54 Crestline disc brakes, again

[emf]

I searched this forum for answers, but was unsuccessful, so if I missed it, sorry.
I have a stock 1954 Crestline Sunliner and wish to install manual front disc brakes. I have seen many kits available and all but one I have looked at say 'must use 15" disc type wheels." Since I have Coker's bias look radials at a cost of over $1500, I must use the original Ford wheels. An ebay item advertises 54-55-56 kits that use original spindles and wheels but the caliper needs a bit of grinding. I have asked the seller to elaborate. Prestige Thunderbird has a complete kit, but he says 54 spindles were 1 year only and I would have to convert to later spindles to use his kit.



Is anyone familiar with the ebay kit from MGCHEVYPARTS?
any insight from you guys that have done this?
Thanks in advance


Frank

[miker98038]

You might ask “why” on the wheels. I know some kits for the 55 have Granada rotors, and the hub of the rotor is turned down. It’s not a matter of the 55 wheels clearing the calipers, but rather of the center hole going over the rotor hub. If you use later model wheels, most of those have the larger openings. If it’s this, you might be able to turn the rotor hub down. That’s what the 55-56 bird kits do,

Now if it’s a matter of the rim itself clearing the caliper that’s another matter. Do you know the rotor size and which caliper they are using?

[KULTULZ]

The 1954/1956 FORD and 1955/1957 BIRD used the same spindle.

[KULTULZ]

Look at this kit - https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Br...ia&option=Base

This will use the OEM spindle. It is a high end version of what PRESTIGE sells. It is all 1st class, no GM junk.

Your wheel is 15" X 5". The kit comes with spacers (quality) to set the rim off the caliper, or you could go with a later disc style wheel that will give you the correct off-set.

It uses a four-piston fixed caliper that is a modern version of the 1965/1967 KELSEY-HAYES 4-piston design.

You are going to stay with manual brakes? The front disc require more line pressure than power disc so it may take getting used to on application. But it will be much better than the drum brakes on it now (IMO).

Oh, no need for fancy cheese-cutter rotors. A waste of money.

Read all of the info on the site.

[emf]

Thank you, Kultulz, I hoped you would answer...


Frank

[54VICTORIA]

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This is the kit I used on my 1954 Crestline Victoria and I’m using the stock wheels.

https://www.autocityclassic.com/pass...nada-spindles/

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 54VICTORIA

This is the kit I used on my 1954 Crestline Victoria and I’m using the stock wheels.

https://www.autocityclassic.com/pass...nada-spindles/

Now I am not bad-mouthing anyone but this kit uses GRANADA spindles.

The GRANADA is a coil over upper control arm design and is meant for that type of suspension only (incl FALCON-MUSTANG). It may prove to be difficult to align correctly and the Ackermann angle will not be correct. Because of reduced spindle height, it will also drop the front end.

The kit uses a CORVETTE STYLE MC and who only knows what sourced booster.

What style PPV (proportioning valve) did they supply? Is it a COMBINATION VALVE including a METERING VALVE?

Can you show a photo of your install showing the MC/BOOSTER?

[emf]

Thanks for replies. It's my understanding that Granada spindles lower the front end, which I do not want to do. Prestige TBird has used TBird spindles that he will sell me that do not change the spindle height, but he needs to check the bearing surface to see if there is a difference in the bearings. He's not sure. When I check the bearing numbers, 55-56 are different from 54, so there must be a difference in the spindles. Not sure why Ford would change the spindles from 54 to 55, but then your spindle numbers indicate they are the same. Why then would the bearings be different? Confusing...


Frank

[emf]

Looking at the Wilwood kit, it's not much different in price from Prestige. Come Monday, I'll contact Wilwood and get some answers. I'll have to think about adding power. I'm not sure about having enough room near the master cylinder for a booster. I have time to do this right...


Frank

[54VICTORIA]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Now I am not bad-mouthing anyone but this kit uses GRANADA spindles.

The GRANADA is a coil over upper control arm design and is meant for that type of suspension only (incl FALCON-MUSTANG). It may prove to be difficult to align correctly and the Ackermann angle will not be correct. Because of reduced spindle height, it will also drop the front end.

The kit uses a CORVETTE STYLE MC and who only knows what sourced booster.

What style PPV (proportioning valve) did they supply? Is it a COMBINATION VALVE including a METERING VALVE?

Can you show a photo of your install showing the MC/BOOSTER?

Didn’t have any issues with the alignment. The kit was complete they supplied everything.

[KULTULZ]

Didn’t have any issues with the alignment. The kit was complete they supplied everything.

You misunderstood my post. If it worked for you that is fine.

I am just trying to warn what trouble(s) can occur with this swap and GM based off-shore kits.

It is best (IMO) to retain the factory spindle and geometry.

You have a custom under hood appearance, That is fine. I am more of a traditionalist and appreciate OEM appearing conversions and using fixed calipers as opposed to sliding calipers.

[KULTULZ]

I'm not sure about having enough room near the master cylinder for a booster.

You are wanting to retain the OEM appearance while upgrading the braking system, correct?

To me, the CORVETTE MC and booster is out of place on an original FORD/MERC/LINC car. If you decide on manual disc, use a FORD style manual disc/drum MC as opposed to the shiny aftermarket styles. You are also going to have to use a proportioning valve (aftermarket adjustable) and front metering valve.

There is nothing wrong with the PRESTIGE system (same basic design as WILDWOOD). I just worry as to where they source their parts.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by emf

Prestige TBird has used TBird spindles that he will sell me that do not change the spindle height, but he needs to check the bearing surface to see if there is a difference in the bearings. He's not sure. When I check the bearing numbers, 55-56 are different from 54, so there must be a difference in the spindles. Not sure why Ford would change the spindles from 54 to 55, but then your spindle numbers indicate they are the same. Why then would the bearings be different?

Confusing...

Frank

The spindles are the same. He must sell mainly to BIRD guys and not FORD.

Let me work on this. I will repply before MON morning so you can make your calls.

Now this is your car and you do what you think is best for the car and yourself. I am only trying to answer your questions, not to pressure you into anything, OK?

[emf]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

The spindles are the same. He must sell mainly to BIRD guys and not FORD.

Let me work on this. I will repply before MON morning so you can make your calls.

Now this is your car and you do what you think is best for the car and yourself. I am only trying to answer your questions, not to pressure you into anything, OK?

You are correct in ALL of your assumptions. He sells primarily to TBird guys, that is the reason for his hesitation. I also feel like you, in that I want to maintain the original appearance as much as possible. No pressure, I appreciate you help.


I remember some years ago I had a 64 1/2 Mustang with a doggy 260 V8 that needed real help. I dropped a 302 HO from an 89 Mustang, along with its T5 into that Mustang and removed all of the fuel injection stuff and even kept the original mechanical fuel pump and distributor. When the hood was open, the only way to tell it was a later power plant was through the engine part numbers. The T5 shifter even came up through the same hole in the floor as the original crunch box. I'm willing to take the time and make it right for me.


Frank

[KULTULZ]

I remember some years ago I had a 64 1/2 Mustang with a doggy 260 V8 that needed real help. I dropped a 302 HO from an 89 Mustang, along with its T5 into that Mustang and removed all of the fuel injection stuff and even kept the original mechanical fuel pump and distributor. When the hood was open, the only way to tell it was a later power plant was through the engine part numbers. The T5 shifter even came up through the same hole in the floor as the original crunch box. I'm willing to take the time and make it right for me.

We are on the same page.

The difference(s) I have found on the bearings has to do with which hub (brake sizing) was used on the 54 (model specific). The 55/56 FORD used one size hub.

Also, hold onto any take-off parts as you or a future buyer may want to bring it back to factory or you may find a buyer for the parts.

Did you ask about a power steering conversion earlier?

[Fairlane56]

I use the Wilwood kit on our 56 and have always been pleased. They are NOT power assist as I do not like the look of the vacuum can on the firewall. Make sure you use a 7/8” bore Master Cylinder. I did use the Wilwood one. If you feel the pedal pressure is too much (I did not) you can drill another hole in your pedal and move the push rod up. Be sure to plug the original hole with a tight fitting rod. I also purchased an adjustable push rod for a Mustang from Wilwood. The MC bolts to the lower 2 original bolt holes on the firewall. I bought 2 close studs to make the installation easier. I also purchased from Prestige their exhaust heat detector for a dual master and added heat reflecting tape to th bottom. I made a decorative plate to cover the top 2 holes. Sorry I cannot post a photo. Good luck…

[emf]

I think I have decided to go with the power brake option. It makes sense to do it now, since it will be apart anyway...


How would I know which hub I have on this Sunliner?


Frank

[KULTULZ]

When you talk with TECH, 1954 FORD should ring a bell with them and they will ask model/trim level. I am sure they have been through this one before as they say the kit will fit a 54 FORD.

Are you comfortable with the appearance of the firewall mounted booster?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Fairlane56

I use the Wilwood kit on our 56 and have always been pleased. They are NOT power assist as I do not like the look of the vacuum can on the dash.

Make sure you use a 7/8” bore Master Cylinder.

Now did TECH recommend that MC piston size to use with manual brake?

She stops well with no extra leg power?

[Fairlane56]

Yes the tech at Wilwood recommended the MC. Since I had changed complete rear ends, drum to drum, he also asked about the rear wheel cylinders. Since the rear came from a power brake vehicle he suggested I replace the wheel cylinders with a smaller diameter which I had already done since the rear went in a few months before the front disc conversion.

An interesting solution. Prestige Thunderbird has installed a Midland fender mount vacuum booster on many Birds with disc brake conversions for use only on the front wheels. I have talked to 3 owners who are very satisfied with the result.

I don’t who “she” is but our 56 Victoria stops with a little less pressure than the stock 4 drums using the Wilwood front 4 piston calipers and the new F-150 wider 11” drums.