The Ford Barn

khnaess · 03-21-2015, 12:55 PM

Hello
I have a 1937 Ford V860. It is sometimes difficult to get the gear stick out of 1.gear and into neutral and likewise from reverse to neutral. I have to pull the gearshift hard. Seems like it stucks in the gear. It is no problem to go from neutral and into gear so I suppose the clutch works fine. There is no problem when driving the car.
Anyone?

khnaess · 06-06-2015, 05:21 AM

Hello again!
I still seek some help on this matter. New information is that this happens only when the engine is hot. When the car is cold I can easily change gear. But after driving a while the problems begin. I have to pull the gear lever to get it out of gear. This is only a problem when the car stands still. Easy to put into gear, but hard to get out.
I have got one tip from another enthusiast that it could be the clutch disk getting to close to the flyweel.
There are som noise from the gearbox when driving so i guess it is worn, but I dont know if this is a gearbox or clutch issue...
Any other opinions?

Charlie ny · 06-06-2015, 07:09 AM

kh,
The early 60 hp trans were crude and had bushings in the cluster rather than
rollers. Don't be shocked to find straight cut gears (esp in Europe). The shift stick
has a little bend near the tip that has to be there so the ball on the very end can
catch the fork. It is my suggestion the you begin looking for a later design trans
with improved 'everything' inside. If you choose to rebuild your existing trans check
with Mac VanPelt and John Saturno...I sold all my 60 hp trans goodies to them.
I know of a later trans in the States if you are interested. I can get the owners
information to you if you wish........be mindful you will have to provide a freight
forwarder. Sorry for dragging this out.
Please use my personal email [email protected] if you wish to investigate the
later trans..........I'm not real sure it is even for sale at this point.
Charlie ny

khnaess · 06-06-2015, 12:29 PM

Thanks for the information Charlie. I will come back to you if I need a new transmission.
Any other opinions regarding the cause of this problem? Still hoping for a quick fix without replacing the trans.

khnaess · 10-27-2015, 03:16 PM

Hello again!
Autumn is here and there is more time to investigate my gearbox/clucth issue.
As said before, I have problems getting the car out of gear, this problem increase when the engine is hot. This could be a gearbox issue but I like to sort out if it could be the clutch. A flathead veteran told me this could be the clutch disk travel to slow on the gear shaft and therefore getting to close to the flywheel. This could cause moment on the gearshaft and difficulties to disengage gear. I was told I could try to clean the splines on the gearshaft through the inspection hole on the clutch house. Either with compressed air or with break cleaner solution. But as the picture shows I dont see the splines from there. Is it possible to do this job from this position or do I have to pull the gearbox?

rotorwrench · 10-27-2015, 05:44 PM

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Generally there is enough play on the clutch disk hub that it will easily release. One possibility is the pilot bearing can wear out whether ball or bushing type and let the trans input get into a bind with the main shaft or cause clutch release problems. This can affect the low reverse slider on the main shaft but it would have to be moving a good bit. Any other bearing problem in there could also affect the placement of the gears. The shifter top may need a good looking after for detent function & condition of low reverse shift rod in the top housing. May also be a problem with the low reverse slider gear fit on the mainshaft.

There are usually more problems keeping them in gear than there is getting them out of gear.

khnaess · 10-28-2015, 12:39 PM

Thanks for answer rotorwrench!
About cleaning the gear shaft splines through the inspection hole with air or break cleaner;is this a possible solution or should I forget it? I cant see the splines , they hidden behind the throw out bearing. I can see grease on the throw out bearing and close by. If I use compressed air in the clutch house I am afraid that the grease transfers to the clutchdisk making more trouble...

Alaska Jim · 10-28-2015, 01:45 PM

I agree with rotorwrench that the problem could be the pilot bushing/bearing that is pressed into the end of the crankshaft. as far as cleaning the input shaft splines, I don't think you can get to them with out pulling the trans, and I don't think it would cure your problem. is problem something that has been a problem as long as you have owned the vehicle, or something that has recently started being a problem? I would also agree with rotor wrench that an inspection of the shift tower would be the place to start looking, as it is probably the easiest thing to get to.

khnaess · 10-28-2015, 05:02 PM

thank you Alaska Jim for your comment. The car has not been mine for a very long time and I have only driven it a few miles. The previous owner claim he never had any problem with this (of course..) but I really dont know for sure if this is true. I changed the gear oil when I got the car but used Gulf gear oil SAE 140 so it should be ok.
I better take a look at the shift tower now that I already has pulled the floor.
Some questions about removing the shift tower:
1. Are there any mistakes to do? Or is it just to take out the 4 bolts and lift the shifter housing away? What about the shift lever, will it stay in the tower? Any risk of parts falling of and down into the tranny?
2. I dont have a new gasket when reinstalling the tower. Is it allowed to use RTV sealant instead?

rotorwrench · 10-28-2015, 05:52 PM

The only problem you may have is if you have to remove the shift lever. The cap that holds the lever can be screwed off the tower but watch for the pin that aligns the lever. If it is loose in its bore, it can fall into the transmission. The shift forks will pull right up out of the synchronizer and low/reverse gear positions when you pull the shift cover off.

You should be able to purchase gasket materials from an auto parts supply shop near to you. You can cut a piece that is just larger than the housing deck flange. Hold the piece over the flange opening then take a small hammer and lightly tap around the edges to get the shape. This with usually allow the extra gasket material to be easily removed from the pattern. Make a hole punch from a small piece of tubing to cut the bolt holes out. Tap out the inside of the deck flange and remove that to form a decent gasket.

You can use RTV but it might make the shift forks fit tighter in their grooves than they should. They were designed to have a bit more thickness between the housing and the case than the RTV might provide.

03-21-2015, 12:55 PM	#1
khnaess Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Norway Posts: 68	tricky transmission Hello I have a 1937 Ford V860. It is sometimes difficult to get the gear stick out of 1.gear and into neutral and likewise from reverse to neutral. I have to pull the gearshift hard. Seems like it stucks in the gear. It is no problem to go from neutral and into gear so I suppose the clutch works fine. There is no problem when driving the car. Anyone?

06-06-2015, 05:21 AM	#2
khnaess Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Norway Posts: 68	Re: tricky transmission Hello again! I still seek some help on this matter. New information is that this happens only when the engine is hot. When the car is cold I can easily change gear. But after driving a while the problems begin. I have to pull the gear lever to get it out of gear. This is only a problem when the car stands still. Easy to put into gear, but hard to get out. I have got one tip from another enthusiast that it could be the clutch disk getting to close to the flyweel. There are som noise from the gearbox when driving so i guess it is worn, but I dont know if this is a gearbox or clutch issue... Any other opinions?

06-06-2015, 07:09 AM	#3
Charlie ny BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,019	Re: tricky transmission kh, The early 60 hp trans were crude and had bushings in the cluster rather than rollers. Don't be shocked to find straight cut gears (esp in Europe). The shift stick has a little bend near the tip that has to be there so the ball on the very end can catch the fork. It is my suggestion the you begin looking for a later design trans with improved 'everything' inside. If you choose to rebuild your existing trans check with Mac VanPelt and John Saturno...I sold all my 60 hp trans goodies to them. I know of a later trans in the States if you are interested. I can get the owners information to you if you wish........be mindful you will have to provide a freight forwarder. Sorry for dragging this out. Please use my personal email [email protected] if you wish to investigate the later trans..........I'm not real sure it is even for sale at this point. Charlie ny

06-06-2015, 12:29 PM	#4
khnaess Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Norway Posts: 68	Re: tricky transmission Thanks for the information Charlie. I will come back to you if I need a new transmission. Any other opinions regarding the cause of this problem? Still hoping for a quick fix without replacing the trans.

10-27-2015, 05:44 PM	#6
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,534	Re: tricky transmission Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Generally there is enough play on the clutch disk hub that it will easily release. One possibility is the pilot bearing can wear out whether ball or bushing type and let the trans input get into a bind with the main shaft or cause clutch release problems. This can affect the low reverse slider on the main shaft but it would have to be moving a good bit. Any other bearing problem in there could also affect the placement of the gears. The shifter top may need a good looking after for detent function & condition of low reverse shift rod in the top housing. May also be a problem with the low reverse slider gear fit on the mainshaft. There are usually more problems keeping them in gear than there is getting them out of gear.

10-28-2015, 12:39 PM	#7
khnaess Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Norway Posts: 68	Re: tricky transmission Thanks for answer rotorwrench! About cleaning the gear shaft splines through the inspection hole with air or break cleaner;is this a possible solution or should I forget it? I cant see the splines , they hidden behind the throw out bearing. I can see grease on the throw out bearing and close by. If I use compressed air in the clutch house I am afraid that the grease transfers to the clutchdisk making more trouble...

10-28-2015, 01:45 PM	#8
Alaska Jim Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 1,576	Re: tricky transmission I agree with rotorwrench that the problem could be the pilot bushing/bearing that is pressed into the end of the crankshaft. as far as cleaning the input shaft splines, I don't think you can get to them with out pulling the trans, and I don't think it would cure your problem. is problem something that has been a problem as long as you have owned the vehicle, or something that has recently started being a problem? I would also agree with rotor wrench that an inspection of the shift tower would be the place to start looking, as it is probably the easiest thing to get to.

10-28-2015, 05:02 PM	#9
khnaess Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Norway Posts: 68	Re: tricky transmission thank you Alaska Jim for your comment. The car has not been mine for a very long time and I have only driven it a few miles. The previous owner claim he never had any problem with this (of course..) but I really dont know for sure if this is true. I changed the gear oil when I got the car but used Gulf gear oil SAE 140 so it should be ok. I better take a look at the shift tower now that I already has pulled the floor. Some questions about removing the shift tower: 1. Are there any mistakes to do? Or is it just to take out the 4 bolts and lift the shifter housing away? What about the shift lever, will it stay in the tower? Any risk of parts falling of and down into the tranny? 2. I dont have a new gasket when reinstalling the tower. Is it allowed to use RTV sealant instead?

10-28-2015, 05:52 PM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,534	Re: tricky transmission The only problem you may have is if you have to remove the shift lever. The cap that holds the lever can be screwed off the tower but watch for the pin that aligns the lever. If it is loose in its bore, it can fall into the transmission. The shift forks will pull right up out of the synchronizer and low/reverse gear positions when you pull the shift cover off. You should be able to purchase gasket materials from an auto parts supply shop near to you. You can cut a piece that is just larger than the housing deck flange. Hold the piece over the flange opening then take a small hammer and lightly tap around the edges to get the shape. This with usually allow the extra gasket material to be easily removed from the pattern. Make a hole punch from a small piece of tubing to cut the bolt holes out. Tap out the inside of the deck flange and remove that to form a decent gasket. You can use RTV but it might make the shift forks fit tighter in their grooves than they should. They were designed to have a bit more thickness between the housing and the case than the RTV might provide.