Please clarify a few items on the 38 Standard for me

[TJP]

You would think after owning one for over 40 years I would know these answers but
1. Some of the 38 Standards have additional trim on the font end and other do not. I ASSumed over the years if may have been due to the 60 vs 85 HP versions but have read there may have been other reasons?

2. Some have claimed 38 Standard front ends will interchange with 37's. I was always under the impression the the 38 Standard was a "bastard" year with respect to the front sheetmetal meaning it was a 1 year 1 model only .
Thanks 🍻

[rockfla]

I had understood the grill trim strips to be a mid/late model change along with the chrome windshield frame (or SS)? Following to see

[TJ]

If you do not have the Early Ford V-8 Club's book on the 38-39 Fords I would recommend you purchase it. You can buy it on the Early Ford V-8 Club's website. It's a wealth of information. www.earlyfordv8.org.

[Karl Wescott]

Regarding the question of interchange of 1937 and 1938 sheetmetal the answer is there is no interchange, however a complete "front clip" can replace another complete "front clip".


Astute readers may remember that the 1938 deluxe fenders mount to the cowl differently than the 1937 or 1938 standard. Ford accomplished there changeover by simply overlaying the 1938 deluxe fender over the cowl higher than the mount location for the 1937 or 1938 standard and by punching a mount hole and welding a nut into the "middle" of the cowl side.


So what is basically the same... cowl, running boards, radiator, frame.

[TJP]

Originally Posted by Karl Wescott

Regarding the question of interchange of 1937 and 1938 sheetmetal the answer is there is no interchange, however a complete "front clip" can replace another complete "front clip".


Astute readers may remember that the 1938 deluxe fenders mount to the cowl differently than the 1937 or 1938 standard. Ford accomplished there changeover by simply overlaying the 1938 deluxe fender over the cowl higher than the mount location for the 1937 or 1938 standard and by punching a mount hole and welding a nut into the "middle" of the cowl side.


So what is basically the same... cowl, running boards, radiator, frame.

Thank you for the response
I knew the deluxe is a complete different body sharing some parts with the 39 Standard.
The two questions I was trying to clarify:
1. the 38 Standard SS trim differences
2. Whether 37 front sheetmetal would bolt onto a 38 Standard body.
You have answered # 2

Still wondering about #1 🍻🍻

[TJP]

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Originally Posted by rockfla

I had understood the grill trim strips to be a mid/late model change along with the chrome windshield frame (or SS)? Following to see

thanks for the reply,

I have read the same as well as other reasons (IE:60 vs 85) which is why I'm trying to clarify what the actual facts are.
FYI my 38 Standard has the trim with a Chromed windshield frame.
The center strip is SS
There are also two pieces shaped like a C that hide the joint where the upper and lower halves meet. Not sure if those are chromed or SS as mine were missing ad still are as I've never found a source for them 🍻

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by TJP

thanks for the reply,

I have read the same as well as other reasons (IE:60 vs 85) which is why I'm trying to clarify what the actual facts are.
FYI my 38 Standard has the trim with a Chromed windshield frame.
The center strip is SS
There are also two pieces shaped like a C that hide the joint where the upper and lower halves meet. Not sure if those are chromed or SS as mine were missing ad still are as I've never found a source for them ��

I had never heard the V8-60 Vs V8-85 associated with the strip nor does Francis & DeAngells make any reference to that either in "The Early Ford V8: As Henry built it". With that said.....They don't really make any mention of the whole "Early Vs Late" (As we refer to it) either BUT in one picture in the book (38 Standard Two Door with SS Grill Trim and Windshield Frame) and I quote the caption "The SS windshield frame became a standard item in December of 1937 while the SS Belt molding was added in January of 1938 also note the folding radio antenna" SO.....from that, one would assume that the grill trim and hood strip was ALSO a part of the change in Dec 37/Jan 38??? NO mention of the grill trim anywhere in the book!!!!!


TJP By the way, your engine log number would also give you a clue as to when, relative to the info Francis & DeAngelis gave in the book, your call falls with regard to the dates they list!!! AS well as ones "without" IF you can obtain one from a car without?

[TJP]

Originally Posted by rockfla

I had never heard the V8-60 Vs V8-85 associated with the strip nor does Francis & DeAngells make any reference to that either in "The Early Ford V8: As Henry built it". With that said.....They don't really make any mention of the whole "Early Vs Late" (As we refer to it) either BUT in one picture in the book (38 Standard Two Door with SS Grill Trim and Windshield Frame) and I quote the caption "The SS windshield frame became a standard item in December of 1937 while the SS Belt molding was added in January of 1938 also note the folding radio antenna" SO.....from that, one would assume that the grill trim and hood strip was ALSO a part of the change in Dec 37/Jan 38??? NO mention of the grill trim anywhere in the book!!!!!


TJP By the way, your engine log number would also give you a clue as to when, relative to the info Francis & DeAngelis bood, your call falls with regard to the dates they list!!!

thank you again and that may be just the case. they certainly 'spiffed" up the front end and likely sales.
Not sure what you're referring to as "Engine LOG NUMBER". The original motor is LONG GONE.
It's more of a curiosity on my part as I've read so many different reasons over the years. The 60 to 85 HP made some sense as possibly their sales were lagging.?

I have never seen A SS windshield frame ? Not even one that was "capped" in SS. they have all been painted or Chromed

We're going back almost 100 years and facts get distorted as time goes on.
Reminds of another forum posting in which the original owners son swore the car came from the factory with an orange engine as it has never been out of the car. After 5 or so pages of back and forth comments, someone suggested removing a bracket to check the color. It was RED under the bracket which is the color the engine would have been. The red had faded to orange over time

thank you for your efforts

[rockfla]

I say SS as I am not a 38 "guy" so Chrome/SS whichever brightworkk treatment for the windshield frame, grill bars, hood strip and belt moldings??? As for your engine log number, it is stamped in your frame, left rail, not sure on 38's whether its by the cowl/steering box or near the front on 38's?? ALSO "IF" your transmission is still the "original" transmission it is ALSO stamped on there as well.

[TJP]

The frame rail stamping is 184474882 Same number is used as the VIN. I'm assuming puts it in the change category time frame
As mentioned it's more of a curiosity thing as I've read so many reasons over the years.
I bought the car in 1983 and the front clip may have been swapped prior to that adding the trim, or as you've stated it was after the mid year change. When I bought it, it had the 85HP in it but the little round HP emblem was missing.
thank you again ��

[rockfla]

TJP


Your engine number puts it as a March of 1938. Given the amount of engines completed in March and equal distribution NOT including weekends It would maybe?? Put it as a March 10th, March 11th "possibly". That doesn't mean that your car was built then, just that the engine and transmission completed its testing and was logged in as available for production.

[TJP]

Thank You

[mercman from oz]

1938 Ford Standard Coupe - Early & Late.
Illustrations from the original Sales Brochures

[mercman from oz]

Early 1938 Ford Standard Tudor Sedan
Notice no SS Strips on Grille and full length painted Pin Stripe.

[mercman from oz]

Late 1938 Ford Standard Tudor Sedan
Notice SS Strips on Grille and full length SS Strips along body.

[mercman from oz]

1938 Ford Standard Front Fenders are unique to the 1938 Ford Standard models.
They are different to the 1937 and 1938 Ford Deluxe Fenders.

[rockfla]

Most interesting the mix OR shall I say....The "early" grey two door with the Chrome/SS windshield frame and the "early" ad showing painted and a "late" black two door with the "early" painted windshield frame YET all the associated late trim enhancements??? It would be interesting to see the two numbers of those cars and see how close they are as the only logical thought would be both were made at different assembly plants close to the design change/enhancement??


*****ALSO of interest is two 38 standards currently on Ebay, one we call "early" and one we call "late" an BOTH are opposite windshield frames to conventional wisdom AND the ads Trevor posted.

[TJP]

thanks to all that responded, especially Rockfla for sticking with me and Mercman. a 40+ year question that's been taking up space in RAM (random access memory) has now now freed up some much needed space . Unfortunately the type I was born with is not upgradeable as they no longer make vacuum tubes LOLA. There are some foreign made ones that pop up occasionally but they're known to blow on power up

As most all know, The scourge of the 38 standards is the L side of the hood and trim. I was extremely fortunate to find both sides while on vacation in 1986. We stopped by a Hemmings advertiser on a whim. He brought me two pieces. The ends towards the front were cut at ~ 30 degree angle. I questioned him at the time he said they were supposed to be "hand fit" to the Ford emblem on the hood latch base.
I was still skeptical but him being a long time advertiser in Hemmings and said if they don't fit I'll refund your money and pay return shipping. I paid 45.00 for both. Didn't use the R side and have been wondering lately if it might work on the L? A long shot but I will have to check Still have the damaged L side but it will take someone skilled in SS repair.
Again thanks to ALL

[38 coupe]

As mentioned above the 38 Ford Standard was introduced with only the center grill stainless, and had a pin stripe. These cars looked very plain compared to the offerings from other competing manufacturers, and Ford had a problem selling the standards. Some stainless trim was added, but not enough, then the full complement including grill, side, and windshield trim was factory installed. Kits were available for dealers to add missing trim to early cars, at the owners request. This resulted in a mix of trim. All this happened before January of 38, I think. This was discussed in a thread about 38 standard coupe: https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthrea...9369&showall=1

I was lucky enough to be at the 2013 Grand National in Lake Tahoe where three 38 standards showed up. These cars were an early standard without any of the later trim, a slightly later car with some but not all trim, and a typical car with all the trim (not the last picture shown here).

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

As mentioned above the 38 Ford Standard was introduced with only the center grill stainless, and had a pin stripe. These cars looked very plain compared to the offerings from other competing manufacturers, and Ford had a problem selling the standards. Some stainless trim was added, but not enough, then the full complement including grill, side, and windshield trim was factory installed. Kits were available for dealers to add missing trim to early cars, at the owners request. This resulted in a mix of trim. All this happened before January of 38, I think. This was discussed in a thread about 38 standard coupe: https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthrea...9369&showall=1

I was lucky enough to be at the 2013 Grand National in Lake Tahoe where three 38 standards showed up. These cars were an early standard without any of the later trim, a slightly later car with some but not all trim, and a typical car with all the trim (not the last picture shown here).

The styling of the '38 Standard put that of the '38 Deluxe to shame...