Rod Bearings-NOS Copper/Lead vs Clevite 77

[svm99]

I have an opportunity to purchase some .030" NOS 8BA type Ford rod bearings for use with a Merc crank which will cleanup at .030" under on the rods. These are very good condition original insert copper/ lead bearings with a steel back. My question is, how does this bearing compare to a Clevite 77/comparable insert bearing. The engine will be a 3 5/16" bore built for street use. I'll look forward others thoughts on this. I acquired .020" Federal Mogul inserts for the mains.
Paul J.

[Rich Overton]

Federal Mogul was a major supplier to Ford for all of their bearing needs. Clevite 77 is a marketing name for their copper/lead plated bearing. The 77 only denotes 77% copper which was, in it's day the industry standard. Unable to crack the aftermarket, Clevite went into the racing circuit with their mysterious Clevite 77. They did an excellent job of marketing. Word is that the difference between The Federal Mogul CP bearing and the Clevite 77 is that Federal mogul applied their alloys in powder form then flash melted it onto the steel back for a more even disbursement of the alloys. Clevite on the other hand applied theirs in molten form creating a not so even disbursement of alloys. I spent over forty (40) years in the bearing business. I have never seen an engine bearing fail due to manufacture. Failure has always been because of dirt in the engine or improper oil clearance. I have had experience with Federal Mogul, TRW (Clevite), Michigan, and McQuay Norris to name a few. JUST KEEP IT CLEAN AND use plastigage to check for proper oil clearance during assembly.

Rich.

[oldford2]

Rich, so what are the options if we plastigage and find we are thousands or two out of spec? I mean the crank grinder says .020 so we order .20 under. Now what?? Thanks. Nice to have a bearing guy on board.
John

[flatjack9]

Get a different crank grinder.

[svm99]

Rich, These NOS Ford bearings appear to have a definite layering, steel back, copper and then the actual bearing material, dark gray, not the bright silverish color of a Clevite or Fed Mogul. Just wondering what the material could be. They do not appear to be a flash melted or sprayed finish.
Paul J.

[Rich Overton]

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Flatjack is on the right track. However, to answer Paul and John.
John, the use of plastigauge is more of a "check" on the crankshaft grinder and the bearings he supplied or the bearings purchased. If you find that you don't have proper clearance the alternative for insert bearings is to take the shaft back to the grinder and polish the "tight" journals. In addition, he should double check for out of round. If there is too much clearance either start from scratch with another shaft or regrind the present shaft to the next undersize. When we had babbit bearings prior to inserts, there were shims at the parting surfaces between the caps and rods or on the mains, between the caps and saddles. You could add or delete shims to get your desired clearance. I would not suggest that method in our more sophisticated engines. By the way, I have seen more assemblers than not use the plastigauge check. Especially when the machining is done outside of the assemblers shop.

Paul, as for the bearing surface not being shinny, It was always a definite No No to touch the surface of the engine bearings during assembly. The reason is that the acid from your hands and fingers would actually etch the surface of the bearing leaving your fingerprints. As time went on the manufacturers developed a thin coating ( usually gray or dull silver in color ) to eliminate the finger print problem. Most good assemblers will still wear white cotton gloves when installing the engine bearings. You'll see eveidence of this in most "high performance " shops.

Best to all you guys,

Rich

[Rich Overton]

Oh by the way, without cutting an insert bearing and magnifying a cross section of the cut, you could not tell which plating method was used.

Rich.

[Ol' Ron]

For the past 40 years I've been using scotch bright or 400 paper to Remove the "SHINE" and skuff up the surface of the bearings. This may be old school, but I've never had a bearing failure. Except in Paul Howards engine after 22,000 miles

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Paul Howards engine wasn't your fault Ol'Ron. It was the machine shop that ground the crank and tapped the cleanout holes for pipe plugs and didn't clean the sludge traps out. Those traps were so full of s-it I cain't beleive it went 22.000 miles. Walt