soak. We have discussed engines and the affects in the other posting so you might want to read the advice posted there.

[James Rogers]

You can remove the pan and pump while the engine is in the car. It is not a fun job but it is not too bad. When you remove the pan watch out for the pump, it will fall out and might hit you in the head. You might want to remove the valve cover and rinse it out with kerosene or diesel and check for silt in it. Since you have already run it, I don't think you can do anything about any silt that got into the oil tubes and won't know if any damage is done there till the mains go out from abrasion. Dawn is probably the best thing to use to clean the oil from the outside of the car and radiator. Use plenty with as hot of water as you can stand and a wheel brush on the rad and a soft body brush anywhere else. Rinse with a plain water hose. A pressure washer might do more damage than the oil.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Be careful of a pressure washer close to the radiator fins. I often use my air compressor, syphon gun, and gas to clean parts of oil and grease.

[J Franklin]

http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89814

[xkeots]

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Originally Posted by James Rogers

You can remove the pan and pump while the engine is in the car. It is not a fun job but it is not too bad. When you remove the pan watch out for the pump, it will fall out and might hit you in the head. You might want to remove the valve cover and rinse it out with kerosene or diesel and check for silt in it. Since you have already run it, I don't think you can do anything about any silt that got into the oil tubes and won't know if any damage is done there till the mains go out from abrasion. Dawn is probably the best thing to use to clean the oil from the outside of the car and radiator. Use plenty with as hot of water as you can stand and a wheel brush on the rad and a soft body brush anywhere else. Rinse with a plain water hose. A pressure washer might do more damage than the oil.

Sorry to ask, but which is the valve cover
I rebuilt this motor in the 70's and due to age I forgot
I can look it up when I am home
But I am planning on dropping the oil pan and not jacking the car up
So that will work.......Thanks
What would you use internally to clean crank, pistons, etc while pan is down?
Gasoline in a spray gun? A few cans of WD 40 with a catch pan underneath?
I have never been in this situation before
I have to re wire the car first as it was sitting in salt water for a while
I had to shut the engine as the starter was turning on the second re start
I have a complete harness home that I will start tomorrow

Thank you
Jack Miller
1931 Model A 5 window coupe

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by xkeots

Sorry to ask, but which is the valve cover
I rebuilt this motor in the 70's and due to age I forgot
I can look it up when I am home
But I am planning on dropping the oil pan and not jacking the car up
So that will work.......Thanks
What would you use internally to clean crank, pistons, etc while pan is down?
Gasoline in a spray gun? A few cans of WD 40 with a catch pan underneath?
I have never been in this situation before
I have to re wire the car first as it was sitting in salt water for a while
I had to shut the engine as the starter was turning on the second re start
I have a complete harness home that I will start tomorrow

Thank you
Jack Miller
1931 Model A 5 window coupe

The valve cover is on the passenger side behind the carb and can be removed by removing the carb and unbolting it. You may find plenty to clean out behind it. You can use dawn of kerosene to clean any of the internal parts. If you use dawn and water, use kerosene as a final wash to remove the water. It may take several oil changes to get all the water out. Hopefully no silt got in and the bearings will be spared.

[28RPU]

I hate to be the Debbie Downer here but I have seen what salt water does to boats and their metal parts.
I would completely disassemble the whole car just like you are doing a restoration and clean out every nook and cavity because salt dissolves in water and everywhere water could seep there will be salt eating away at your car.I don't think anything you can do to it with it assembled will save it. A few years down the road and it will be eaten up. Just look at how road salt gets to cars. Being submerged in virtually the same stuff will only make it worse.My 2¢

[Pete]

28RPU has it exactly.
In the long run I don't think you are going to have much luck with a partial clean up as you are talking about.
I have dealt with cars that have been submerged several times. There is a lot of abrasive in the water and you have to completely tear down every part in the car to get it all out. That includes all of the suspension and running gear parts. Everything that had water against it.

[Mike Peters]

On the lighter side, if the water is not too deep, surfing is always a fun flood option!!!

[columbiA]

Befor you drop the pan,unscrew the 1/8" pipe plug in the block below the carb & above the pan flange.Screw in a 3/8"NF bolt until it contacts the oil pump hsg & it will keep the O P from dropping down.Remember to replace the bolt with the original plug when you put it all back together.When removing pan ,it will be much easier if you have the front axle several inches off the floor.Also when removing front pan bolts they will be easier to get at if you turn the wheels all the way to R or L.If the pan comes off without damage to gaskets,you could likely reuse it with athin coat of grease on the gaskets & a dab of Permatex in the corners.To remove the dipper tray,you could remove the drain plug &a rod on an angle & knock the tray out.To install the pan,use 4 headless bolts about 2" long to guide the pan in place.

[Garage Dog]

Good luck!

[xkeots]

Originally Posted by columbiA

Befor you drop the pan,unscrew the 1/8" pipe plug in the block below the carb & above the pan flange.Screw in a 3/8"NF bolt until it contacts the oil pump hsg & it will keep the O P from dropping down.Remember to replace the bolt with the original plug when you put it all back together.When removing pan ,it will be much easier if you have the front axle several inches off the floor.Also when removing front pan bolts they will be easier to get at if you turn the wheels all the way to R or L.If the pan comes off without damage to gaskets,you could likely reuse it with athin coat of grease on the gaskets & a dab of Permatex in the corners.To remove the dipper tray,you could remove the drain plug &a rod on an angle & knock the tray out.To install the pan,use 4 headless bolts about 2" long to guide the pan in place.

Thanks for that tip!
I should be receiving a new 2 piece gasket and front and rear bearing end cap gaskets
I will use peramatex gray for a sealer
Do you have any idea ( I can't find it) the bolt torque on the oil pan bolts?

Thanks
Jack

[Louis]

The car will be nothing but problems in the years to come due to the salt water, I would let it go as soon as possible, This is just my per. opinion.

[columbiA]

For bolt torque on pan bolts- dont use a torque wrench! Use a 3/8" drive speed handle or ratchet to snug them up.You dont need a wrench more than 6" long to tighten 5/16" bolts.The only place I bother to use a T wrench on an A is the cyl head.After engine has been warmed up well,check the pan bolts again for tightness.

[dumb person]

i had salt crystals leak out of the pores in the metal of an axle that had been used in a boat trailer after soaking it in oil for a few weeks so there is hope. Soak it and wipe them away, soak it longer and clean it well.

[xkeots]

Originally Posted by Louis

The car will be nothing but problems in the years to come due to the salt water, I would let it go as soon as possible, This is just my per. opinion.

I have been restoring cars since 1965
But, I have never been in a situation line this
I do feel that all early cars if they were coated with undercoating inside the doors and inside steel, all under steel maintained and coated with rust prevent, por15, and a rust oleum top coat the body will be fine after a few good scrub downs
It's the moving parts that I am a little concerned about
I will drop the engine pan, clean it and get all of the dampness out
All rubber parts and brake parts will be rebuilt. The whole harness and all things electric replaced
I feel confident
Logically, this car has been driving this earth for 81 years and who knows what it has gone through before I was born
I have to replace the clutch and a new interior
I do not think that there will be any salt damage in the future
I lost my 1988 Porsche 911 Carrera convertible that I bought new and only had 15,000 original miles
That car can't be fixed due to all the electrical and semi modern additions that will just rot in the future, that hurts as it became 25 years and I lost a brand new classic
My Model A has a shot once I clean out the engines internals

Thanks
Jack
1931 Model A

[xkeots]

How about the un scrupulous dealers who had hundreds of brand new cars under salt water?
I have heard of some shipping cars out of state and or repairing them and prepping for sale to you and me
That is worse than buying a modal a that was under salt water
The model a has a better shot

[1928Pickuppain]

Don't let these guys freek you out. Drop the pans scrape out the shit wash with gas spray the crank and all interal parts with degreeser and then brake cleaner till your spotless. Button back up poor oil in her and start and drive. in regards to salt on the body go out to a beach on a lake drive in and out of the watter lett that fresh water get in all the nooks and cranny's and then let it pool and pull any salt out. Then power wash out side really good as you said you already have it undercoated nice and good. In regards to the interior I'd pull everything out and powere wash it all rub dawn soap in with good soft brush to get oil out then power wash again let it dry out in really hot room id also power wash inside of doors and floors any everywhere elce inside just to make sure all salt if out then I'd just reassemble when everythings good and dry and be done with it i really wouldent waist my time replacing the wireing there's so few wires that it's not like the salt really has any were to go just wash out your light swich assembly and sprey with silicone sprey. Rember if salt can go on it can come off no big deal little extra work but no big deal. My old jeep was a katrena car bought it from a friend down in new orlens for $800 when it showed up it was still filled with sand. Did all I just described to it and it treated me good. blew the motor runing 35" tires with a six inch lift with 410 gearing going 75 wide open from Pa back to Ma trying to keep up with my 4x4
club on an old 4 banger. she's been sitting in my back yard as a parts car for 4 years now with no roof an is only now starting to show signs of any rust and only on the body. The frame is as solid as can be. So don't worrie just get that salt off and out asap

[dwollam]

Personally, if I was going to replace the clutch which means pulling the rear end, I would go ahead and pull the engine, then clean it. It would be alot easier upside down on an engine stand. If you are going that far, why not go all the way to keep your keepsake as nice as you can. No more cost, just some labor.