8ba in 32 ford ?

[334charlie]

what problems can i expect putting an 8ba Flathead in a stock 32 ford roadster?

[Ol' Ron]

The biggest problem is the front cross member. By using a custom craNK PULLEY AND A SET OF SKIPS 59awater pumps, this problem goes away. Use truck or Merc oil pan.
Good luck

[334charlie]

Ron thanks for the info. can i make the changes to the crank pulley or dose some one sell custom pulley?

[32Gnu]

You can look at my posts on this..
a couple of the problems I have run in to are:

If you use the truck pumps and the 8bA dizzy you are limiting your choices for a fan setup.. You can use a 59a camshaft and 59a dizzy and 59a short water pumps to avoid this....

Your bellhousing will likely hit the firewall, I had to put a 3/8"shim" under my firewall to pick the body up enough so I didnt have to modify my firewall..

It may fit on your application better than it did on mine. I have talked to other guys who didnt have to pick their body up for one reason or another..

oh and another thing.. if you are running an original radiator you will have to pick your engine mounts up flush to the top of the frame rail to get the radiator/water pumps to line up.. or use an offset that is availible from MEC.. let me know if you need a set.. I will sell mine cheap.

and as far as the front pulley, just trim the front pulley off. I did and still had to trim and inch off the rear lip of my crossmember..

If you need pics let me know.. I can show you what I did.. not that it is right.. I didnt like picking my body up the 3/8", because of the obvious fender,hood, leter fitting issues. But I dont plan on running fenders right now..

[334charlie]

if trim the front pulley off what do you do for a fan?

[32Gnu]

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Electric or some use a small fan on the front of the alt/gen...

[Ol' Ron]

I used a SBC dist and shimmed the generator out 1/4". Belt rides under the dist, no problem. Belt misalignment, no problem.

[hop up]

I had no problems with putting one in, and without cutting a thing. I used 51 merc waterpumps and mallory dizzy and alt with 3x2 grancor intake,stock fan and belt setup. Its tight but fits nice and looks right in place.By chance you get a hair up your @ss and go with a taboo motor. A chevy WILL fit without cutting as well even tighter but running a stock fan and belt setup. I have done a few and still on the road with miles of smiles

[Flathead Fever]

When I bought my basket case ‘32 3-window, somebody had boxed in a bent frame and welded in a Model-A front cross member. The project came with a rebuilt 59A engine with all the speed goodies. One of the things they did was weld the flathead motor mounts flush with the top of the frame rails. When I went to install the firewall it hit the intake before it could come far enough forward to line up with the factory holes in the frame. Somebody had marked the firewall with a marker and was getting ready to trim it away to clear the flathead. The engine and trans were bolted to an original ’32 cross member so it was not that the engine was mounted too far back. I started thinking, ‘32 Fords came with flathead V8s, the early blocks are physically the same size as the later ones so there should be no reason to cut anything. I removed the motors mounts pads which lowered the front of the engine and the firewall cleared the intake. I called the guy that I bought the car from and he gave me the number of the hot rod shop that built the frame. I called this guy and asked him why he had welded the mounts flush with the top of the frame. He said this was his first hot rod build using a flathead and he had looked at a bunch of magazine photos and it appeared to him that the mounts should be flush with the frame. I started looking at other ‘32 Fords using water pump motor mounts and most of the mounts were welded lower than the top of the frame rail. I hated that butchered and bent frame so bad I sold it to a kid, I told him everything that was wrong with it and he was still thrilled to get it, I was more thrilled to see it go away. I bought another frame that wasn’t too bad, this one still had its original front cross member but it had a piece cutout of it to clear a small block Chevy crank pulley. I was looking at those original motor mount pads and I decided to use the original ’32 motor mounts instead of welding mounts to my nice frame rails.

I bolted the engine in using original ‘32 motor mounts and brand new rubber biscuits. The water pump mounts definitely end up below the top of the frame rail. In this original position the firewall barely clears the intake, there is only about 3/8 of a inch space between the intake and the firewall. it is extremely important that you get the front of that motor at the correct height. I would not weld the mounts on without a firewall to check the clearance.

I started on a ‘32 roadster project and I robbed the 59A motor from the unfinished 3-window project. I have a ‘51 Merc motor to go back in the 3-window. My front cross member is already cut in the 3-Window so I don’t have to feel guilty about installing the Merc motor. I took a photo of my 59A motor, you can see that there is just about a ½ inch between the pulley and the cross member. The Merc pulley is going to move forward 1 ¾ inches, so that cross member lip would have to go. I took another photo of my 3-Window cross member which has had the lip trimmed away for a Chevy pulley. You would not have to trim this much for an 8BA pulley but you get the idea what has to be done

The late model truck pumps were designed so the belt would clear the distributor but they still have the early style motor mounts and the wide belt. The crankshaft pulley I will be using is a ‘49 Ford, I machined off the front pulley on a brake rotor lathe (see photo). The generator is a ‘57 Ford, it even had the alignment pin hole to fit the flathead generator mount. I can’t remember what I did to the front of the generator to get the fan mount, I’m pretty sure it’s the front of an old fan mount generator with the mount ground off of it, as you can tell by the dust on all this stuff its been awhile??? One of the neat features of the late model water pumps is they move the belt forward so it just barely clears the bend in the ‘32 motor mounts (see photo), on the earlier pumps the belt hit’s the mounts so you have to grind on them a bit. You can see in the photo that I have ground off the motor mounts on the pumps.
　
If I had a nice original ‘32 frame I would not use an 8BA unless I changed the cam, timing cover, distributor and water pumps so I would not have to trim the front cross member. I would also use original ‘32 motor mounts so I would not have to weld mounts to the rails. There is something magical about a pristine original ‘32 frame.

If I had a frame that had already been hot rodded and had lived eight of its nine lives as most have, then I would go ahead and weld on the water pump mounts, They are really a better setup than the ‘32 mounts. I would also replace the front cross member with a Model A to drop the front-end another inch.

[NealinCA]

Flathead Fever...thank you for the info and pics. That is the best explanation of an 8BA in a 32 I have read. I am planning to put an 8BA in my Fordor...and with the front crossmember already cut, iit sounds like a no brainer. I just picked up a 39 pickup generator pulley, so I can do the same with a 57-64 12V generator and run the pulley mounted fan.

Thanks again,

Neal

[xix32]

this is a 59a block, but that shouldn't change the fact that the front crank center line needs to be 2 3/8" below the top edge of the frame rails ( regardless of what front crossmember you use) for the engine to clear the firewall and have the `32 rear trans mount fit flush up against the "K" member.

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by Flathead Fever

When I bought my basket case ‘32 3-window, somebody had boxed in a bent frame and welded in a Model-A front cross member. The project came with a rebuilt 59A engine with all the speed goodies. One of the things they did was weld the flathead motor mounts flush with the top of the frame rails. When I went to install the firewall it hit the intake before it could come far enough forward to line up with the factory holes in the frame. Somebody had marked the firewall with a marker and was getting ready to trim it away to clear the flathead. The engine and trans were bolted to an original ’32 cross member so it was not that the engine was mounted too far back. I started thinking, ‘32 Fords came with flathead V8s, the early blocks are physically the same size as the later ones so there should be no reason to cut anything. I removed the motors mounts pads which lowered the front of the engine and the firewall cleared the intake. I called the guy that I bought the car from and he gave me the number of the hot rod shop that built the frame. I called this guy and asked him why he had welded the mounts flush with the top of the frame. He said this was his first hot rod build using a flathead and he had looked at a bunch of magazine photos and it appeared to him that the mounts should be flush with the frame. I started looking at other ‘32 Fords using water pump motor mounts and most of the mounts were welded lower than the top of the frame rail. I hated that butchered and bent frame so bad I sold it to a kid, I told him everything that was wrong with it and he was still thrilled to get it, I was more thrilled to see it go away. I bought another frame that wasn’t too bad, this one still had its original front cross member but it had a piece cutout of it to clear a small block Chevy crank pulley. I was looking at those original motor mount pads and I decided to use the original ’32 motor mounts instead of welding mounts to my nice frame rails.

I bolted the engine in using original ‘32 motor mounts and brand new rubber biscuits. The water pump mounts definitely end up below the top of the frame rail. In this original position the firewall barely clears the intake, there is only about 3/8 of a inch space between the intake and the firewall. it is extremely important that you get the front of that motor at the correct height. I would not weld the mounts on without a firewall to check the clearance.

I started on a ‘32 roadster project and I robbed the 59A motor from the unfinished 3-window project. I have a ‘51 Merc motor to go back in the 3-window. My front cross member is already cut in the 3-Window so I don’t have to feel guilty about installing the Merc motor. I took a photo of my 59A motor, you can see that there is just about a ½ inch between the pulley and the cross member. The Merc pulley is going to move forward 1 ¾ inches, so that cross member lip would have to go. I took another photo of my 3-Window cross member which has had the lip trimmed away for a Chevy pulley. You would not have to trim this much for an 8BA pulley but you get the idea what has to be done

The late model truck pumps were designed so the belt would clear the distributor but they still have the early style motor mounts and the wide belt. The crankshaft pulley I will be using is a ‘49 Ford, I machined off the front pulley on a brake rotor lathe (see photo). The generator is a ‘57 Ford, it even had the alignment pin hole to fit the flathead generator mount. I can’t remember what I did to the front of the generator to get the fan mount, I’m pretty sure it’s the front of an old fan mount generator with the mount ground off of it, as you can tell by the dust on all this stuff its been awhile??? One of the neat features of the late model water pumps is they move the belt forward so it just barely clears the bend in the ‘32 motor mounts (see photo), on the earlier pumps the belt hit’s the mounts so you have to grind on them a bit. You can see in the photo that I have ground off the motor mounts on the pumps.
　
If I had a nice original ‘32 frame I would not use an 8BA unless I changed the cam, timing cover, distributor and water pumps so I would not have to trim the front cross member. I would also use original ‘32 motor mounts so I would not have to weld mounts to the rails. There is something magical about a pristine original ‘32 frame.

If I had a frame that had already been hot rodded and had lived eight of its nine lives as most have, then I would go ahead and weld on the water pump mounts, They are really a better setup than the ‘32 mounts. I would also replace the front cross member with a Model A to drop the front-end another inch.

Will a 39-48 intake manifold bolt on to a 49-53 engine?

[rotorwrench]

I think all the manifolds will interchange between flathead blocks with only a few exceptions.

It was mentioned earlier about using Mercury parts. The late 49 through 51 Mercury water pumps have the engine mounting lugs at a lot higher position than the 8RT type truck pumps. The early 49 pumps have the wide sheave but are still bushing type (can be converted). The Mercury pumps could be used to lower the motor in the frame. Mercurys used a U-shaped spacer to compensate when they changed the original mount design in late 49. The 3/8" wide sheave type crank pulley is a lot smaller from front to rear than the wide sheeve truck pulley. It may fit in there better with the crossmember. Not as good as a single sheave modified 21A/59A pulley but better than the 48 & later truck type. The 3/8 width belt sheave fan set up gives more room too and is a 4-blade type.

The 32 has about 2 inches more to work with than the Model A's so the 8BA/8CM/8RT engines can be made to fit much easier. Still not a walk in the park though. Model A's always have to have some special fan arangement especially on the 28/29 models. The offset generator with a custom fan fitted as low and as far back as practicable is the only easy way to go on the 28/29 models and it ain't all that easy.

Kerby

[33cabriolet]

If you still have to go through your engine take the crank to a machine shop and shorten it and turn it to take an early pulley,this solves the crank clerance problem and you don't have that ugly thing sticking out of the crank. John

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by 33cabriolet

If you still have to go through your engine take the crank to a machine shop and shorten it and turn it to take an early pulley,this solves the crank clerance problem and you don't have that ugly thing sticking out of the crank. John

Could you bore the 39 t0 48 pulley to fit the 49-53 crank? Are there keyways involved? What is the difference in diameter between the two cranks? I do not know how much meat is on the 39-48 crank shaft pulley.

If the 39-to 48 intake manifolds will bolt on the 49 to 53 then the generator problem might disappear. I think the 39-48 manifolds are better looking and you do not have the breather tube on the oil fill tube which makes a cleaner looking engine.

[rotorwrench]

The 42 thru 48 expanded double pulley can have the forward sheave lathed plum off. This is a common mod to make it work in an early single belt system. The snout on the crank should be near the same length and OD between the 59A types and the 8BA types. I'm not sure about the bolt threads though. The 8BA types are pretty big and they never used a crank ratchet bolt but it might be the same. If anyone knows for sure pass it on.

On the manifold situation you have to be mindfull that the early manifolds on the 8BA type block has no front road draft vent provision other than what was in the original 8BA intake manifold. A PCV valve set up would be a good idea in this situation. Also the fuel pump rods were different between years so a fellow would have to get creative if you wanted to run a mechanical pump set up. The rod would have to be the right dimensions to work correctly.

Kerby

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The 42 thru 48 expanded double pulley can have the forward sheave lathed plum off. This is a common mod to make it work in an early single belt system. The snout on the crank should be near the same length and OD between the 59A types and the 8BA types. I'm not sure about the bolt threads though. The 8BA types are pretty big and they never used a crank ratchet bolt but it might be the same. If anyone knows for sure pass it on.

On the manifold situation you have to be mindfull that the early manifolds on the 8BA type block has no front road draft vent provision other than what was in the original 8BA intake manifold. A PCV valve set up would be a good idea in this situation. Also the fuel pump rods were different between years so a fellow would have to get creative if you wanted to run a mechanical pump set up. The rod would have to be the right dimensions to work correctly.



Kerby

What about a 39 crankshaft pulley? It is a single sheave.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

[32Gnu]

Dont the earlier pulleys serve as the front seal like a SBC balancer? I seem to remember my 59a pulley sliding into the front seal... My 8BA just buts up to the front of the crank.. I could be wrong here.

[cadillacoffin]

neal the 39 pulley will not fit on that generator, the armature is smaller on the earlier gens. also the offset of the belt are completely different. in order to make this work you will have to turn your armature down and make a spacer. i designed a pulley identical to these 2 parts combined but couldnt get a machinest to pop it out for me so i resorted to buying them.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Alternator-Fans,720.html
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flathe...ount,8946.html

in addition to everyone else on topic i made my 8ba fit my 32 by useing the rt pumps, mounting the motor to the tops of the frame. i turned the dual belt crank pulley to a single. and used the parts above in order to have a mechanical fan. its a tight fit but after its all said and done i have around a half inch clearance between the bell housing and the firwall and around 1.5 inches between water necks and between my fan and radiator.

i built my frame to spec from new rails for my 32 truck. i am using an original 32 shell, radiator, firewall, a repop henry hood from rootlieb, and a repop 32 1" drop front crossmember

[334charlie]

thanks these picks are very helpful . what are rt pumps? is that fan adapter home made or available some where?