The Ford Barn

jcgraybeal · 06-10-2015, 01:14 PM

Hello All,

I have a 1928 and it is overheating at idle - after about 10 minutes the water boils over.
What is a good temperature drop across the radiator? I have about a 7 degree drop measured with a laser.

I have tried the Spark the Mixture (both lean and rich).

Thanks for the help!

John Graybeal

mcorrell · 06-10-2015, 02:06 PM

I get a 30-35 degree drop also measured with a laser. I am not sure of the radiator's origin, but is likely an older aftermarket piece. It's been in the car over 25 years, that I know.

1931 flamingo · 06-10-2015, 06:40 PM

Are you idling with the spark lever all the way up??
Paul in CT

BILL WILLIAMSON · 06-10-2015, 07:10 PM

Try a radiator shop BACKFLUSH!!! (It's CHEEP!)
Bill W.

jcgraybeal · 06-10-2015, 07:33 PM

I have flushed the radiator.

I idle with the spark lever all the way down, that is "advanced" I believe.

The radiator was painted recently by the former owner. I think the paint may be insulating the radiator.

Thanks everyone!

John

Mike V. Florida · 06-10-2015, 10:41 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jcgraybeal

I have flushed the radiator.

I idle with the spark lever all the way down, that is "advanced" I believe.

The radiator was painted recently by the former owner. I think the paint may be insulating the radiator.

Thanks everyone!

John

No, all the way up. You need to get the model A owners manual reprint sold by all the vendors. Until then here is a copy on line,

http://www.motormayhem.net/model-a-f...owners-manual/

Jim/GA · 06-11-2015, 03:24 AM

To answer your original question, 7 degrees drop between top of radiator and bottom is not enough. Paint is not good. Radiator shop uses special paint. Might need a new radiator to get desired heat transfer.

You should be able to idle with the spark lever 1/2 way down all day.

Lever up to start, 1/2 way down once it starts is a good plan. Where you go from there once you are driving depends a lot on engine, how you have it timed, how fast you are going. Somewhere around 3/4 of the way down to all the way down would work.

Tom Wesenberg · 06-11-2015, 07:55 AM

My 1928 with the original round tube radiator shows a 20* drop from top to bottom. A new radiator would likely show an even greater drop.

eagle · 06-11-2015, 10:19 PM

Bring your radiator to any reputable radiator shop. Make sure they understand that it cannot be pressurized as they would normally do.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 06-12-2015, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle

Bring your radiator to any reputable radiator shop. Make sure they understand that it cannot be pressurized as they would normally do.

They'd LAFF at you if you made that statement---They ALWAYS pressurize ALL radiators, to check for LEAKS! Of course, LESSER amounts of pressure on "OLD SHAKEY" radumators.
Bill W.

eagle · 06-12-2015, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

They'd LAFF at you if you made that statement:D---They ALWAYS pressurize ALL radiators, to check for LEAKS! Of course, LESSER amounts of pressure on "OLD SHAKEY" radumators.
Bill W.

Thats your first clue that its time to quietly walk out the door.

TinCup · 06-12-2015, 08:59 AM

There are probably thousands of posts on the barn about radiators and overheating. Take advantage of the search feature and read some of the past experiences.
www.modelabasics.com has great interactive animations on the functions of your car. Until then sounds like it needs to be flushed out as a start. Don't see where you are located but if there is a local club in your area I would consult and find where they are getting their radiator work done.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 06-12-2015, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle

Thats your first clue that its time to quietly walk out the door.

Eagle,
Hope you don't think I'm being a smart ass "know it all", I have a friend, Danny, that runs a radiator shop & I've spent quite a bit of time there. Gregg, my deceased Son, used to work there, part time, R & Ring radiators & heater cores.
Bill W.

eagle · 06-13-2015, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Eagle,
Hope you don't think I'm being a smart ass "know it all", I have a friend, Danny, that runs a radiator shop & I've spent quite a bit of time there. Gregg, my deceased Son, used to work there, part time, R & Ring radiators & heater cores.
Bill W.

No, no, no. I laughed when I read your comment. However, on a serious note when seeking out service of any kind for a model A, usually a few seconds into the conversation you get a real good feel for whether or not you should quietly walk away or trust your car to them.

jcgraybeal · 06-16-2015, 07:06 AM

1. Re-flushed the radiator with White Vinegar and water-water very clean.
2. Flow check it - poured in 1.5 gallons of water drained out in 4 seconds.
3. Removed radiator and tried to take to repair shop. Both shops were reluctant to “boil” it because of its age and could not give me an answer on how to strip paint off.
4. Stripped paint off of the fins with Napa Auto Paint Stripper then hosed off (took 3 cans)
-great results getting the great looking paint off.
5. Re installed radiator - no leaks - all good there.
6. Temp drop across the radiator did not change, still about 10 degrees. - the radiator simply not working radiating the heat away

7. NOW there is a water leak from the shaft of the water pump!

eagle · 06-16-2015, 08:53 AM

3. Removed radiator and tried to take to repair shop. Both shops were reluctant to “boil” it because of its age
A plugged up radiator is worth scrap price only, and worse it can ruin your engine. Call around to some shops until you find one that is confident in rodding out an old radiator, or buy a new one.

Tom Wesenberg · 06-16-2015, 10:32 AM

Yes, the vinegar will make an original pump leak by stripping away the grease. I'd regrease the lead packing rings ans snug them to the shaft and try it. If you have a pump with a seal, the rusty vinegar may have eaten away the seal. After the vinegar treatment I used a new rear bushing with a double lip seal, and the two lead packing rings in the brass packing nut. My pump is again leakless.

TinCup · 06-16-2015, 10:54 AM

When I was chasing my overheating issue a wise man (Purdy Swoft) told me to stop chasing what it might be and concentrate on the most important item. Your radiator for whatever reason is not cooling. Even if you have it rodded out and clear any blockage that is only a part of the equation. If the fins are no longer attached to the tubes then they will not cool. Many of these have broken away and no longer dissipate the heat. I am a big supporter of Bergs Radiators but there are many other radiators out there. If there is a local club someone may have an extra they might sell you as well.

06-10-2015, 01:14 PM	#1
jcgraybeal Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 5	Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating Hello All, I have a 1928 and it is overheating at idle - after about 10 minutes the water boils over. What is a good temperature drop across the radiator? I have about a 7 degree drop measured with a laser. I have tried the Spark the Mixture (both lean and rich). Thanks for the help! John Graybeal

06-10-2015, 02:06 PM	#2
mcorrell Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Canotn, NC Posts: 163	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating I get a 30-35 degree drop also measured with a laser. I am not sure of the radiator's origin, but is likely an older aftermarket piece. It's been in the car over 25 years, that I know. __________________ 1929 (early) Model A Special Coupe - restored to original 1964 Buick Wildcat convertible

06-10-2015, 06:40 PM	#3
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,397	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating Are you idling with the spark lever all the way up?? Paul in CT

06-10-2015, 07:10 PM	#4
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating Try a radiator shop BACKFLUSH!!! (It's CHEEP!) Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

06-10-2015, 07:33 PM	#5
jcgraybeal Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 5	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating I have flushed the radiator. I idle with the spark lever all the way down, that is "advanced" I believe. The radiator was painted recently by the former owner. I think the paint may be insulating the radiator. Thanks everyone! John

06-11-2015, 03:24 AM	#7
Jim/GA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Young Harris, GA Posts: 1,844	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating To answer your original question, 7 degrees drop between top of radiator and bottom is not enough. Paint is not good. Radiator shop uses special paint. Might need a new radiator to get desired heat transfer. You should be able to idle with the spark lever 1/2 way down all day. Lever up to start, 1/2 way down once it starts is a good plan. Where you go from there once you are driving depends a lot on engine, how you have it timed, how fast you are going. Somewhere around 3/4 of the way down to all the way down would work. __________________ Jim Cannon Former MAFCA Technical Director "Have a Model A day!"

06-11-2015, 07:55 AM	#8
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating My 1928 with the original round tube radiator shows a 20* drop from top to bottom. A new radiator would likely show an even greater drop.

06-11-2015, 10:19 PM	#9
eagle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eagle Bend, MN Posts: 2,030	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating Bring your radiator to any reputable radiator shop. Make sure they understand that it cannot be pressurized as they would normally do. __________________ "There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."

06-12-2015, 08:59 AM	#12
TinCup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: OKC / Tonkawa, Ok. Posts: 1,977	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating There are probably thousands of posts on the barn about radiators and overheating. Take advantage of the search feature and read some of the past experiences. www.modelabasics.com has great interactive animations on the functions of your car. Until then sounds like it needs to be flushed out as a start. Don't see where you are located but if there is a local club in your area I would consult and find where they are getting their radiator work done. __________________ Oklahoma City Model A Restorers Group.

06-16-2015, 07:06 AM	#15
jcgraybeal Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 5	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating 1. Re-flushed the radiator with White Vinegar and water-water very clean. 2. Flow check it - poured in 1.5 gallons of water drained out in 4 seconds. 3. Removed radiator and tried to take to repair shop. Both shops were reluctant to “boil” it because of its age and could not give me an answer on how to strip paint off. 4. Stripped paint off of the fins with Napa Auto Paint Stripper then hosed off (took 3 cans) -great results getting the great looking paint off. 5. Re installed radiator - no leaks - all good there. 6. Temp drop across the radiator did not change, still about 10 degrees. - the radiator simply not working radiating the heat away 7. NOW there is a water leak from the shaft of the water pump!

06-16-2015, 08:53 AM	#16
eagle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eagle Bend, MN Posts: 2,030	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating 3. Removed radiator and tried to take to repair shop. Both shops were reluctant to “boil” it because of its age A plugged up radiator is worth scrap price only, and worse it can ruin your engine. Call around to some shops until you find one that is confident in rodding out an old radiator, or buy a new one. __________________ "There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."

06-16-2015, 10:32 AM	#17
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating Yes, the vinegar will make an original pump leak by stripping away the grease. I'd regrease the lead packing rings ans snug them to the shaft and try it. If you have a pump with a seal, the rusty vinegar may have eaten away the seal. After the vinegar treatment I used a new rear bushing with a double lip seal, and the two lead packing rings in the brass packing nut. My pump is again leakless.

06-16-2015, 10:54 AM	#18
TinCup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: OKC / Tonkawa, Ok. Posts: 1,977	Re: Radiator Temperature Drop - Overheating When I was chasing my overheating issue a wise man (Purdy Swoft) told me to stop chasing what it might be and concentrate on the most important item. Your radiator for whatever reason is not cooling. Even if you have it rodded out and clear any blockage that is only a part of the equation. If the fins are no longer attached to the tubes then they will not cool. Many of these have broken away and no longer dissipate the heat. I am a big supporter of Bergs Radiators but there are many other radiators out there. If there is a local club someone may have an extra they might sell you as well. __________________ Oklahoma City Model A Restorers Group.