Making Roadster More Narrow

[Lona]

Since I've owned my '31 roadster, the doors did not align well. When they are shut, the top edge and the bottom edge touch the body but the center of the door shows a gap of about a half inch. Getting the car ready to paint, I decided to try to fix that problem.

I recall many years ago reading on this forum that the problem is common on roadsters because, over time, the sides of the car tend to bow outward at the top. To verify this, I attached a come-along to the two convertible top attaching brackets and cranked it up. I was able to pull the sides inward about a full inch, making the car more narrow at that point. After doing this, the doors fit perfectly.

Loosing up on the come-along, the car sides went back almost to where they started. All I ended with was an eighth inch better than before and not enough to get the doors aligned. Cranking up the come-along again to go past the one inch I pulled the sides together before, the convertible brackets started to bend, telling me to stop that idea.

Can anyone who has done this before give me some input on how to permently pull the sides together? There must be a way to do it.

[The Master Cylinder]

I was told that what you describe is from years of people pulling on the top of the door frame to assist getting in and out of open cars. I think what you tried is a step in the right direction to correct the issue.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Use a turnbuckle running diagonally across the inner door skin. Use heavy wire anchoring into the door skin at the corners. Run the wire from the upper inner panel corner down to the rear corner. By tightening the turnbuckle, you will pull in the outer corner of the door. I had to do this with my 1931 Roadster to get the door to sit better against the rear quarter panel. You may not achieve a perfect fit, but it will be a heck of a lot better than doing nothing.
Glue some jute or thick fabric/felt between the door skin and the upholstery panel to minimize rattling noise. Be sure the turnbuckle is in the center of the door skin where it can hang inside the dished area of the skin.
Marshall

[Lona]

Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder

I was told that what you describe is from years of people pulling on the top of the door frame to assist getting in and out of open cars. I think what you tried is a step in the right direction to correct the issue.

Didn't think about years of pulling on the top of the side panels but you're probably right. And, it's not the doors since they fit very well against the body when the tops of the body sides are pulled in where they are supposed to be.
I'm looking for a way to pull the sides in and keep them in place. I'm concerned about breaking something by trying to correct the bowing out and would appreciate hearing from anybody who has done this. Should I continue to try to fix this or should I leave it alone before I cause more problems?

Glen

[jw hash]

I take a piece of 3/4 angle iron and formed it to fit the corners after you pull them in. bolt the formed angle in under the belt rail. it reinforces the corner and holds them in place. sometimes you have to cut and weld a screw up the paint.

[nkaminar]

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I am no expert when it comes to bodies, but I would contend that the wood frame needs some overhaul.

[john in illinois]

I had to pull ithe sides side of my roadster. I first drilled out the bottom braces of the panel. Then I attached puller from the top to the other side bottom supports as an anchor. when things matched up I put bolts in the bottom braces'

You can measure from top of each panel to bottom of opposite panel to determine which needs to come in.

John

[gdmn852]

Hello, you can check the lower door gap at the body sill to inner door frame, it should fit consistently along the bottom, this car has massive gap towards the back, and will need the upper quarter pulled inward with a come a long.Also there are braces on lower quarter panel to sub frame, these might be sprong causing the mis alignment ,Door hinges should also be tight but they would be more door gap between body and door related.

[philosofriend]

You are on the right track. The only problem you are having is that the convertible brackets are not a good place for the pulling force to be applied. You have to improvise some kind of bracket that will spread the force out over the whole top of the body. You want to bend the whole side of the quarter panel without distorting the spot where you are applying the force. Spread the force out so you don't distort the top curve of the quarter panel.

There are a lot of ways you could spread the force out. I would bandsaw a piece of wood that would match the curve of the top of the quarter, line it with urethane foam. Instead of a come along I would use two of the clamps that use a pipe (use a long enough pipe to reach across the car. Google "wood pipe clamp" to see what I am talking about.

You could also take two two by fours, one on each side of the car, cable them together under the car, then use the come along at the top to pull the two by fours against the curved wood pieces used to keep from bending the top of the quarter.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Y'all do it however you like but the issue we have always found was the reproduction wood Tack Rails are not correct which allows the body to sag because of little support. Ford realized they had a problem with this so in 1930 they also went to a metal tack rail that used two metal bars with leather sandwiched.

Make the rear rail out of one-piece of wood as per original and see if that doesn't cure your problem.

[Lona]

I really appreciate the input regarding fixing my door gap problem. I had to exert considerable force on the come-along to pull in the tops of the quarter panels and when I did, the doors fit nicely. As soon as the come-along was released, the panels went almost back to their original position. All I gained was 1/8" when I needed about 7/8".

I have a real concern if I exert any more force on the panels to pull them inward, even taking precautions to evenly spread the point of force over a wider area, I might permanently crease the outer skin or break internal braces. And, what would prevent the panels from returning to their original position again? Am I being overly cautious? Has anyone actually done this without distorting the panels or breaking something?

To Brent's input, I have long respected your expertise regarding work on Model A cars but somehow i am missing how replacing the wood tack rails would resolve the door gap issue. If you have time, could you explain in a little more detail what I'm not understanding? I just can't seem to grasp that idea. Could it be that I might have reproduction rails that are too wide and are forcing the tops of the quarter panels outward?

Glen

[Randy in ca]

I think Brent mistakenly thought you were working on a 1928-29 body with the wood joints near the ends of the wood which limits the amount of support against outward spreading of the quarter panels. Do you know what is under the upholstery in this regard? (steel bars that he referred to being used in 1930-31?).

Before I did anything further I would get a measurement off a known good body of what the distance between the topbow brackets should be, rather than assuming that spreading of the top of the panels is causing the problem. Normally when the quarter panels are spread outward at the top, the door will be flush at the top and any gap will be at the bottom of the door. Your situation with the door gap only in the middle suggests that the shape of either the door or the quarter panel is possibly not normal. In this situation though it's hard to reason how both sides would be the same.

If at all possible some measurements off of known good doors and panels should go a long ways in figuring out what is causing the problem. Good luck - keep posting.

[john in illinois]

Did you drill the rivets at the body to the steel bottom panel mounts. If not that will cause spring back. Also measure on diagonal to get panels centered.

John

[Planojc]

I have seen many 30-31 roadsters with this problem due to people pulling on the top rail to get in the car. The sheet metal was cracked at the area where the bend starts and curves around the back on my roadster. I used a all thread rod to pull the sides in until the doors fit. Then I took a piece of flatbar, laying flat, and did reliefs cuts on it so I could bend it the same curvature of the top rail. After fitting the piece under the rail, I welded the reliefe cuts, drilled several holes in the flatbar so I could then weld the bar to the under side of the top rail through those holes. This gave added strength and held the panel in place. The flatbar should run from where the top attaches, to past the curve of the top rail.

[Lona]

Thanks for all the input. Unfortunately, I am away from home for the holidays and into mid-January. As such, I won't be able to see or work on the car until then but will address the door issue soon as I get back. I'll keep posting.

Glen

[Tinbasher]

The door posts have moved over time. Quite common on open cars. Because you didn't hammer the brackets that go to the floor on the door posts. The metal went back to were it was. The formula for metal repair is "Directive + Release = Flow" so you had the directive, the straps pulling the top of the door opening together but you didn't have the release, the hammering or heat. so it didn't flow back to it's original location. You also have to allow for "Springback" of the metal. I will usually over pull or push by 20% to allow for this. Then see where you are. What I do once I get the opening and the doors lined up I will re-inforce the door post at the base were it meets the floor and re-inforce the belt rail at the top. Then it should stay in place. Don't be surprized if the base of the Door post is rotted and weak. The Old Tinbasher.