The Ford Barn

jchochole · 02-14-2016, 02:22 PM

Hey Guys,
I have a '29 engine that has many, many miles of old oil in it. I heard from a seasoned car guy to add about a quart of kerosene to the oil and allow the motor to idle for a minute or so- then draining it. After that, continually flushing new 30wt oil until cleaner.

Any validity or experience to this method?
Thanks,
Jim

Mikeinnj · 02-14-2016, 02:38 PM

Do it the correct way, drop the oil pan and clean it out. Don't forget to remove the windage tray and get the gunk under it. You also might want to check the rod and main clearances and rebuild your oil pump while you are in there.

Mike V. Florida · 02-14-2016, 02:44 PM

Drop the pan, see what you have. Why take a chance of clogging the pump or clogging the tubes to the bearings. If the oil sat for a few years maybe flush but unless you know of a time when it was clean I would not do it.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 02-14-2016, 03:11 PM

Think about how much oil( how many changes) it will take to, not just flush the kerosene, but the guck as well. On top of the risk Mike mentions!

Tom Wesenberg · 02-14-2016, 03:20 PM

About 10 years ago I drained the oil on an unknown engine, then put in 5 quarts of diesel and made an air bubbler for the drain plug. I let it agitate with air for an hour, then drained and repeated the process twice more. Then I pulled the pan to see how well it worked. It still had an inch or more of thick sludge.

Don't waste your time with any quick fix................just drop the pan.

C26Pinelake · 02-14-2016, 03:47 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Drop the pan, see what you have. Why take a chance of clogging the pump or clogging the tubes to the bearings. If the oil sat for a few years maybe flush but unless you know of a time when it was clean I would not do it.

I agree with Mike. Wayne

C26Pinelake · 02-14-2016, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

About 10 years ago I drained the oil on an unknown engine, then put in 5 quarts of diesel and made an air bubbler for the drain plug. I let it agitate with air for an hour, then drained and repeated the process twice more. Then I pulled the pan to see how well it worked. It still had an inch or more of thick sludge.

Don't waste your time with any quick fix................just drop the pan.

The voice of experience and intelligence. When Tom speaks people should listen! Wayne

Synchro909 · 02-14-2016, 04:11 PM

Like everybody above says, DO IT RIGHT - DROP THE PAN. Who would ever listen to a used car guy anyway?

H. L. Chauvin · 02-14-2016, 04:38 PM

FWIW Possibility:

1. Say it took 20 years to collect abrasive silicone sand, dirt, and piston/ring iron filing buried in thick dirty grease sludge after using non-detergent oil for 20 years and not changing oil often.

2. Next ..... Add kerosene which will no doubt get heated up and dissolve some crud after oil and kerosene mix is heated and stirred up profusely by rotating connecting rods which act like an electric high RPM egg beater in a pancake mix.

3. Loose harmful solid abrasive non-liquid deposits get freed up and circulate through the 0.0015" clearances of moving engine parts at multiple RPM's, maybe at same velocities as that of cylinder honing stones in a rotating electrical drill.

4. This is in no way, not even in a twinkle of an eye, to be taken as trying to advise anyone what to do with kerosene ...... however, it may be considered to be just a little similar to Fox News ...... We report ...... you decide.

Hope this helps.

ursus · 02-14-2016, 08:22 PM

I think Mr Chauvin has a useful insight into this question. Whenever I have cleaned out a pan of an old survivor Model A engine I have been amazed at the amount of potentially abrasive material that is embedded in the sludge. In an engine with no oil filter, that sludge has served a purpose.

C26Pinelake · 02-14-2016, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

FWIW Possibility:

1. Say it took 20 years to collect abrasive silicone sand, dirt, and piston/ring iron filing buried in thick dirty grease sludge after using non-detergent oil for 20 years and not changing oil often.

2. Next ..... Add kerosene which will no doubt get heated up and dissolve some crud after oil and kerosene mix is heated and stirred up profusely by rotating connecting rods which act like an electric high RPM egg beater in a pancake mix.

3. Loose harmful solid abrasive non-liquid deposits get freed up and circulate through the 0.0015" clearances of moving engine parts at multiple RPM's, maybe at same velocities as that of cylinder honing stones in a rotating electrical drill.

4. This is in no way, not even in a twinkle of an eye, to be taken as trying to advise anyone what to do with kerosene ...... however, it may be considered to be just a little similar to Fox News ...... We report ...... you decide.

Hope this helps.

Mr. Chauvin is a walking, talking book of knowledge, be prudent and follow his advice, he will never lead you astray. Wayne

jchochole · 02-14-2016, 10:57 PM

Well- alrighty then, I shall pull the pan. I have the Model A mechanics books by Les Andrews so I'll follow his procedure.

Thanks to all,
Jim

Tom Wesenberg · 02-14-2016, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchochole

Well- alrighty then, I shall pull the pan. I have the Model A mechanics books by Les Andrews so I'll follow his procedure.

Thanks to all,
Jim

Just watch how tight you make the pan bolts. Someone said that book lists them as 20 foot pounds, but that should be inch pounds. Common sense tightening will do the trick.

Coneross-A · 02-15-2016, 12:18 AM

I am still new to the Model A world, but I think I can offer some advice on this. I dropped the oil pan in my car because I had no idea of the history of the car. Glad I did because there was a lot of sludge in the pan, not just on the bottom, but in the baffles as well.

You will need a new set of rail gaskets as well as front and rear gaskets. Permatex gasket sealant is recommended also. Keep in mind that when you drop the oil pan, the pump comes out with it, so be ready for this. Also, you will want to remove the baffle for cleaning the oil pan. I have seen instructions written somewhere to pry it out, but if it's stuck, prying will bend it. I took a cut off section of an old shovel handle and put it through the bottom of the pan. One pop with a dead blow hammer, and the baffle was out. (This is now an official component of my Model A tool collection)

All in all, this is not a difficult task, I hope it goes well for you.

redmodelt · 02-15-2016, 01:46 AM

Turn the pan upside down over a sheet of plastic and drop on the floor with a little umph. Baffle should pop right out. Be ready for a little splatter.

Mike V. Florida · 02-15-2016, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Turn the pan upside down over a sheet of plastic and drop on the floor with a little umph. Baffle should pop right out. Be ready for a little splatter.

You can also place the pan in a bag before dropping it to reduce splatter.

tinman080 · 02-15-2016, 05:42 AM

Remember when turning a pan or cover bolt when you get to the point where you are thinking'' Gee I don't wanna break this off- you are at that point.....'' Ask me how I know....All makes and models fall under this natural law....LOL

bikejunk · 02-15-2016, 08:03 AM

Please do what the above posters say- My current project is a 1914 Maxwell the engine turned by hand great and looked like it ran yesterday... removed the head to find nut shells (handful) in the #1 and #3 piston and a bunch of leaves and a crackerjack toy in the pan, took hours n hours to remove the head but when I saw what was inside an otherwise clean,tight engine glad I did !!

Tinbasher · 02-15-2016, 10:33 AM

I knew a man that would do the Kerosene trick every oil change. Ran a 1956 Dodge Station wagon almost 1,000,000 miles. I could see it working here, but not on a engine you know nothing about.

H. L. Chauvin · 02-15-2016, 01:22 PM

Similar to what Mr. Tinbasher is saying about a meaningful "cleaning trick" & very clean lubrication that works with detergent oil used in "clean" engines:

I know of an owner who has about five large trucks hauling tons of limestone daily who changes "detergent" oil far more often than that recommended by the truck manufacturer ............. plus every other oil change, he flushes with added automatic transmission fluid (ATM) to keep "all" of his oil looking like honey as opposed to dark coffee.

He claims his overstressed engines and drive train rebuilds and repairs are scheduled at about 1/10th as often as his large truck owning competitors ....... plus, as high as oil is, fresh clean oil under such stress is far cheaper than rebuilds ...... and another added bonus ....... far less down time waiting for trucks to be repaired and engines rebuilt.

02-14-2016, 02:38 PM	#2
Mikeinnj Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 1,262	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? Do it the correct way, drop the oil pan and clean it out. Don't forget to remove the windage tray and get the gunk under it. You also might want to check the rod and main clearances and rebuild your oil pump while you are in there.

02-14-2016, 03:11 PM	#4
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,365	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? Think about how much oil( how many changes) it will take to, not just flush the kerosene, but the guck as well. On top of the risk Mike mentions!

02-14-2016, 03:20 PM	#5
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? About 10 years ago I drained the oil on an unknown engine, then put in 5 quarts of diesel and made an air bubbler for the drain plug. I let it agitate with air for an hour, then drained and repeated the process twice more. Then I pulled the pan to see how well it worked. It still had an inch or more of thick sludge. Don't waste your time with any quick fix................just drop the pan.

02-14-2016, 04:11 PM	#8
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,565	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? Like everybody above says, DO IT RIGHT - DROP THE PAN. Who would ever listen to a used car guy anyway? __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

02-14-2016, 04:38 PM	#9
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? FWIW Possibility: 1. Say it took 20 years to collect abrasive silicone sand, dirt, and piston/ring iron filing buried in thick dirty grease sludge after using non-detergent oil for 20 years and not changing oil often. 2. Next ..... Add kerosene which will no doubt get heated up and dissolve some crud after oil and kerosene mix is heated and stirred up profusely by rotating connecting rods which act like an electric high RPM egg beater in a pancake mix. 3. Loose harmful solid abrasive non-liquid deposits get freed up and circulate through the 0.0015" clearances of moving engine parts at multiple RPM's, maybe at same velocities as that of cylinder honing stones in a rotating electrical drill. 4. This is in no way, not even in a twinkle of an eye, to be taken as trying to advise anyone what to do with kerosene ...... however, it may be considered to be just a little similar to Fox News ...... We report ...... you decide. Hope this helps. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 02-14-2016 at 04:40 PM. Reason: typo

02-14-2016, 02:22 PM	#1
jchochole Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oswego, IL Posts: 394	Kerosene in Engine Oil? Hey Guys, I have a '29 engine that has many, many miles of old oil in it. I heard from a seasoned car guy to add about a quart of kerosene to the oil and allow the motor to idle for a minute or so- then draining it. After that, continually flushing new 30wt oil until cleaner. Any validity or experience to this method? Thanks, Jim __________________ "Whether you think you can, or think you can't- you're right." H. Ford

02-14-2016, 02:44 PM	#3
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? Drop the pan, see what you have. Why take a chance of clogging the pump or clogging the tubes to the bearings. If the oil sat for a few years maybe flush but unless you know of a time when it was clean I would not do it. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

02-14-2016, 08:22 PM	#10
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,381	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? I think Mr Chauvin has a useful insight into this question. Whenever I have cleaned out a pan of an old survivor Model A engine I have been amazed at the amount of potentially abrasive material that is embedded in the sludge. In an engine with no oil filter, that sludge has served a purpose.

02-14-2016, 10:57 PM	#12
jchochole Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oswego, IL Posts: 394	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? Well- alrighty then, I shall pull the pan. I have the Model A mechanics books by Les Andrews so I'll follow his procedure. Thanks to all, Jim __________________ "Whether you think you can, or think you can't- you're right." H. Ford

02-15-2016, 12:18 AM	#14
Coneross-A Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 52	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? I am still new to the Model A world, but I think I can offer some advice on this. I dropped the oil pan in my car because I had no idea of the history of the car. Glad I did because there was a lot of sludge in the pan, not just on the bottom, but in the baffles as well. You will need a new set of rail gaskets as well as front and rear gaskets. Permatex gasket sealant is recommended also. Keep in mind that when you drop the oil pan, the pump comes out with it, so be ready for this. Also, you will want to remove the baffle for cleaning the oil pan. I have seen instructions written somewhere to pry it out, but if it's stuck, prying will bend it. I took a cut off section of an old shovel handle and put it through the bottom of the pan. One pop with a dead blow hammer, and the baffle was out. (This is now an official component of my Model A tool collection) All in all, this is not a difficult task, I hope it goes well for you.

02-15-2016, 01:46 AM	#15
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,361	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? Turn the pan upside down over a sheet of plastic and drop on the floor with a little umph. Baffle should pop right out. Be ready for a little splatter.

02-15-2016, 05:42 AM	#17
tinman080 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Forest, Virginia Posts: 250	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? Remember when turning a pan or cover bolt when you get to the point where you are thinking'' Gee I don't wanna break this off- you are at that point.....'' Ask me how I know....All makes and models fall under this natural law....LOL __________________ Just Passin' Thru.....Slowly!

02-15-2016, 08:03 AM	#18
bikejunk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: beautiful down town Passaic NJ Posts: 293	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? Please do what the above posters say- My current project is a 1914 Maxwell the engine turned by hand great and looked like it ran yesterday... removed the head to find nut shells (handful) in the #1 and #3 piston and a bunch of leaves and a crackerjack toy in the pan, took hours n hours to remove the head but when I saw what was inside an otherwise clean,tight engine glad I did !!

02-15-2016, 10:33 AM	#19
Tinbasher Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Innisfil, Ontario Canada Posts: 1,177	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? I knew a man that would do the Kerosene trick every oil change. Ran a 1956 Dodge Station wagon almost 1,000,000 miles. I could see it working here, but not on a engine you know nothing about.

02-15-2016, 01:22 PM	#20
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Kerosene in Engine Oil? Similar to what Mr. Tinbasher is saying about a meaningful "cleaning trick" & very clean lubrication that works with detergent oil used in "clean" engines: I know of an owner who has about five large trucks hauling tons of limestone daily who changes "detergent" oil far more often than that recommended by the truck manufacturer ............. plus every other oil change, he flushes with added automatic transmission fluid (ATM) to keep "all" of his oil looking like honey as opposed to dark coffee. He claims his overstressed engines and drive train rebuilds and repairs are scheduled at about 1/10th as often as his large truck owning competitors ....... plus, as high as oil is, fresh clean oil under such stress is far cheaper than rebuilds ...... and another added bonus ....... far less down time waiting for trucks to be repaired and engines rebuilt.