The Ford Barn

GB SISSON · 03-29-2017, 09:32 PM

I am nearing the end of assembling my 3 1/16" 59 engine that will power my woodie wagon project. This is perhaps my seventh or eighth overhaul, but I never seem to be able to figure out the rear of the intake. I have the intake manifold bolted on and the push rod in and the steel sleeve down. In my Best Gasket set there are two round cork gaskets and a diamond shaped two hole gasket. In what sequence are these used ? Years ago I stupidly broke the ears off a pot metal stand in my impatient youth..... Thanks

flatjack9 · 03-29-2017, 10:05 PM

The diamond shaped two hole gasket is for mounting the pump to the stand. The cork gasket is generally for the glass bowl on the pump. There should be a thin gasket between the stand and the manifold.

GB SISSON · 03-29-2017, 10:47 PM

Thanks! That is helpful. I should have recognized the cork as glass bowl gaskets. I'm sure the other diamond is included. They always pack a lot of gaskets in there to cover all the bases.

slowforty · 03-30-2017, 05:29 AM

Make sure the base of the fuel pump stand is level. The one that was on my 40 was bowed up in the middle. it was pushed up from many years of use. You can check it with a straight edge. That 3/16"loss of push rod travel made a difference

GB SISSON · 03-30-2017, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowforty

Make sure the base of the fuel pump stand is level. The one that was on my 40 was bowed up in the middle. it was pushed up from many years of use. You can check it with a straight edge. That 3/16"loss of push rod travel made a difference

Will do. I have been able to flatten parts when needed using adhesive sanding discs on the deck of my table saw or joiner.

flatheadmurre · 03-30-2017, 10:30 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

And overtightening the fuelpumpstand is another reason for warping them...go easy on it when installing.
This is one place i use some hylomar.

cas3 · 03-30-2017, 10:38 AM

those fuel pump stands get bent when they dont seat over the breather pipe underneath. i'm not really sure which is the correct assembly order-gasket first, pipe next, pump base last etc. i have seen gaskets cut to fit around the pipe, and some fit over or under the pipe. i always check how these fit before tightening things up. also make sure the top lip on the pipe is flat. i'd like to hear some tips from you guys that have done many more than me! thanks, skip

drolston · 03-30-2017, 12:38 PM

I had a slight oil leak around the base of the fuel pump stand before I pulled the engine for overhaul. The ears on the fuel pump stand were bent down a little because the breather pipe was not down flush to the manifold. The shop filed the base of the stand back to level. On reassembly I had to shape and grind the bottom of the breather pipe to get it to go down flush on the manifold. I put on a new thin gasket before installing the breather pipe, and then one on top. Then tightened the pump stand down, going back and forth between sides to barely wrist tight. No slack in the push rod, no bent base, and no oil weep.

One more thing; studs in the manifold make installation a lot easier than cap screws.

GB SISSON · 03-30-2017, 09:26 PM

I saw that with the recess in the base of the pump stand it would be best to install the gasket first, then the tube. I cleaned everything and used aviation permatex and gently tightened. I can see that yet another gasket would have been beneficial. Maybe I will look through my old gasket sets and see if I have another. Thanks!

woodypecker · 04-01-2017, 09:48 PM

I put one together that had been filed and a mix of parts. My fuel pressure was too high flooding my Stromberg carburetor. I added 2 extra gaskets to lower fuel pressure.

GB SISSON · 04-01-2017, 11:24 PM

So the amount of stroke changes the pressure? How about the volume? Anyone ever made a push rod with an adjustable top? Unlike the lifters there would be room for a lock nut!

JM 35 Sedan · 04-02-2017, 09:30 AM

Here's a message that Ken ct/Ken Isidor sent to me today and asked me to post it here for him. Ken can read the forum but he can't post responses..........

"John , I see sooo many guys being given bad information on this. This is the proper, and only way it goes together. First the thin paper gasket goes on the manifold, then the rod is dropped in (short end w/ umbrualla in first) then the baffle tube next, then the stand itself. The top of the baffle tube is slightly flared as to ride on top of the gasket (NOT UNDER IT). The flare of the tube must go into the recess on the bottom of the stand. NO OTHER GASKET IS USED HERE !! The only other gasket used here is the one to mount the pump to the stand. The bottom of the stand must be flat w/some semblance of the recess there. Too much fileing will wipe this off. ken isidor ct. If you could post this on the FB for me it may help some of this wrong info being given out"

GB SISSON · 04-02-2017, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Here's a message that Ken ct/Ken Isidor sent to me today and asked me to post it here for him. Ken can read the forum but he can't post responses..........

"John , I see sooo many guys being given bad information on this. This is the proper, and only way it goes together. First the thin paper gasket goes on the manifold, then the rod is dropped in (short end w/ umbrualla in first) then the baffle tube next, then the stand itself. The top of the baffle tube is slightly flared as to ride on top of the gasket (NOT UNDER IT). The flare of the tube must go into the recess on the bottom of the stand. NO OTHER GASKET IS USED HERE !! The only other gasket used here is the one to mount the pump to the stand. The bottom of the stand must be flat w/some semblance of the recess there. Too much fileing will wipe this off. ken isidor ct. If you could post this on the FB for me it may help some of this wrong info being given out"

I was aware of the danger from too much filing on the base of the stand. It was pretty clear upon close inspection that the flared end of the sleeve must go into that recess. Thanks for sharing this info. When we use an electric pump we are cautioned by everyone to keep the pressure below maybe 4 psi. What keeps the stock mechanical pump at that rate? Why doesn't it put out 8 lbs when the engine is running at 4 grand?

flatjack9 · 04-02-2017, 12:44 PM

I would think pressure is controlled by the spring in the pump chamber.

flatheadmurre · 04-02-2017, 01:49 PM

The beauty of a mechanical pump is that the engine just loads it up to start position.
If the need for fuel is low no need for bypass or pressurerelief valves it just travels back a shorter distance before the pushrod puts it back in the starting position again.
And as stated the spring tension sets the pressure.
If you add an electrical pump before the mechanical producing a higher pressure it will compress the spring and stretch the diaphragm more then it was designed for, that might lead to a failure filling up the crankcase with fuel.

03-29-2017, 09:32 PM	#1
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? I am nearing the end of assembling my 3 1/16" 59 engine that will power my woodie wagon project. This is perhaps my seventh or eighth overhaul, but I never seem to be able to figure out the rear of the intake. I have the intake manifold bolted on and the push rod in and the steel sleeve down. In my Best Gasket set there are two round cork gaskets and a diamond shaped two hole gasket. In what sequence are these used ? Years ago I stupidly broke the ears off a pot metal stand in my impatient youth..... Thanks __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

03-29-2017, 10:05 PM	#2
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,600	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? The diamond shaped two hole gasket is for mounting the pump to the stand. The cork gasket is generally for the glass bowl on the pump. There should be a thin gasket between the stand and the manifold.

03-29-2017, 10:47 PM	#3
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? Thanks! That is helpful. I should have recognized the cork as glass bowl gaskets. I'm sure the other diamond is included. They always pack a lot of gaskets in there to cover all the bases. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

03-30-2017, 05:29 AM	#4
slowforty Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tinley Park Ill Posts: 1,176	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? Make sure the base of the fuel pump stand is level. The one that was on my 40 was bowed up in the middle. it was pushed up from many years of use. You can check it with a straight edge. That 3/16"loss of push rod travel made a difference

03-30-2017, 10:30 AM	#6
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) And overtightening the fuelpumpstand is another reason for warping them...go easy on it when installing. This is one place i use some hylomar.

03-30-2017, 10:38 AM	#7
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Beverly Kansas Posts: 5,297	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? those fuel pump stands get bent when they dont seat over the breather pipe underneath. i'm not really sure which is the correct assembly order-gasket first, pipe next, pump base last etc. i have seen gaskets cut to fit around the pipe, and some fit over or under the pipe. i always check how these fit before tightening things up. also make sure the top lip on the pipe is flat. i'd like to hear some tips from you guys that have done many more than me! thanks, skip

03-30-2017, 12:38 PM	#8
drolston Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 1,811	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? I had a slight oil leak around the base of the fuel pump stand before I pulled the engine for overhaul. The ears on the fuel pump stand were bent down a little because the breather pipe was not down flush to the manifold. The shop filed the base of the stand back to level. On reassembly I had to shape and grind the bottom of the breather pipe to get it to go down flush on the manifold. I put on a new thin gasket before installing the breather pipe, and then one on top. Then tightened the pump stand down, going back and forth between sides to barely wrist tight. No slack in the push rod, no bent base, and no oil weep. One more thing; studs in the manifold make installation a lot easier than cap screws.

03-30-2017, 09:26 PM	#9
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? I saw that with the recess in the base of the pump stand it would be best to install the gasket first, then the tube. I cleaned everything and used aviation permatex and gently tightened. I can see that yet another gasket would have been beneficial. Maybe I will look through my old gasket sets and see if I have another. Thanks! __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

04-01-2017, 09:48 PM	#10
woodypecker Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Clarkston, Michigan Posts: 239	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? I put one together that had been filed and a mix of parts. My fuel pressure was too high flooding my Stromberg carburetor. I added 2 extra gaskets to lower fuel pressure.

04-01-2017, 11:24 PM	#11
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? So the amount of stroke changes the pressure? How about the volume? Anyone ever made a push rod with an adjustable top? Unlike the lifters there would be room for a lock nut! __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

04-02-2017, 09:30 AM	#12
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,876	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? Here's a message that Ken ct/Ken Isidor sent to me today and asked me to post it here for him. Ken can read the forum but he can't post responses.......... "John , I see sooo many guys being given bad information on this. This is the proper, and only way it goes together. First the thin paper gasket goes on the manifold, then the rod is dropped in (short end w/ umbrualla in first) then the baffle tube next, then the stand itself. The top of the baffle tube is slightly flared as to ride on top of the gasket (NOT UNDER IT). The flare of the tube must go into the recess on the bottom of the stand. NO OTHER GASKET IS USED HERE !! The only other gasket used here is the one to mount the pump to the stand. The bottom of the stand must be flat w/some semblance of the recess there. Too much fileing will wipe this off. ken isidor ct. If you could post this on the FB for me it may help some of this wrong info being given out" __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein*

04-02-2017, 12:44 PM	#14
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,600	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? I would think pressure is controlled by the spring in the pump chamber.

04-02-2017, 01:49 PM	#15
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: Fuel pump stand which gaskets ? The beauty of a mechanical pump is that the engine just loads it up to start position. If the need for fuel is low no need for bypass or pressurerelief valves it just travels back a shorter distance before the pushrod puts it back in the starting position again. And as stated the spring tension sets the pressure. If you add an electrical pump before the mechanical producing a higher pressure it will compress the spring and stretch the diaphragm more then it was designed for, that might lead to a failure filling up the crankcase with fuel.