Is Zink necessary ?

[deuce lover]

I heard that if you are using detergent oil (20-50)in these early flatheads that a Zinc additive is necessary or you risk flattening the cam.True?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

I heard that if you are using detergent oil (20-50)in these early flatheads that a Zink additive is necessary or you risk flattening the cam.True?

First off. it is ZINC not zink...
Zinc will prolong the life of the engine but it will run without it.

[Mick/mo]

Deuce Lover. Go stand in a corner ,and write zinc 5000 times.

[BIG MIKE]

Funny I was told the same thing in using ZINC this past Friday Nite, Imaa going to use it on my next oil change. I also was told to use an Lead additive if I use Super unleaded gas. BIG MIKE

[JT FORD]

Use MMO in the gas and forget everything else!

[BIG MIKE]

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Check this out I used that super gas in my flatty in my TANK engine ran Great until it started backfiring with flame bursts is this normal?

[CWPASADENA]

If you are running a stock cam and valve springs in your flat head Ford, then ZDDP additive is probably not necessary.

Engine oils (Motor Oils) were re-formulater in about 1949 when the new OHV engines (Cadillac and Olds) had problems with scuffing cam lobes. These engines were designed with a more radical cam profile and also had heaver valve springs to compensate for the added weight of the rocker arm and push rod. This increased the load on the lifters which caused the older oils to break down and the cam lobes would wear or scuff. The "new" oil formulation had anti scuffing agents to prevent the cam lobes from scuffing. ZDDP is an additive which is an anti scuffing agent.

The Flat Head Ford V-8 had a light weight valve train with light valve springs, and also a very consertive cam profile which all resulted in a lifter that was fairly lightly loaded. Cam ware or scuffing was not normally a problem with these engines.

You should not have a problem using an oil that does not have a lot of ZDDP in it in a stock Flat Head BUT to be on the safe side, you may want to add a little to each oil change. It is cheap insurance.

If you are using an aftermarket cam with heaver then stock springs, I would definately want to use ZDDP in the oil.

This is my opinion,

Chris

[40 Deluxe]

And, what was the recommended break-in oil in flathead days (and well beyond)? That's right, 10W NON-detergent oil! So there was that new or reground cam starting it's life with plain oil, no additives. Many a flathead, once a few years old, got fed a steady diet of non-detergent or even re-refined oil and the cams and lifters lived on.

[Bassman/NZ]

CWPasadena nailed it

There is also some evidence that adding ZDDP additive to your oil can be detrimental. As most oils still have a certain quantity of ZDDP in them, how do you know exactly how much to add? It has been found that the phosphorus content can displace the oil on the lobe if it is present in too great a quantity. Displaced oil = kaput lobes. If the bottle of ZDDP came with a list of oils saying to use this much for brand X, this much for brand Y, etc, there would be no problem.
The bottom line is, if you're still running the stock Henry cam and stock or US made lifters, just use your normal oil. If you're using an aftermarket cam and lifters (which are quite likely made in china and machined in the US), you should use an oil with the correct ZDDP level ALREADY MIXED IN BY THE MANUFACTURER. In other words use Valvoline VR1, Kendall 20-50, Brad Penn or similar. That way you are getting the correct ZDDP levels.

[rotorwrench]

Since oils have been changing to meet EPA and cataclysmic perverter specs, there has become a niche marcket for earlier spec oils & lubricants. Lubriplate is one of the best known manufacturer names that is capitalizing on this. I guess the problem is finding a local distributor too. I was trying to remember how long it has been since I saw a can of Texaco 20W20 Havoline oil that we used to use in our old flatheads motors on the farm. It's been a very long time. Hell I can't remember when thsy stopped using cans.

Kerby

[38 coupe]

The zinc additive was first added to motor oils in 1957 to combat flat cam problems with the new high performance OHV motors availible starting in the mid 50s (355 horse Chrysler 300 motor, Duntov cammed ch**ys, etc). Even a hot cammed flathead has nowhere near the strength valve springs those motors have. You don't need to add zinc.

[paul2748]

Any oil over 40 weight has the same amount of ZDDP (zinc and other additives) that it always had, regardless of the SM classification. Therefore, any 40, 10-40, 20-50, 15-40 (diesel) more than enough for a flathead, YBlock and other engines. Never use an oil marked "For gasoline engines only" as it does not have enough ZDDP and is for the later engines.

The only time I would use a ZDDP additive would be break in of a new engine. GM's EOS is perfect for this.

Don't believe any one who says the newer diesel oil has no ZDDP - they don't know what they are talking about.

[Bassman/NZ]

All oil still has ZDDP content, it's the level (ppm) that has been reduced. Most off the shelf oils seem to have around 500-600ppm now.

[paul2748]

Originally Posted by Bassman/NZ

All oil still has ZDDP content, it's the level (ppm) that has been reduced. Most off the shelf oils seem to have around 500-600ppm now.

I think you will find that they have lot more than you say. Castrol 20/50 for instance, has around 1300-1400 ppm per the last lab tests I have seen.. Rotella T diesel has around 1200. I didn't check on any others, but probably around the same.

[Mr.34]

I have been using zinc additive since I first started reading about the oil formulation changes a few years back. ZDDP is what I was using when I was able to get it cheap directly from the manufacturere. I use it in all my cars 1990 and older as depending on mfg. of vehicle, it was in that time frame that they introduced roller cams as standard equipment. Contrary to other posts, I believe in using zinc additive in my 34 and 40's as well. If you are a fan of full synthetic, I love Amzoil with zinc as it is very high quality and most mechanics have it as their preference. Only catch is that it is very pricey, so make friends with a master distributor. Now I buy several cases at a time and use on most of the cars except newer daily drivers. Like most topics, you can argure this one all day long but most agree that zinc added is good and no downside that I have read about.

[Reds]

I use nothing but Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs. Both make oil specifically for motors with flat tappet cams. No mixing, no guessing. You can get them at any speed shop. All of the "new" oils have reduced levels of zinc in them. I think even the diesel oil has recently been changed.

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by paul2748

I think you will find that they have lot more than you say. Castrol 20/50 for instance, has around 1300-1400 ppm per the last lab tests I have seen.. Rotella T diesel has around 1200. I didn't check on any others, but probably around the same.

What date are the tests you have seen? I no longer have the link, but the Castrol 20-50w tests I read were half that figure.

[Byron Warwick]

The zinc in the additive ZDDP is an antiwear additive. It is/has been removed from most modern oils as it contaminates the catalytic converters. I had direct experience in one of my engines, a 1954, that had 2 lobes of the camshaft almost rounded off! That was enough for me. I've now switched to Valvoline racing oils. VRO. Byron.

[deuce lover]

Thanks for all the feedback.Besides learning how to spell Zinc I got a great education on this additive.I didn't want to ruin my new engine.59AB .30 over,Merc crank(std-std)Potvin Cam w/395 total lift and 280 duration -Zephyr springs and NOS Johnson adjustables.I used vintage Sharp block letter heads and a vintage Sharp intake.Just put in the Valvoline racing oil.The orig generator now houses an alternator that puts out 40 amps.That conversion is done by EJ Whitney & Co. in Fullerton,CA.See you on the road.

[GreenMonster48]

Deuce Lover....your 36 is everything a 36 should be.