1928 Sport Coupe turn signals not working

[1928 Sport Coupe]

1928 Model A Sport Coupe
I have been working on the A to get it running and dependable after sitting for over 20 years. The best I can figure is it last ran around May of 2002, the date on the battery I put in. I worked on it for the previous owner then it was driven about 60 miles home and parked. She said she may have driven it 1 more time shortly after that and parked and covered it in the garage. I bought and picked it up on April 22 2022.
I changed all of the wiring, including building a turn harness according to the schematic on the turn signal switch instruction sheet. I used cloth covered wiring and woven cloth loom to keep it looking correct. I also changed the bulbs to 6V LED for the headlights, park lights, tail lights,and the turn lights. I can not get the turn lights to work, they are wired completely separate from the other lights. I ran a separate ground wire to each turn light. They are LED with resistors wired in from the manufacturer and mount on the bumper bolts between the bumper rails. . These are supposed to work with the 535 thermal 6V flasher unit.They do not light or flash at all. I thought the flasher was bad but a new flasher did not work any different. I can jump from the X or "ignition power" terminal to the L or load terminals and they will light L or R with the turn switch. So I am sure it is wired correctly. I ran the X terminal wire to the terminal box drivers side terminal to keep the wire hidden under the gas tank. I took the cover off the old flasher unit and I can push the bimetal contacts by hand and make it flash or hold it on and the R or L lights will light with the switch. I tried swapping the X & L terminals with no change. I have a few new 12v electronic flasher units that I tried out of desperation but they did nothing either. I have a buzzer wired to the P or Pilot terminal and it will buzz continuously. I thought I would try hooking up the old incandescent turn lights tomorrow to see if they will work. Would an electronic flasher unit be the answer? I still have it as 6V positive ground. I did not want the Logo lights electronic controlled turn lights because I wanted to use the turn light switch the car came with.
I have read so many threads about LED verses' Incandescent bulbs & flasher units for turn signals I am confused.
Thanks

[bobv]

Sounds like the problem I was having, the 535 flashers just didn't work, this flasher did the trick for me.

http://https://www.snydersantiqueaut...7586&cat=41942

Also I did have a couple of those lights that simply did not work right out of the box.

[rotorwrench]

The electronic flashers are available from several sources. Here is one.
https://www.ledlight.com/flasher-6-v...SABEgIOQvD_BwE

The bi-metallic signal stat flashers depend on the current draw from the light bulbs to get proper function. LEDs don't have enough current draw to make them work. Using a resistor to get a current draw on an LED is defeating the purpose of using the LEDs since is makes another current draw on the system.

[Badpuppy]

Measure resistance across the led units. I would guess it should be less than 6 ohms in order to provide enough current to the thermal flasher. If higher, you need to add parallel resistance for more current draw.

[katy]

Did you put the resistors in series w/the lights? Or in parallel (as they should be)?
FWIW, I use a 6V electronic flasher.

[1928 Sport Coupe]

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The resistors were preinstalled when I received the lights. I have forgotten some of the electronics I learned 40 years ago but I am pretty sure the resistors are in parallel to the LED's. The resistors are glued to the back of the bracket.I have included a picture of the back of one of the lights as I was wiring it up. Sorry for the quality but it is the only picture I have for now that shows the resistor.
Thanks

[Patrick L.]

It was asked if the lights light and there is no answer.

If all LEDs are used I doubt a 535 flasher will work.

So, it seems that it must be figured if the lights will light if wired direct by themselves. There could be something as simple as a ground issue. Once the lights light then you only need to figure out how to get them to flash. Without enough load the only option may be to try one of the new 6v electronic flashers.

[nkaminar]

Check the pinout on the flasher to see if it matches the wires on it's socket. Different flashers have different pinouts. Re check the wiring one more time. You can make a temporary harness that will plug into the socket for the flasher to hook it up differently for testing and then change the socket wiring if you find something that works.

[1928 Sport Coupe]

Yes the turn lights light up if I jump the X and L terminals and then move the turn signal lever from L to R. Both front and rear light up depending on the direction the lever is in.

Thanks

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by 1928 Sport Coupe

Yes the turn lights light up if I jump the X and L terminals and then move the turn signal lever from L to R. Both front and rear light up depending on the direction the lever is in.

Thanks

Seems like a matter of finding the proper flasher [and maybe having to wire it correctly] .

[1928 Sport Coupe]

I928 Model A Sport Coupe.
I worked on the turn signals today. I first tried replacing the LED's with the old Incandescent lights. Nothing changed. I then made up a set of jumper leads for the old flasher unit and swapped the X and L terminals. With the old lamps still hooked up it then flashed. I then plugged the new flasher unit in and again nothing. I installed the old flasher again and it worked. Then I hooked the LED's back up and again nothing. I then added all 4 of the old incandescent lamps back in with the LED's. again they flashed. They flashed rather fast but they were flashing. I removed one lamp from each side and again they worked. The speed of the flashing may have slowed down a tiny little bit. I had the old flasher unit apart so I reattached the cover and may need to use it. I am confused about switching the X & L wires working because the turn switch, flasher unit, and turn lamps have been on the car for 40 or more years. The wires were in terrible shape so I replaced the wiring and then decided to go with new lamps. The old front lamps looked bad and the tail lamps were a cobbled mess.
The new 6 volt flasher unit will not work any way I hook it up. I again tried the 12 volt electronic flasher I have and it will not do anything. I did notice the current electronic flashers have an extra lead mine does not have. I assume the lead is hooked to the ground.
Will the 6 volt electronic flasher unit work with the LED's with the integrated resistor without adding more resistance/load to the circuit? I have heard the Model A ignition sometimes interferes with the electronic flashers. If I go with the 6 volt positive ground electronic flasher will I need to swap the X & L leads back to the original position? The car is still 6 Volt positive ground.
I see Snyders has load resistors # A-13464 available. but I would prefer not to add any more resistor units, there is already 1 on each LED lamp.
Thanks

[nkaminar]

I couldn't get the electronic flasher to work on my car. I went with a standard flasher and added my own resistors. There are flashers with 3 or 4 terminals. One is ground, one is power, and one is the circuit that goes off and on for flashing the lights. The fourth one goes to the little light in the turn signal switch that indicates that the flasher is flashing. It seems that all the flasher units have different pinouts. They should be marked but they can be marked differently. Rapid flashing can be caused by the resistance being wrong.

It is interesting to note that on both my modern cars the click click noise of the flasher is generated by the computer and run through the speakers for the radio. When I converted my 2016 truck over to LED's I searched for a day for the flasher. Ha ha.

The LED's with resistors do not reduce the current draw but the LED's last a lot longer so I don't have to worry about checking for burned out bulbs.

[Patrick L.]

You need load for a thermal flasher to work, which usually [for me] means incandescent front bulbs. I don't use resistors [ tried them, more trouble than they're worth].

The purpose of the electronic flashers is to not have to use extra load. But, I find they don't work. These were older ones though, haven't tried any new ones. Haven't had to.

[rotorwrench]

Flasher units are pretty universal with exception to the late electronic types. We are at a big disadvantage not knowing what system is involved and what its recommended wiring diagram is. The different manufacturers have different color codes for things with some exceptions.

This is pinning for a 3-pin standard electric flasher unit
X = Power in from the battery (preferably through a fused connection).
L = Load which is power to the turn signal switch.
P = Pilot connection so a person can see the turn signal is on

Electronic types need a ground to function so they are labeled differently. Some have a ground wire with a terminal on it for screw attachment to ground and others use the 3rd pin for ground in the female three pin socket that's made for them.

[katy]

It seems to me that adding resistors to augment the load, so that the flasher will work, is defeating the purpose of using LEDs to lower power consumption.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by katy

It seems to me that adding resistors to augment the load, so that the flasher will work, is defeating the purpose of using LEDs to lower power consumption.

Yeah, but keep in mind you still get the more intense illumination of the LEDs over incandescent. To my mind that's the most important benefit.

My semi-informed $0.02 worth.

JayJay

[rotorwrench]

I don't now what value the resistors are. Most diagrams I've seen only have the resistors on the rear lamps. They may not need to draw much current but I'd have to have the value of the resistor to calculate the current draw. That would have to be added to the value of any bulbs that were either flashing or illuminating in the case of the rear brake light function.

[1928 Sport Coupe]

1928 Sport Coupe

As of yesterday the LED turn lights will flash with 1 incandescent bulb added per side and I had to swap the X and L terminals from side to side, using the 40 to 50 year old thermal flasher. I have an electronic 6 Volt positive ground flasher unit ordered. I will try the electronic unit before doing anything else. I went with the LED's because they are brighter and last longer. I consider it to be a safety issue.
I have read many that say the electronic flashers do not work and many that say they are the only way to go. I guess I am confused with to much information. I will let you know how the electronic unit works after I get it.
Thanks for the advise

[1928 Sport Coupe]

1928 Sport Coupe
OK I received the flasher units today. 1 thermal and 1 electronic. I plugged in the electronic flasher and all of the signal lights worked with the turn switch L or R depending where the handle was. The speed of the flashing was satisfactory also. I also tried 2 Incandescent bulbs (one per side) and it still flashed OK.
I then tried a new thermal flasher with the 2 incandescent bulbs and it flashed OK also. When I removed the incandescent bulbs it would not flash or even light up.
That is the end of my experimenting on the turn lights for now anyway. The electronic flasher seems to work as intended so I will leave it in place.
I do appreciate all of the help to sort this problem out. Hopefully I will not need to bother you guys with another problem at least for awhile.
Thanks again

[katy]

Thanks for the feedback, glad to here you got it working.