Which head gasket??

[P.S.]

Which head gasket type will last the longest? The copper type or the new composite type with the silicone around the coolant ports?

I already searched the forum and did not come up with a conclusive answer.

[chopo]

well the purist will say the copper... but i have used both . i luv the new style gaskets. no seepage nice seal. sometimes modern has its advantages, like with this. most here will disagree

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi P. S.,

Just one (1) humble experience:

Have a composite silicone head gasket installed with a Model A Police high compression marked "B" for seven (7)years with absolutely no problems.

Installed with regular head bolts in lieu of Grade 8, all torqued twice to only 55 ft.-lbs. -- torqued first cold, next immediately after at engine at operating temperature.

Tried re-torqueing after (6) years; however, silicone head gasket did not compress any further; hence, torque remained at 55 ft.-lbs. with no leaks for seven (7) years, & no preparing & re-painting of cast iron perimeter is necessary -- perimeter of head & block looks like it was painted Ford Green yesterday with no signs of rust & no white stuff.

All the copper ones I installed over the past 54 years, even with "Permatex No. 2" leaked on perimeters & made the perimeter of the head joint both rust & have white residue.

Some like Colgate, some like Crest, some don't even brush their teeth ...... some have false teeth, & some just gum it -- each to his own.

Even remember old timers brushing their teeth with table salt, sold loose at (3) cents a pound, because they could not afford tooth paste with a $50.00 a month Old Age Pension.

Just one (1) shared experience ......... doing what "you" want is most important.

[Ross/Kzoo]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Some like Colgate, some like Crest, some don't even brush their teeth ...... some have false teeth, & some just gum it -- each to his own.

You only brush the ones that you want to keep.

[scrapiron]

Originally Posted by ross/kzoo

you only brush the ones that you want to keep.

saves time , eh,,,,

[P.S.]

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Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

doing what "you" want is most important.

Well, since I don't know which one will last the longest, and that is what I want, it was decided to find out from the pros here, like you. Thank you VERY much for the info, and thanks to chopo as well.

This is one of those areas where I am not going to put "points" over long life since this car gets used very frequently. It has a copper head gasket on it now, and I keep getting coolant in the oil, despite 4 re-torque sessions. The last time, I decided the babbit is too far gone and it is now time for a rebuild. Going with inserts too. I don't want to fiddle with the head gasket anymore, that's just ridiculous! Will take your advice.

[MikeK]

After seeing several blown silicone gaskets and changing more than my share of copper sandwich types I'm inclined to go with this third alternative:

BestGasket co. #509G steel ringed 'GraphTite' gasket. It is a Kevlar reinforced graphite facing material mechanically bonded to both sides of a perforated steel core. It cannot leak internally and has steel fire rings. Use any brand copper spray sealer. Draw your own conclusions.

[Ron/IA]

Mike - In your opinion, do you think this type of head gasket requires a "flatter" block and head (hope that makes sense).

[H. L. Chauvin]

P. S.

Just in case you may see some "vintage" steel ring head gaskets at a swap meet, or on E-bay, in the 1950's J. C. Whitney & NAPA used to have "A" & "B" gaskets with "steel" inner rings.

Also, many "vintage" tractor head gaskets during this era also had steel inner rings.

It was very common back then to experience that it took about (3) years for the thin steel inner ring to rust through whereby these steel ring head gaskets would get blown between No. 2 & No. 3 cylinder.

Steel exhaust gaskets did not last (3) years in humid climates.

Per opinions in reply No, 3 above, just another additional vintage experience if one wants to evaluate same.

And, as far as choices, almost forgot that years ago, Arm & Hammer Baking Soda used to also advertise that one could use their product to brush one's teeth.

Also, during WWII if one wanted to buy a tube of tooth paste, one had to bring an old empty tube for exchange purposes -- possible lead poisoning appeared to be popular back then among tooth paste companies.

Teeth & head gaskets ?????????? At least most may agree they want both to last long.

[Smurkey]

I've been very happy with the silicone one I installed two years ago. Held torque/no leaks.

Steve

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

On stock Model A's, regardless of what style of gasket, I think most headgasket failures are caused by:
1-"Non-flat" head or deck.
2-"Dirty" installation.
3-Improper inital, & follow up torqueings.
4-Loosening that "infamous" cable clamp.
5-Poor/clogged up cooling systems that overheat & warp heads & literally "cook" a section of the gasket, until it "blows"!
Model A's are NOTORIOUS for depositing rust flakes in the top of the radiator tubes, & should be backflushed a minimum of once a year. Also, drop a large headed nail in your overflow tube, to minimize coolant loss. A low water level, FULL of AIR bubbles, will do a pi** poor job of dissapating heat. Modern cars use various types of overflow/expansion tanks, to keep the radiators TOTALLY full, to eliminate air bubbles.
I will be using a 2 quart overflow bottle on Vermin, mounted inside the L/H radiator shell, hooked with a short hose to the bottom of the overflow tube. Later, I may substitute an earlier Volvo tank, that uses a 5# pressure cap, & instantly have a PRESSURIZED SYSTEM. Bill W.
(Attaching a pic of the Volvo tank, with a 5# pressure cap)

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Ron/IA

Mike - In your opinion, do you think this type of head gasket requires a "flatter" block and head (hope that makes sense).

ANY headgasket requires a clean, true, flat, head & block!
I've known guys that "THOUGHT" torqueing a head would "straighten" out its "ARCH"!!! Bill W.
(Chief said lots of folks thought that Henry's "THICK" head gasket would compensate for some warpage!!! WRONG!!!)

[glenn in camino]

I always use the copper type with lots of copper coat and a 2" piece of copper house wire between 1&2 and 3&4. They last until I have to remove the head for some other reason. I've never tried to reuse a head gasket, but it would probably work ok. What do you think? ????

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by glenn in camino

I always use the copper type with lots of copper coat and a 2" piece of copper house wire between 1&2 and 3&4. They last until I have to remove the head for some other reason. I've never tried to reuse a head gasket, but it would probably work ok. What do you think? ????

Blowout between siamese cylinders has always been a problem. Your use of a 'firewire' across the junctions only addresses half the problem. You are increasing the gasket crush pressure at those points temporarily until your wires embed themselves into the softer core material.

The surface finish of both the block and head provide a 'tooth' or mechanical lock to resist the inevitable sideways movement of the gasket. Henry's machined surfaces were coarser in finish (RMS) than almost all of the new heads, resurfaced heads, and resurfaced blocks. This resulted in adequate gasket retention in a stock A.

In racing, the gasket between siamese cylinders was traditionally assisted in mechanical lock by scribing grooves across the narrow areas. By laying thin wire, maybe 24ga, (not house wire!) into a groove filed half the wire diameter deep, you would be mechanically locked to the block and 'print' a corresponding lock into the gasket. Without that lock groove the benefit of the wire is compromised.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by glenn in camino

I always use the copper type with lots of copper coat and a 2" piece of copper house wire between 1&2 and 3&4. They last until I have to remove the head for some other reason. I've never tried to reuse a head gasket, but it would probably work ok. ___What do you think__? ????

Dog here, GLENN, wud you re-use a condum???
Buster T.()!!!

[H. L. Chauvin]

Per reply #15:

Re-using a head gasket was common years ago & determined mainly by one's very limited financial status at any age -- e.g., Drive? or Eat?

Re-using the other item Bill's dog mentioned? .......... May be similar in some cases, i. e, Drive? or Eat?; but maybe for Drive, second rounds & re-use could depend on one's age -- not anywhere near there yet; but just hear rumors about this most sensitive secretive subject when one begins to get old !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[P.S.]

So, Mike... What is the scoop on those kevlar sandwiching steel gaskets? Will they rust out eventually, or is the metal an alloy that will resist rusting? Their website does not address this.

[TDO]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

On stock Model A's, regardless of what style of gasket, I think most headgasket failures are caused by:
1-"Non-flat" head or deck.
2-"Dirty" installation.
3-Improper inital, & follow up torqueings.
4-Loosening that "infamous" cable clamp.
5-Poor/clogged up cooling systems that overheat & warp heads & literally "cook" a section of the gasket, until it "blows"!
Model A's are NOTORIOUS for depositing rust flakes in the top of the radiator tubes, & should be backflushed a minimum of once a year. Also, drop a large headed nail in your overflow tube, to minimize coolant loss. A low water level, FULL of AIR bubbles, will do a pi** poor job of dissapating heat. Modern cars use various types of overflow/expansion tanks, to keep the radiators TOTALLY full, to eliminate air bubbles.
I will be using a 2 quart overflow bottle on Vermin, mounted inside the L/H radiator shell, hooked with a short hose to the bottom of the overflow tube. Later, I may substitute an earlier Volvo tank, that uses a 5# pressure cap, & instantly have a PRESSURIZED SYSTEM. Bill W.
(Attaching a pic of the Volvo tank, with a 5# pressure cap)

What year VOLVO used this tank, and where do you buy it.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

TDO,
I know it was still used on the 1970-140 series. The 160 series also used a fatter version. Still trying to find a supplier, I haven't tried www.skandix.com yet. Bill W.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by P.S.

So, Mike... What is the scoop on those kevlar sandwiching steel gaskets? Will they rust out eventually, or is the metal an alloy that will resist rusting? Their website does not address this.

Hey P.S.,
Check out BEST head gasket(google). I just bought one, i.e.- 573G (graftite)