The Ford Barn

RandyLPeterson · 09-25-2011, 10:29 PM

I have a customer bringing me his 1930 Coupe for a Clutch as it is really jumpy.. My question what is the best way to do a clutch.. Removing the rear end or removing the engine.. Customer would prefer I not remove his engine.. And also from a first timers stand point how long should this job take me.. THANKS
Randy L Peterson

asapguy · 09-25-2011, 10:57 PM

Remove the rear end & transmission. Take the brake rods lose at the cross shaft. The shock links need to be removed. Pulling the rear end isn't hard. Try to get a old trans input shaft to align the new clutch.

rogerkb1936 · 09-25-2011, 11:03 PM

My preference is, by far, to remove the eng, with trans in one piece. If customer is afraid of damage to fenders, remove them. Not a big deal. You will have to figger out what is causing the chatter, easier with eng out. Ultimately, it is a personal preference thing I suppose. good luck.

Kurt in NJ · 09-25-2011, 11:06 PM

The flat rate time from an old Motors book is 5.4 hours, 6.2 if you replace the ring gear( remove flywheel)---add for rusted, damaged hardware ---

If it is a car that just has a bad clutch ---I would tell my boss-I want 8 hours, more for additional work --but if it is an old tired car that just got a "paint" restoration you may end up restoring everything you take apart and the time and parts can easily double or more ---

That flat rate time included replacing the linings on the disc--you just got the 2 linings and rivits

I would take out the rear---I would consider it to be less invasive, less chance of damaging paint.

sonny30coupe · 09-25-2011, 11:34 PM

When I replaced my engine I pulled the engine. I have since started a full restorastion on the '30 coupe. After seeing what it took to remove the rearend, I think I would be inlcined to remove the rearend if I had to do it over again and were replaceing the clutch. The paint thing is my reason. When I was removeing the engine last time it was an old paint job. Next time that will not be the case. JMO Sonny

larrys40 · 09-26-2011, 12:14 AM

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Randy,

I would remove the rear axle and trans. When replacing the clutch and pressure plate ( assuming the flywheel has been serviced/resurfaced) make sure you adjust the clutch fingers. There is a procedure in the ford trans & clutch service manual. Most don't do this and when you do you will have a smooth correctly operating clutch.

Set all fingers for 5/8 from cover surface. I use a jig I made which makes it quick.
You can use a steel rule and the depth of a 6 inch caliper to measure.
Larry S

Patrick L. · 09-26-2011, 05:36 AM

I agree with removing the rear end and also with checking pressure plate finger adjustment, this should be done with flywheel removed and disk and plate installed.. Height should be .625" [5/8"].. And check flywheel run-out along with flywheel cover alignment.. This will keep your feetz sticking out from under the car for quite a while..

Pilotdave · 09-26-2011, 08:29 AM

Thought I had read somewhere that the bell housing can be misaligned with the crankshaft and thus be a cause of clutch chatter. Mentioned this to a local Model A mechanic who insisted that there's no way to shim the bell housing.......I distinctly recall seeing pictures of small shims that you insert at various bolt points to cure this. Am I dreaming?

Tom Wesenberg · 09-26-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotdave

Thought I had read somewhere that the bell housing can be misaligned with the crankshaft and thus be a cause of clutch chatter. Mentioned this to a local Model A mechanic who insisted that there's no way to shim the bell housing.......I distinctly recall seeing pictures of small shims that you insert at various bolt points to cure this. Am I dreaming?

The flywheel housing has shims on the top two mounts, where the throttle linkage mounts. This corrects for the gasket thickness mainly, but can be used to correct some flywheel housing warpage, if present. As far as shimming the clutch housing to the flywheel housing, there are no shims.

Patrick L. · 09-26-2011, 08:45 AM

There are 2 .010" shims that should be installed between the engine and bellhousing.. But, apparently the clutch cover/bellhousing can 'warp' over the years causing misalignment.. I think the spec should be/is .006 or .007".. Rather than remove the housing and have it cut I 'shimmed' and filed it to get it from .032" down to .008".. Between that and adjusting the pressure plate finger height the clutch is nice and smooth..

RandyLPeterson · 09-26-2011, 12:47 PM

Got er all apart.. The Clutch Disc was shiny and glazed.. The Flywheel was blue and had some head checking. Pressure plate had some Hot spots.. So got the customer to order me a new pressure plate and sent him to get the flywheel machined.. Also had him get me a ring gear Pilot bearing and Ujoint gasket set.. SO in a few days perhaps I can start putting it together.. I will check the clutch fingers and make sure they are adjusted correctly.. THANKS GUYS
Randy L Peterson

johnsor · 09-26-2011, 02:35 PM

I have removed my transmission twice this year (for reasons I won't go into) by dropping the rear end and leaving the spring attached. Its much easier than engine removal. However the second time, I also dropped the brake cross shaft as it makes for more room for the attached U-joint to clear without tipping the transmission too much and putting a strain on the clutch plate. The two .010" shims behind the upper bolts of the flywheel houseing and engine block are important.

Rainmaker Ron · 09-26-2011, 04:53 PM

Randy, You are fortunate that the customer hired you to change the clutch, that is pretty straight forward and it seems you are well on the way to accomplishing that mission. If he had asked you to eliminate the clutch chatter the work is a little more iffy. A new clutch does not always fix chatter. Gotta run, more later.
Rainmaker Ron

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 09-26-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerkb1936

My preference is, by far, to remove the eng, with trans in one piece. If customer is afraid of damage to fenders, remove them. Not a big deal. You will have to figger out what is causing the chatter, easier with eng out. Ultimately, it is a personal preference thing I suppose. good luck.

In my opinion it is on a '30!! How are you gonna deal with the apron under the firewall?

My vote is also to remove the rear end in situations like this. Too many chances for damage R&R-ing the engine. Most people also don't realize that if you have an original ignition switch with the head clamp, you are asking for problems when that is loosened. Also when old hoses are involved, time can be spent trying to get them to re-seal. It takes time to drain fluids and refill. Also, what about engine pans? Hood re-alignment?? Headlight wiring???

Rainmaker Ron · 09-26-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

In my opinion it is on a '30!! How are you gonna deal with the apron under the firewall?

My vote is also to remove the rear end in situations like this. Too many chances for damage R&R-ing the engine. Most people also don't realize that if you have an original ignition switch with the head clamp, you are asking for problems when that is loosened. Also when old hoses are involved, time can be spent trying to get them to re-seal. It takes time to drain fluids and refill. Also, what about engine pans? Hood re-alignment?? Headlight wiring???

Right on Brent, untill you have been there a few times it is hard to realise the can of worms that is opened. I suspect that many times the person giving the advice hasn't really walked the walk. Things go in cycles on the board, The past several months if you mention clutch someone will jump in and reccomend "messing" with the fingers. Mercy!
Rainmaker Ron

Ned · 09-27-2011, 09:53 AM

If you don't need to take the rear end apart, take the nuts off of the u-bolts that attach the rear spring to the frame and pull the spring with the rear. That way you don't need a spring spreader. I usually take the rear wheels off, lower the whole works and use a couple of 2x4s as tracks for the brake drums.

If I am by myself, I use a rag to hold the splined floppy part of the drive shaft up so until it starts to go into the transmission ouput, then pull the rag out.

Rokkern · 05-31-2013, 06:53 PM

I'm just about to finish off this exactly job on my newly bought 31 tudor. Wish I'd seem this post first!! Asked a couple of locals and they both said it is easier to remove the engine. What an extreme hassle that has been, every bolt either rusted or hard to get in and out.
Next time I will definetely remove the axle. Let's just hope that is a few years from now!

George Miller · 05-31-2013, 07:31 PM

It is easier and faster to remove the rear end to replace a clutch.

KR500 · 06-10-2013, 01:10 AM

Since you are going to get the flywheel reground, secure a couple of 4inch long fine thread bolts and cut the hex off. Makes the 67 pound flywheel a bit easier to get off and on. Clean the area of the outer lip of the flywheel housing as the bellhousing seats into this area. No amount of bolt tightening will put the bellhousing seated well if its full of road dirt. This is a good time to replace a worn pedal shaft or clutch fork shaft that is worn and bushings.

09-25-2011, 10:29 PM	#1
RandyLPeterson Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Flandreau,South Dakota Posts: 22	Model A clutch install Questions I have a customer bringing me his 1930 Coupe for a Clutch as it is really jumpy.. My question what is the best way to do a clutch.. Removing the rear end or removing the engine.. Customer would prefer I not remove his engine.. And also from a first timers stand point how long should this job take me.. THANKS Randy L Peterson

09-25-2011, 10:57 PM	#2
asapguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Snohomish Wa. Posts: 389	Re: Model A clutch install Questions Remove the rear end & transmission. Take the brake rods lose at the cross shaft. The shock links need to be removed. Pulling the rear end isn't hard. Try to get a old trans input shaft to align the new clutch.

09-25-2011, 11:03 PM	#3
rogerkb1936 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 829	Re: Model A clutch install Questions My preference is, by far, to remove the eng, with trans in one piece. If customer is afraid of damage to fenders, remove them. Not a big deal. You will have to figger out what is causing the chatter, easier with eng out. Ultimately, it is a personal preference thing I suppose. good luck.

09-25-2011, 11:06 PM	#4
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,185	Re: Model A clutch install Questions The flat rate time from an old Motors book is 5.4 hours, 6.2 if you replace the ring gear( remove flywheel)---add for rusted, damaged hardware --- If it is a car that just has a bad clutch ---I would tell my boss-I want 8 hours, more for additional work --but if it is an old tired car that just got a "paint" restoration you may end up restoring everything you take apart and the time and parts can easily double or more --- That flat rate time included replacing the linings on the disc--you just got the 2 linings and rivits I would take out the rear---I would consider it to be less invasive, less chance of damaging paint.

09-25-2011, 11:34 PM	#5
sonny30coupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kansas City KS Posts: 255	Re: Model A clutch install Questions When I replaced my engine I pulled the engine. I have since started a full restorastion on the '30 coupe. After seeing what it took to remove the rearend, I think I would be inlcined to remove the rearend if I had to do it over again and were replaceing the clutch. The paint thing is my reason. When I was removeing the engine last time it was an old paint job. Next time that will not be the case. JMO Sonny

09-26-2011, 12:14 AM	#6
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Model A clutch install Questions Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Randy, I would remove the rear axle and trans. When replacing the clutch and pressure plate ( assuming the flywheel has been serviced/resurfaced) make sure you adjust the clutch fingers. There is a procedure in the ford trans & clutch service manual. Most don't do this and when you do you will have a smooth correctly operating clutch. Set all fingers for 5/8 from cover surface. I use a jig I made which makes it quick. You can use a steel rule and the depth of a 6 inch caliper to measure. Larry S

09-26-2011, 05:36 AM	#7
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Model A clutch install Questions I agree with removing the rear end and also with checking pressure plate finger adjustment, this should be done with flywheel removed and disk and plate installed.. Height should be .625" [5/8"].. And check flywheel run-out along with flywheel cover alignment.. This will keep your feetz sticking out from under the car for quite a while..

09-26-2011, 08:29 AM	#8
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,230	Re: Model A clutch install Questions Thought I had read somewhere that the bell housing can be misaligned with the crankshaft and thus be a cause of clutch chatter. Mentioned this to a local Model A mechanic who insisted that there's no way to shim the bell housing.......I distinctly recall seeing pictures of small shims that you insert at various bolt points to cure this. Am I dreaming?

09-26-2011, 08:45 AM	#10
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Model A clutch install Questions There are 2 .010" shims that should be installed between the engine and bellhousing.. But, apparently the clutch cover/bellhousing can 'warp' over the years causing misalignment.. I think the spec should be/is .006 or .007".. Rather than remove the housing and have it cut I 'shimmed' and filed it to get it from .032" down to .008".. Between that and adjusting the pressure plate finger height the clutch is nice and smooth..

09-26-2011, 12:47 PM	#11
RandyLPeterson Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Flandreau,South Dakota Posts: 22	Re: Model A clutch install Questions Got er all apart.. The Clutch Disc was shiny and glazed.. The Flywheel was blue and had some head checking. Pressure plate had some Hot spots.. So got the customer to order me a new pressure plate and sent him to get the flywheel machined.. Also had him get me a ring gear Pilot bearing and Ujoint gasket set.. SO in a few days perhaps I can start putting it together.. I will check the clutch fingers and make sure they are adjusted correctly.. THANKS GUYS Randy L Peterson

09-26-2011, 02:35 PM	#12
johnsor Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spooner, Wisconsin Posts: 242	Re: Model A clutch install Questions I have removed my transmission twice this year (for reasons I won't go into) by dropping the rear end and leaving the spring attached. Its much easier than engine removal. However the second time, I also dropped the brake cross shaft as it makes for more room for the attached U-joint to clear without tipping the transmission too much and putting a strain on the clutch plate. The two .010" shims behind the upper bolts of the flywheel houseing and engine block are important.

09-26-2011, 04:53 PM	#13
Rainmaker Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Peoria IL Posts: 282	Re: Model A clutch install Questions Randy, You are fortunate that the customer hired you to change the clutch, that is pretty straight forward and it seems you are well on the way to accomplishing that mission. If he had asked you to eliminate the clutch chatter the work is a little more iffy. A new clutch does not always fix chatter. Gotta run, more later. Rainmaker Ron

09-27-2011, 09:53 AM	#16
Ned Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Maryland Posts: 51	Re: Model A clutch install Questions If you don't need to take the rear end apart, take the nuts off of the u-bolts that attach the rear spring to the frame and pull the spring with the rear. That way you don't need a spring spreader. I usually take the rear wheels off, lower the whole works and use a couple of 2x4s as tracks for the brake drums. If I am by myself, I use a rag to hold the splined floppy part of the drive shaft up so until it starts to go into the transmission ouput, then pull the rag out.

05-31-2013, 06:53 PM	#17
Rokkern Junior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 26	Re: Model A clutch install Questions I'm just about to finish off this exactly job on my newly bought 31 tudor. Wish I'd seem this post first!! Asked a couple of locals and they both said it is easier to remove the engine. What an extreme hassle that has been, every bolt either rusted or hard to get in and out. Next time I will definetely remove the axle. Let's just hope that is a few years from now!

05-31-2013, 07:31 PM	#18
George Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 2,975	Re: Model A clutch install Questions It is easier and faster to remove the rear end to replace a clutch.

06-10-2013, 01:10 AM	#19
KR500 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Addison,ll. Posts: 454	Re: Model A clutch install Questions Since you are going to get the flywheel reground, secure a couple of 4inch long fine thread bolts and cut the hex off. Makes the 67 pound flywheel a bit easier to get off and on. Clean the area of the outer lip of the flywheel housing as the bellhousing seats into this area. No amount of bolt tightening will put the bellhousing seated well if its full of road dirt. This is a good time to replace a worn pedal shaft or clutch fork shaft that is worn and bushings.