The Ford Barn

M2M · 08-08-2014, 07:39 AM

Cost of parts and restoration services rise year by year (look at the price of a SCAT crank now compared to 3 years ago), but the value of cars seems static. In the USA well restored non-brass Ts can be had for < $12K. I've seen a few real nice Model A Coupes and Pick-ups for < $15K. In Australia prices are a bit higher as the supply/demand ratio is perhaps more even and the fact that it costs more to restore a car and buy parts Down Under.

Production of some real nice products such as the Model A Burlington Crankshaft and Bill Stipe's Model A shocks have ceased. Chaffin's business is up for sale...would be a big loss to the T hobby to lose Rajo and Ruxstell kits.

How have we got here and in which direction are we going? Could there be a surge of interest in Model T and Model A cars like the one in Muscle Cars? Are the clubs doing enough to promote themselves and the hobby? Is it their role to do so?

What are your thoughts?

Franchise_24 · 08-08-2014, 07:41 AM

We need more younger people to get involved. I know in our club, I'm 35 and my wife is 33 and we are the youngest, with the next closes ages in their 50's.

rocket1 · 08-08-2014, 07:47 AM

all I know is that some older cars are worth a lot more than others,I should have bought a 1957 Chevy instead of my !957 Studebaker I don't think the young people today are interested in Model A's,never see a younger owner at any meets,we are going the way of the Model T,not many people want one.

Jim/GA · 08-08-2014, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

We need more younger people to get involved. I know in our club, I'm 35 and my wife is 33 and we are the youngest, with the next closes ages in their 50's.

Everyone agrees with you.

I have heard this same basic statement for the past 10 years or so.

As someone in the "mid-30s demographic group", what 2 or 3 things would you recommend be done at the local level (by local clubs) and at the national level (by MTFCA, MARC, MAFCA, etc) to attract people like you and your wife to the hobby?

What could the local or national clubs do that they are not doing now?

What could they do slightly differently to make the hobby more attractive to people your age?

Do you feel people your age are aware of the Model T and Model A vehicles? Or is more publicity about them needed?

Do they know that a Model A can be quite reliable and actually drive at a decent speed?

As antique cars go, Model Ts and As are actually still quite affordable (compared to other marques, like Packard, Cadillac, etc.).

bart78 · 08-08-2014, 08:07 AM

I am 35 and like the old cars a bunch. But I am the only one in my area around my age. There is a guy that is in his 50's. But no one likes him. He spends more time telling people what's wrong with their cars. There are a couple older guys up in their 80's. But that's it. Young people around here were brought up on horses and cows not cars. I think the cost of the hobby is going to keep most of them out.

Chris in CT · 08-08-2014, 08:07 AM

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Hi M2M, You have some very interesting thoughts here, but let me ask you about your handle. On this side of the Pacific Ocean, M2M means "machine to machine" and refers to an emerging technology in which computers speak to other machines (production machines, for instance) and the prod. machines speak back to them in a way that process can be altered while the machines are running. It is an emerging technology. It is also a disruptive technology.

Model A Fords are an anachronistic technology. So are pianos and many other complicated mechanical devices that we all have fond memories of from our families and from our childhoods. Strictly speaking, they have very little place in our modern culture. There are numerous difficulties in trying to preserve their presence in our lives, and one of these is the fact that we will spend a great deal more money than they are objectively worth in attempting both to preserve and utilize them.

Why do we do it? Memory! Reaching back to a time when life (as we knew it) was stable, predictable, and secure. My first car was a '30 Ford coupe that I courted my wife of 50 years in. Do I want to go back to that place? You bet - in my thoughts at least.

And with respect to the Ladies involved in the hobby, it is also a very solid "male" world to live in, this hobby. With other aspects of our culture becoming "gender neutral", it is a place where we have always been able to gender-identify, but this goes back to memory, doesn't it? We could write a book about this, but Fordbarn is not the place for it... Continue on your fabulous road-trip!

Chris

bart78 · 08-08-2014, 08:14 AM

I think what keeps a lot of younger people from restoring model A's. Is the attitude of a lot of the guys I have met. There are allways the one or two guys that know everything. And want to tell you all that is wrong even though you have not asked them. When you are at a local small car show. An you are telling another guy his tail lights are wrong. Or his wheel color is wrong. People don't want to hear that. I have known a lot of model a guys to be worse than Corvette guys.

denis4x4 · 08-08-2014, 08:18 AM

The hobby will never go away. Family members will continue to carry the torch, all be it to a lesser degree. The cultural change in youth will have more to do with the future than the price of cars and parts. The simplicity of an A is not all that appealing to a young person who would rather take a laptop and make a Honda go faster with a few strokes on the keyboard. The boards of the national clubs have done a piss poor job of promoting the hobby beyond the current membership to the general populace. The shear numbers of running A's will keep prices in line.

C26Pinelake · 08-08-2014, 08:41 AM

It used to be that Model A's were plentiful at car shows. I was at a show on the weekend that attracted 450 cars. There were 2 Model A's ! My Cabriolet and an old Tudor that had been hot rodded. There were only 8 cars pre 1950. My car attracted the 60 and above crowd predomininately. The 75 and above group loved it ! In my opinion we are headed in a downward trend which means our cars are not in demand and that means the price is also declining. Model A's today better be bought for enjoyment because they are not a good financial investment. JMHO !
Wayne

BlueSunoco · 08-08-2014, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bart78

I think what keeps a lot of younger people from restoring model A's. Is the attitude of a lot of the guys I have met. There are allways the one or two guys that know everything. And want to tell you all that is wrong even though you have not asked them. When you are at a local small car show. An you are telling another guy his tail lights are wrong. Or his wheel color is wrong. People don't want to hear that. I have known a lot of model a guys to be worse than Corvette guys.

I saw this not long ago. I was at a parade, looking at the antique cars lining up. One guy had a VERY nice '30 Tudor that he had just finished. An 80 year old guy that I know walked over to the car and started trying to pick it apart. He told the Tudor owner finally 'You put the windshield swing arms on backwards(?)' The guy with the Tudor calmly said 'Well, I guess in doing the entire car there was going to be SOMETHING I may have done wrong' and turned and walked away.

And to make it worse, the 80 year old had a Coupe there that looked like it had been restored by the St. Lucia Children's School for the Blind it was nasty. And HE was the one who 'restored' it

In answer to the original thread, yes you can get upside down REAL fast in about any old car restoration. If you hire it all out. I guess I look at it like, pay what you can afford for the best you can have and don't look back. Just get out there and enjoy the hobby.

If you are trying to gauge Model A's as investment property then you had best go elsewhere. Don't play here

fordf1trucknut · 08-08-2014, 09:01 AM

I am 33 and now have a running driving 30 coupe and 23 touring car. Plus another a project and a bunch of other 50s cars.

I really am a strange....not too many others my age in the area into older cars enough to spend the money and time to run them.

Model A Man · 08-08-2014, 09:02 AM

In my opinion the cost is what is keeping youngsters from owning model A's. License fees cost of insurance. The cost of getting a motor rebuilt only to have it last a short time ( upward of $4,000.00) when you can buy a complete 327 motor for $1,500.00 that will last for years. The cost of rebuilding the brake system is a thousand plus. when I rebuilt the brakes on my dodge truck, including four new rotors was less than $400.00. Plus there are not many jobs available for the young crowd that will afford them the luxury of owning a model a or t . If better parts and more reliable rebuilds were available I know I would own many more model a's and I would love to own a model t. (I am really hoping that Tod will have at least have solved some of the issues i mentioned by having new affordable model a motors available soon)

newshirt · 08-08-2014, 09:03 AM

Some hobbies experience a "wave" just like at the football stadium, where you first see a few early-adopters, then a huge swell of mainstreamers, and then finally a smaller number of late-adopters after the swell has passed. You see this in technology, fads, hobbies, politics, and a lot of other places. People "jump on the bandwagon" and ride while it's still cool. Then they all pile off.

I feel like a late-adopter.

H. L. Chauvin · 08-08-2014, 09:04 AM

Hi M2M,

Maybe one of the best gauges for monitoring the future of this hobby is to monitor organization membership numbers, (numbers of interested "people" interested), at the local level & national level.

It appears that some of the most contributing factors to this hobby's continuance are:

1. The national & local Model T & A Clubs providing technical restoration information, beautiful pictures of restored vehicles & portraying countryside tours with same, accompanied by before & after restoration photos; and,

2. Internet forums where the newly uninformed restorers can acquire friendly restoration technical information & assistance. (This includes when a new person asks what kind of oil to use, be nice, he is new).

3. Parts vendors striving to continually provide more "quality" restoration parts & sheet metal, engine & drive train rebuilding etc.

There are also many guys who come to these Forums with interest to read about Model As, & may dream of one day owning a Model A; but never post questions or comments. No doubt some are waiting for retirement when they will have more free "time" to attempt a restoration.

In the end, if we compare this hobby to for example, the Chambers of Commerce, the Lions Club, Daughters of the Revolution, any ancient Judeo-Christian Faith from centuries ago, it becomes obvious that absolutely no organization involving "people" ever survived without an organized, ongoing functional "membership drive", which continues to replenish the organization with new members as former members pass on.

What is the future of this hobby? Just look in the mirror.

Fred · 08-08-2014, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSunoco

I saw this not long ago. I was at a parade, looking at the antique cars lining up. One guy had a VERY nice '30 Tudor that he had just finished. An 80 year old guy that I know walked over to the car and started trying to pick it apart. He told the Tudor owner finally 'You put the windshield swing arms on backwards(?)' The guy with the Tudor calmly said 'Well, I guess in doing the entire car there was going to be SOMETHING I may have done wrong' and turned and walked away.

And to make it worse, the 80 year old had a Coupe there that looked like it had been restored by the St. Lucia Children's School for the Blind it was nasty. And HE was the one who 'restored' it

In answer to the original thread, yes you can get upside down REAL fast in about any old car restoration. If you hire it all out. I guess I look at it like, pay what you can afford for the best you can have and don't look back. Just get out there and enjoy the hobby.

If you are trying to gauge Model A's as investment property then you had best go elsewhere. Don't play here

And on the other hand, I have been to quite a few local shows with my 1928 & 29 Coupe & roadster, Both with Master Restoration Awards on the Radiator shell.. When the awards are spotted, I am often ask by Younger guys to come and look at there cars & tell them what I may see wrong. Many times I end up selling them the right parts & or working on the car..

sam03 · 08-08-2014, 09:08 AM

I think the hobby requires patients and money and most young people dont have it. With out a father or grandfather that has the knowledge and the patients/money to help a young person build and maintain an old car its nearly impossible. I know what you mean when someone picks your project apart its not very motivating. We just have to learn not to say it out loud when we dont agree with the way someone is restoring "their" project. I have been to plenty of shows and seen really nice restored Ford and when i look under the hood and see a chevy it hurts. But its not my car so i just keep walking. When i was talking to the guy i bought my new flathead from this weekend i asked him what he was planning on putting it in and he laugh and said you are not going to like my answer. Which caught me off guard. I just laughed and what? He said well i was planning on buying a 53 gmc truck, he said i always though the flatheads where cool but likes gmc truck better. I said well a Ford in a gmc is better than gmc in a Ford. So you never know the reason behind what someone does with the hotrod. I dont think the hobby will go away but i think lots of the knowledge is not being passed along. We need more old guys writing books and on forums so us young guys can learn how its done.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 08-08-2014, 09:11 AM

Folks need to remember that a Model-A has never been a high-value automobile. That by it's very nature is why most of y'all own one! Ironically, I have been involved in this hobby all of my 50+ years and I can remember this same conversation being held at club meetings back in the 60's. Guess what, each subsequent decade saw Model-A prices higher than the previous decade. I will also tell you that from my professional perspective, there is always a buyer for someone's Model-A. The issue that I have witnessed is the Seller often places a higher value due to their bias that creates the "difficult to sell" scenario. It goes without saying that the market (true Buyers) set the true value. Oh and BTW, exactly why does someone have the mindset that ownership of anything should be a financial investment? The majority of 'things' people own are NOT a financial investment yet they purchase them anyway.

I pretty much agree with Denis' thoughts above. As far as Clubs are concerned, I have sat on the board of a national antique car club, and I can speak from my experience that a club must be operated just like a business (---which most are not!!), ...not just with handling the money but with Missions, Advertising/Marketing, Promotions, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, having something of value to offer their customer. The reason club membership is in decline is the perceived value from members & hobbyists. For most clubs, their magazine is their only true reason why the majority (90%+\- ??) of their members join/renew. Therefore it is easy for a (prospective) member to ask what am I getting for my hard earned $$ that I cannot receive elsewhere?? With the age of electronics & internet, finding information is much faster & easier than via a club magazine. As I sit here in a Dr.s office awaiting my turn, it is painfully clear which is the better option at the moment for learning about Model-As.

Gunmetal blue2 · 08-08-2014, 09:17 AM

In the School that I graduated from this year they took away auto shop, machine shop, wood working, electrical and we are known for being the RV Capital of the world. So how are the kids suppost to learn to do any thing if they don't get tot. I am 58 years old. I started working on Model A's when I was 15 years old. I didn't have any body to help me back then.

JohnLaVoy · 08-08-2014, 09:26 AM

I concur with Brent. We need to do a better job of marketing the hobby. I also feel that the focus on the "youth", while nice, isn't the demographic that is looking for a hobby. The late 40 to early 50 group, kids are grown a little extra money and looking for a hobby. But we don't market to them. Our events are closed to members only. The competition for this group is the street rod/hot rod hobby. We should look at how they approach the general public and put on their meets to see where we need to go to compete for this segment of the people looking to purchase a car and get into a hobby.

V4F · 08-08-2014, 09:30 AM

im afraid the hobby will die soon do to lack of interest in the old cars that are not hot rods . their cost will take the down soon also . it seems most kids like the turn the key & go generic cars. no personality . not many younger people are interested in their parents / gparents cars . no pass me downs . just estate sales as we die............. JMHO

bart78 · 08-08-2014, 09:46 AM

I think the younger kids could be gotten into the hobby. I know a lot of Hot Rod clubs will have open house night. One of the main things hold back most younger people. Besides the cost of the car or project. Is they have no place to work on them. People don't have shops in the subdivisions. They have two car garage. That mom or dads car is in. Or it's full of crap. People can't leave it up to just family to carry on with their cars. I'm the only one that wanted my grandfathers cars. My dad four uncles an one aunt did not want them. Or any of their kids.

slackcat · 08-08-2014, 10:09 AM

I'm 51 and my wife is 50. I always loved classic cars as does my wife and now our son too. Kids today have too many other distractions. Sports is now year round, the internet, i-phones, i-pads,............ cars are old tech and now disposible. We used to cruise main after school and weekends, socialize, not anymore. Times sure have changed.

A dwindling hobby.

ronn · 08-08-2014, 10:17 AM

All very well said............

the antique car hobby is going the way of the churches, for many of the same reasons.

Heck, McDonalds can't compete anymore with the likes of Panera, Chipotle or Chick Filet either!

A lot of competition out there in this day and age.

BlueSunoco · 08-08-2014, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newshirt

Some hobbies experience a "wave" just like at the football stadium, where you first see a few early-adopters, then a huge swell of mainstreamers, and then finally a smaller number of late-adopters after the swell has passed. You see this in technology, fads, hobbies, politics, and a lot of other places. People "jump on the bandwagon" and ride while it's still cool. Then they all pile off.

I feel like a late-adopter.

Exactly Newshirt. Example: Look at NASCAR, and what's happening there. 12 or so years ago it was the 'cool' thing to be involved with. Today, attendance numbers are heading south big time. Teams are trying to merge. Who in the heck wants to drop $700 to go to one race with a couple of kids in tow,NOT a family oriented event. Naw, most folks are finding better things to do with their money and time.

Also, in the early 70's when I was in high school, I was the only guy interested in Model A's. My buddies thought I was nuts. So things really haven't changed all that much today

NCDave · 08-08-2014, 10:28 AM

I'm generally an optimist, but I will agree with those who say that our cars are really not great "investments" for later resale or dollar worth; what they are is a current outlet for our enjoyment and appreciation of mechanical things and classic machines. I grew up in the fifties and sixties in a small town in a rural area. There were still several old "tin-shop" mechanics around here, and a couple owned and drove Model A's, and had the skills and experience to work on them. I observed them, and they helped foster my interest but such old-school mechanics are fading away rapidly. I was also an avid reader of hot rod magazines back in that day.

However, today is a whole different era in so many ways; younger people don't seem to be very interested in my Model A, even if some have the means to own them and the facilities to store and maintain them----that, as was mentioned above, is also a factor----a place to just work on an old car or local shops that can do the work for them.

I won't get into politics here, but there is a sad lack of appreciation of the scope of US history in our current US schools, beyond emphasis on the civil rights struggles of past decades. This lack of emphasis has the consequence of clueless young people when it comes to the contributions of past generations and the way the country was built and the machines that helped build it. As an example, a few years ago, I carried some neighbor's children with me to a local history event at the site of a former Confederate fort; there was cannon-firing and some living history demonstrations. The 13 year old asked me "who won the war?". Go ask a teenager who fought on which side in WWII.

I also did some substitute school teaching years back, and I was saddened by the pure lack of quality in the education that I saw in my limited exposure to the school situation then.

Other interest of mine is old tractors (John Deere). There is a decent interest in the hobby of restoring old tractors, but it appears limited to rural farm people for the most part who work with machines on a daily basis, and a lot of those tractors are inherited from family.

So will the Model A hobby survive? Yes, but with declining interest, as I see it. I also predict that a number will be bought and converted to hot-rods, as they are more road-worthy in modern traffic situations. Enjoy them while we can, and mentor as we can. Maybe I am "Captain Obvious" here.

BigRix · 08-08-2014, 10:30 AM

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I guess at 49 years old, I just got into the hobby when a friend asked me to work on his 29 Tudor. I dove in head first and am now considering buying one for myself. I am drawn to the simple and robust construction of these cars. I don't see either of my daughters being interested in them but that may change when I take them for a ride.

Now for my thoughts on the future of the hobby. I have nothing to go on other than my own anecdotal evidence, but that has never stopped me from forming an opinion before.

I am also into collecting Colt Double action revolvers and we have had this discussion many times. My argument has always used the car collecting hobby when discussing the ups and downs of the market.

It is my belief that the era of cars or guns that have the most demand are those that we lusted for as teenagers, but can only afford to buy now.

My father's generation grew up driving and lusting after Colt Single Action Army's and Model A's. My father in particular always wanted a '36 Cabriolet. He had plenty of Colt SAA's as he competed in fast draw competitions. Those items were very expensive when he was in his 50's and he could not afford them any more.

My generation lusts for Colt Pythons and Muscle cars. I've sold off all my Pythons and don't know that I will buy anymore unless I stumble onto a deal. Prices are just too high. I would love to own a '67 fastback mustang but don't know when I will find one at the price I would pay.

I think I would prefer to buy a nice Model A for $8,000 to $10,000 and slowly fix anything wrong with it. I doubt I would ever buy one that needs a complete resto. Unless it is a rare model you would be upside down in a hurry. The one thing I have learned with all the hobbies I have had over the years is I have to do the research up front and buy right. I can't afford to buy on emotion and not be able to get my money out of it.

To me, Model A's are a bargain. It would allow me an entry into the hobby and to be the first rung in the ladder. My first Colt Trooper cost me $400 and a worked my way up the ladder to my Last Python that I sold for $6500.

FrankWest · 08-08-2014, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V4F

im afraid the hobby will die soon do to lack of interest in the old cars that are not hot rods . their cost will take the down soon also . it seems most kids like the turn the key & go generic cars. no personality . not many younger people are interested in their parents / gparents cars . no pass me downs . just estate sales as we die............. JMHO

Today's youngsters hate old things, old things are not hip!
I had a student in my community college class that said he would not watch any movie made after 1980! He said the old films have not bearing on his life!

FrankWest · 08-08-2014, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRix

I guess at 49 years old, I just got into the hobby when a friend asked me to work on his 29 Tudor. I dove in head first and am now considering buying one for myself. I am drawn to the simple and robust construction of these cars. I don't see either of my daughters being interested in them but that may change when I take them for a ride.

Now for my thoughts on the future of the hobby. I have nothing to go on other than my own anecdotal evidence, but that has never stopped me from forming an opinion before.

I am also into collecting Colt Double action revolvers and we have had this discussion many times. My argument has always used the car collecting hobby when discussing the ups and downs of the market.

It is my belief that the era of cars or guns that have the most demand are those that we lusted for as teenagers, but can only afford to buy now.

My father's generation grew up driving and lusting after Colt Single Action Army's and Model A's. My father in particular always wanted a '36 Cabriolet. He had plenty of Colt SAA's as he competed in fast draw competitions. Those items were very expensive when he was in his 50's and he could not afford them any more.

My generation lusts for Colt Pythons and Muscle cars. I've sold off all my Pythons and don't know that I will buy anymore unless I stumble onto a deal. Prices are just too high. I would love to own a '67 fastback mustang but don't know when I will find one at the price I would pay.

I think I would prefer to buy a nice Model A for $8,000 to $10,000 and slowly fix anything wrong with it. I doubt I would ever buy one that needs a complete resto. Unless it is a rare model you would be upside down in a hurry. The one thing I have learned with all the hobbies I have had over the years is I have to do the research up front and buy right. I can't afford to buy on emotion and not be able to get my money out of it.

To me, Model A's are a bargain. It would allow me an entry into the hobby and to be the first rung in the ladder. My first Colt Trooper cost me $400 and a worked my way up the ladder to my Last Python that I sold for $6500.

The youngster's today would rather have a cheesy plastic glock than a classic colt.
To them a colt is like a 120 year old cowboy gun.

bikemaniac · 08-08-2014, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1930 coupe

It seems that the younger generation is not interested in any mechanical projects of any kind. They just want to sit on the sofa and play games on there computer and watch TV. There are a few exceptions but the majority seem to be getting away from any mechanical hobbies, and they are loosing there mechanical skills.

+1. This is my exact impression. I am 35 and a mechanical engineer and have a Phd degree in materials science. I bought my model A project out of the blue without ever having driven one and nobody in my family had vintage cars. I work in a department with many mechanical engineers and nobody is into vintage cars except one guy who owns a vintage English roadster. And I can assure you that money is not a problem for the engineers at my age. There is simply no interest. Typical discussion topics during lunch with all the young mechanical engineers in the department:

1. Discuss the latest ski holiday.
2. Discuss home improvement.
3. Discuss a TV program.
4. Discuss a future travel to a large city.
5. Discuss the food.
6. Discuss fitness workout.
7. Discuss smartphones and new apps.
8. Discuss the battle between android and apple. For many engineers that is equivalent to technology.

... but nobody is interested in mechanical stuff.

Lucas

1930artdeco · 08-08-2014, 10:42 AM

I will have to agree with almost everything said here. I would like the National clubs to do at least two things: 1) get over their petty differences and combine to make one club that as the goal of getting new members and the cars out there to be seen. And 2) maybe they could hire a PR firm for advise or and ad campaign.

What I disagree with is the idea that these cars are expensive. Yes it is expensive to build a motor at about 4K. But that same motor if done right will last 20 years or more. Factoring in a motor lasts about 50k if maintained properly and we put about 1k a year on them....Like anything that needs to be worked on, if it is done right it is expensive but it will last and you wont have to rebuild for years. So there is a trade off-expense vs. length of time it operates. Something young people can learn from.

OK, I will get off my soapbox now....

Mike

NCDave · 08-08-2014, 10:59 AM

FrankWest,
I can say if I owned that Python, I could never bring myself to sell it!!! Beautiful!

holdover · 08-08-2014, 11:29 AM

I am 68 and back into Model As after being away for 42 years. I have a ’29 Coupe and a ’29 Pickup both stock not hotrods. I own them for the enjoyment of driving them with my wife and grandbabies, not as an investment. I do all the work myself. My adult son enjoys them but I do not feel he would invest any money in one, I also own a ’65 Mustang fastback 289/271HP 4speed and a ‘67 Mustang 390, 4 speed fastback, those he likes. At a local car show here in June there were 4 stock Model A’s and 2 hotrods, pretty good turnout. There were about 100 cars in the show and a lot of people liked the A’s , especially the kids which is a good thing, plant those seeds early. The bad thing about it though was that the original A owners ranged from late 50s to mid 70s, the hotrod owners in their 30-40s.

P.S. · 08-08-2014, 12:23 PM

Like Lucas, I am also an engineer and own 1 Model A. My wife and I are consistently the youngest couple at almost any Model A gathering. Among my peers, the Model A isn't a consideration for many reasons-

1. Not practical
2. Cannot be your only car (let's be serious here, these days- it can't).
3. Cannot be neglected and still work flawlessly.
4. Doesn't have bluetooth.
5. Isn't a trendy lame hybrid
etc.

The Model A isn't a "hobby" to wife and I, it is a car. We just both happen to love the era itself in automobile design. Though we have taken a few long trips in the Model A, mostly we just use it for a trip out to dinner or to the movies. It probably makes more trips to the post office in town than anything else.

Neither of us care about what other people think of us or our stuff. However, that cannot be said for the majority of people in our age group. Looks and impressions seem to be everything to most people our age. A Model A really doesn't fit that lifestyle.

As for people our age or even younger than us, they have debt and need to be more frugal (we are debt free). Since classic car insurance dictates that your classic cannot be your only car, if you can barely afford 1 car, how can you afford more? Let's face it, for young people, a second car used strictly for recreation is a luxury item.

Sure, there are exceptions, and some of those exceptional young people are here on this forum. However, thinking back 10 years ago when wife and I were just finishing up building our first home, every penny and every minute of our spare time was consumed on building our lives and our family. We weren't even thinking about kids yet, but knew it could happen someday. A Model A would have been the first thing to go when we needed an extra few bucks.

Mike- You only put 1K miles on that girl a year? Man, we do that in like 3 months. Park the motorbike and drive the A, man!

As for the OP's questions-

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2M

How have we got here and in which direction are we going?

We got here because the automobile isn't a cultural American icon anymore. There are teens and 20-somethings that have no interest in owning a car these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2M

Could there be a surge of interest in Model T and Model A cars like the one in Muscle Cars?

Interesting question! I do see some late teens and early 20-somethings riding around in late 60's and 70's muscle cars now and then. The attraction seems to be that parts are readily available, they are fairly reliable as an only car, and they will easily do highway speeds for extended periods (for visiting friends, schools, whatever). These cars can be rodded easier than restored and will provide go-anywhere, anytime, any condition transportation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2M

Are the clubs doing enough to promote themselves and the hobby? Is it their role to do so?

My opinion follows:

No, not even close. The national clubs seem to be hyper-focused on the very things that made them great 30 years ago. Having a "youth program" that doesn't do anything does not attract youth. Unfortunately, to reach the "me generation", you have to go way overboard and spoon feed them to get interest. The national clubs, and mostly their aging members, don't want to do that. They have this "you have to earn it" attitude. Well, the entitled generation today is what it is, and as much as the old farts hate it, that's reality.

You can't spank a kid in the store without a police response these days. Times HAVE changed. The older generation wants to keep the national clubs the same way they were 30 years ago. Well, OK, I will give you this- They did start websites. These days, EVERYBODY has a website. So what? Does MARC of MAFCA have a strong social media presence?

I'm not sure it is their role to do so, I think it is up to each person that considers owning a Model A automobile to be a hobby. I have to tell you, in my limited experience, about 30% of the Model A owners I have met are absolutely fantastic, helpful, supportive people. The other 70% are not. The 30% minority cannot make it happen by themselves. There's your answer.

Barber31 · 08-08-2014, 12:52 PM

Being new to the model A scene I can't speak for the first question but I can for the second. I feel the model A is and has been having a surge of interest, just not in the fashion most here would like to see. More of ratrod and hotrod style which most here and I'm sure in the big clubs really don't care for. Just yesterday I was at Wally World and had about 4 magazines that were full of model A cars but once again not in its traditional form. Being that I do love both restored and custom A's I feel as long as someone is saving them in any fashion, it's a good thing.

Lona · 08-08-2014, 01:46 PM

There will be no future for our hobby if the younger generations don't have an interest in our cars. Each generation tends to be interested in the cars they grew up with or the cars of their parents generation because they are familiar with them. With prices of our cars slowly dropping and an abundance of parts, this presents an opportunity for the younger generations to get into a less expensive end of the car hobby. However, we need to find ways to get them interested as others have said.

At the car shows we attend, almost all exhibitors have "don't touch" signs on their cars. We have no signs on ours and, in fact, encourage everyone, especially kids, to not only touch but to sit in them with parental supervision. Next show we will have a sign that says "please feel free to touch". It's one way we can get kids interested in our cars but more important, gives us an opportunity to chat with the parents who are indeed at the age where they might just catch the vintage car bug from us.

Glen

Lona · 08-08-2014, 01:46 PM

There will be no future for our hobby if the younger generations don't have an interest in our cars. Each generation tends to be interested in the cars they grew up with or the cars of their parents generation because they are familiar with them. With prices of our cars slowly dropping and an abundance of parts, this presents an opportunity for the younger generations to get into a less expensive end of the car hobby. However, we need to find ways to get them interested as others have said.

At the car shows we attend, almost all exhibitors have "don't touch" signs on their cars. We have no signs on ours and, in fact, encourage everyone, especially kids, to not only touch but to sit in them with parental supervision. Next show we will have a sign that says "please feel free to touch". It's one way we can get kids interested in our cars but more important, gives us an opportunity to chat with the parents who are indeed at the age where they might just catch the vintage car bug from us.

Glen

Barber31 · 08-08-2014, 02:19 PM

Also one of the big obstacles I see is the age difference. Almost all the A owners I see online, on youtube or tv have had " long relationships with Father Time ". I personally would love to spend time with this age group as there is much to learn from them but being that I'm 30 and my wife is 27, I don't think there's much that they could learn from us. Except maybe about Facebook or new Bluetooth gadgets. The average young person is not gonna want to go out of his way to join a club that everybody ignores him.

Brother Hesekiel · 08-08-2014, 02:38 PM

Aged almost 57 right now, I've been a car guy all of my life, and was lucky enough -- starting in the mid-'80s, but getting serious in 1999 when the Internet took off -- to turn my hobby into my business. These days, we sell about 150 classic cars per year, the majority of them classic Porsche 911s, and the majority of those to the olde World.

I've owned numerous cars over the years and have driven pretty much everything I ever wanted to drive. Had I "invested" my disposable "hobby" money in a Porsche at any time in the past, I'd be looking at a serious monetary gain today. Thing is, I don't like Porsches very much, nor do I like Muscle Cars or most of the British variety. They are too "normal" for my taste, as is about every other car. It's like you work in a bakery and taste sweets all day, every day, at some point you just don't want those anymore. You want something else.

History confirms that people buy cars as a hobby that they lusted for as youngsters, when they couldn't afford them. That's why 1960s to 1980s Porsches are hot right now: the generation X folks always thought they'd be cool to own, being like Steve Mc Queen, but they simply didn't have the financial means to do so. Today they do.

The folks who fondly remember the Model A being a fixture on public roads, as it was during the time of the Waltons, are in their 60s, 70s, and 80s now. The A, albeit a much more modern and usable car than the Model T (which I also own), will follow the T into obscurity. It will be a strange thing to look at, but almost no generation Y and Z member will want to buy one.

One of the reasons I own a Model A Roadster is that I was able to afford one that needed really nothing to be enjoyed. I paid $14,5K for mine, and I drive it every weekend. I take it home on Friday, and drive it like my "normal" car 'til Monday morning, when I take it back and switch it with my '62 Volvo, which is my Monday-to-Friday everyday classic. Had the price for my car been $30K, I would not have been able to justify the purchase. Not because I don't have the money, but because I don't own any personal car that expensive, and I own 9 personal vehicles, and I drive 'em all. No trailer queens in my garage.

If you go on vacation, you spend thousands of dollars on quality time away from the daily grind. For me, every time I jump in my A and drive it, even to work, I'm still on vacation. If I do the same in my "modern" car, I'm part of the rat race. So what price to you put on vacation time? For me, it doesn't matter if my A will bring the same $14,5K when I sell it 20 years from now, or $8,5K, or $18,5K. Whatever the presumed loss will be, I chalk it up as the price of enjoyment. I do make money, and I invest money in my retirement fund, so I'm not ignorant of the need to save for retirement, but my toys are not investments. Sure, it would be nice if my A is worth twice what I paid for it when I'm ready to retire, but it's just a side-effect, not a prerequisite for choosing what I like.

Thus, I too feel that the Model A hobby will continue to decline, and any presumed increase in prices will merely offset the inflation. More cars will become available, less buyers will be there to sweep 'em up. Many of those will become hot rods, as those things simply apply to a younger generation. Like typewriters, old cameras, tube radios, and other mechanical devices, the Model A will become less of a common sight year after year after year. But it's not all bad, as declining prices also mean that more potential buyers can afford such a car.

Another thread is the legislator. In Europe we already have inner city zones where cars without a certain emission certification are no longer allowed. Eventually this will reach our shores. Once that happens, the old car hobby will take another hit. Now add to this the aforementioned fact that today's kids don't have the same connection to cars that we have, and the perfect storm is coming to our shores. Hopefully that will happen after I'm out of the picture.

waxhead · 08-08-2014, 02:53 PM

Interesting to read all of these comments and see responses from so many people in their 30's. I also am still in my 30's, if only just, so I think that not all hope is lost just yet. It seems to be that people in their 30's and 40's are at an age where they may have a disposable income that can afford themselves a "toy" to drive on weekends.

Although lowered, my car is still powered by an original engine and is pretty much stock, with the exception of a few go-fast engine parts. A lot of the younger generation around here are very interested in my car, and always ask questions about it, so there is some interest. Most are just at a stage in their life where they cannot afford a car just for fun.

The upside is, if prices fall, I will be able to add some more A's to my collection at a reasonable price.

yjwrangler95 · 08-08-2014, 03:01 PM

I'm 34 and in the process of restomodding my grandpa's model A. I'm doing all the work and he is having a ball watching it progress. The A has been in my possession for over 6 years and I finally got around to doing somthing with it. I strated a thread here on it.

I'm a Civil Engineer and very mechanical, I have been all my life. I grew up in the country and learned how to work on things out of necessity. Most of my friends are pretty mechanical, we build jeeps. I built this one below a couple of years ago.

As far as the hobby of Model A's I have yet to meet a person my age with a Model A in our area. Most of my friends are into wakeboarding, riding motorcycles and other motor sports. I really think thinsg are cyclical, trends come and go. Model A's will have a place in the future. It really depends on current owners. I learned quite a bit about Model A's from an older man that is no longer with us. He had one growing up. Its a generation issue, just like anything from long ago. Get your kids, grandkids, neighbors, friends involved. If they like it they will get involved. Just like anything, different strokes for different folks. The sooner you intruduce someone to Model A's the better it will be

Ted Duke · 08-08-2014, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

We need more younger people to get involved. I know in our club, I'm 35 and my wife is 33 and we are the youngest, with the next closes ages in their 50's.

We All need to invite someone younger than us to Model A or other old car meetings or event.

Roadster62 · 08-08-2014, 04:43 PM

That is the general feeling I get from many people here on The Ford Barn, I can count the "friendly" ones on one hand and I have fingers left. I got into the hobby when I was 10 years old and was the "Kid" at every event for many years. I found the hobby all on my own, the current cry for "Young Members" is just foreign to my way of thinking, if you have an interest you will find the hobby. Love of the cars is NUMBER ONE, the people can kill or kindle your interest. Don't let jerks bother you, if you get a bad feeling about someone ASK others, 9 out of 10 times they will confirm your gut reaction. I'm 63 now, last time the T was out was 15 years ago, and Dad's A was parked in 1983. Having the cars is the fun part for me, if they never run again what is it to you? My Grandson will get them, if he wants to spend the time and money to put them on the road fine. The cost of everything does have a big effect these days. A quart of primer and the stuff that goes with it will eat up most of a hundred dollar bill. A load of metal to the sandblaster will run you 200-300, so you now have clean parts in primer, but not any giant step in progressing to a finished project. Do restorations get started and finished by people 60 and older? Does it matter? Bob

Quote:

Originally Posted by bart78

I think what keeps a lot of younger people from restoring model A's. Is the attitude of a lot of the guys I have met. There are allways the one or two guys that know everything. And want to tell you all that is wrong even though you have not asked them. When you are at a local small car show. An you are telling another guy his tail lights are wrong. Or his wheel color is wrong. People don't want to hear that. I have known a lot of model a guys to be worse than Corvette guys.

bambooboy · 08-08-2014, 06:14 PM

I've been in the hobby 10 months&on ford barn 10 months(daily)I agree with most on younger generation.without getting political,we have to realize youngsters are paying huge taxes.in n.y. city you can pay up to 55% in taxes.this hobby should do fine at least another 20 years(maybe lower prices) with the 50,60&70 yr olds.got my almost finished bargain at age 70.seems almost daily I see (newbee here or got my 1st A asking a question or showing us pics.is this the normal thru the years or were there many more in the past? tom

Fred · 08-08-2014, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSunoco

Exactly Newshirt. Example: Look at NASCAR, and what's happening there. 12 or so years ago it was the 'cool' thing to be involved with. Today, attendance numbers are heading south big time. Teams are trying to merge. Who in the heck wants to drop $700 to go to one race with a couple of kids in tow,NOT a family oriented event. Naw, most folks are finding better things to do with their money and time.

Also, in the early 70's when I was in high school, I was the only guy interested in Model A's. My buddies thought I was nuts. So things really haven't changed all that much today

Really ?? Try and find some good seats at Richmond Va., Spring or fall..I am very close to the S/F line, row 27 & on the aisle with four seats @ $85.00 Each..

Mike V. Florida · 08-08-2014, 10:46 PM

I think it looks great. Better parts are being made. We have parts available equal to or exceeding any other car out there. I've read about the end of the Model a hobby for years now but we still read about cars being restored after being found all the time. With little of no modifications they can handle all the roads but highways with ease and for long duration's.

BlueSunoco · 08-09-2014, 08:05 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred

Really ?? Try and find some good seats at Richmond Va., Spring or fall..I am very close to the S/F line, row 27 & on the aisle with four seats @ $85.00 Each..

Fred, the TV must be playing tricks on my eyes because I see tons of empty seats in most NASCAR races I've stopped to look at. Maybe all those folks are out peeing.

My brother in Orange County, Calif. goes to Fontana quite a bit and he tells me the same, the place is not crowded at all lots of empty seats. Compared to years ago, he says attendance is really dropping out there.

Great Lakes Greg · 08-09-2014, 08:24 AM

Great comments. Somebody mentioned the target group should be the 40-60 year olds, not teenagers. Agreed. Teens and early-mid twenties are broke, consumed with their hormones, and live in apartments. It is a poor stage in life to try to get anybody to buy an impractical car.

BlueSunoco · 08-09-2014, 02:53 PM

And on another note.......... just spoke to my brother in SoCal about an hour ago, he's into cars too but of the muscle car persuasion. We were talking about the future of the hobby, and he says that even cars in the muscle car era are going to die off, that the interest just isn't there anymore. The cars are too expensive and the kids only want to play video games on their smart phones, etc. just like we've discussed here. He said 'Just stand on any corner in Southern California today and watch the traffic. EVERY other car is a Prius. You don't see the 60's early 70's cars anymore like you used to 15 years ago.' He also was over at Santa Margarita Ford this week talking to a good friend who sells new cars. He told my brother that 'We can't keep the plug in Hybrid Fusions on the lot, they sell as fast as they get unloaded especially to the young crowd. They think by doing that they are going 'Green' and turn their noses up at other models we have!'

California always sets the trend, that the rest of the nation follows. Not always bad, they were first in the 60's w/ the braless look thing but that is another story

Ed in Maine · 08-09-2014, 03:06 PM

Sometimes we must be careful what we wish for. If we over market the hobby, more people will be looking for Model As increasing the prices. I say keep it affordable and help the new comers that have the questions. It is a hobby, not an investment not a profitable venture. You don't have to have 30 years of experience with Model As to keep them running. As for getting new people into the hobby, take them for a ride. Let them look down that hood and see those two shinny head lamps moving down the road! It is what got me hooked! Ed

P.S. · 08-09-2014, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed in Maine

Let them look down that hood and see those two shinny head lamps moving down the road! It is what got me hooked! Ed

Truth be told... That is exactly what got me hooked also! Interesting that you would bring that up. Seeing the world go by in the headlight bucket reflection is so relaxing (as a passenger, of course).

Since I use my Model A as an "actual car" instead of a hobby, it just ends up that people end up riding in my Model A quite frequently. Nobody ever gets out of the Model A and says, "What a lousy ride!"

SteveB31 · 08-09-2014, 03:40 PM

The clubs, both local and national, generally are mostly older folks. They generally do older folks things on the club tours (eat, drive, eat ,) which does not appeal to younger folks.

The cars appeal to many younger folks, just like they do to older folks, because they are affordable ( A new car now costs $30000. A Model A costs $15000.). As one who spends all week talking to Model A people, I assure you the cars are wanted, but not often used by the younger folks in a club atmosphere since they only see older folks in the clubs.

The younger folks will spend money on them, because they have more money. I cannot count how many times in the last couple months, that a car has been passed down from older grandpa to grandson, who drove it a bit, called me and said "Can these cars be made to drive 55mph and stop on a dime? When I tell them , yes they can, they jump right in and spend $6000 on a good engine, good brakes etc. Grandpa would never do that , because he neither had the money, nor the motivation, as he was happy at 45 MPH and lousy brakes, since that was how it always was for the last 40 years he had the car.

Just my observations......

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center

SteveB31 · 08-09-2014, 03:42 PM

By the way.....by younger folks I mean 30s-50s.

As stated above, teenagers and 20s folks dont have much money and are busy buying houses, having kids, etc.....

Brother Hesekiel · 08-09-2014, 05:27 PM

As so often, there are two sides to any coin. Model As are so affordable because there are just so many out there. Look for a Chevrolet of the same year as yours and you'll see what I mean. The more cars disappear from the face of the Earth, the more expensive the remaining ones get. Not too long ago, a friggin' Sixties' Volkswagen Beetle could be had for peanuts. Now even the lonely Sedans sell for over $10K. Try to buy a 1959 or 1960 VW Beetle Cabriolet and you'll have to spend twice of what a similar Ford Model A would cost 'ya. So just lean back, enjoy your time with your Model A(s), and don't worry about what's going to happen when the next generation takes over. It's out of our hands anyway.

montanafordman · 08-09-2014, 06:27 PM

There are many interesting points being made. I'm a young guy @ 33 and the biggest three are time, space, and money - in any particular order with interest being a close 4th. If there were time, space, and money the interest might be found in greater numbers but guys even a few years younger than me have had a lot less exposure to shop classes or anyone with the time or willingness to teach them and kindle an interest in basics from how to change a tire to how to pack a wheel bearing or replace a u-joint. (in something modern let alone a model A).

Another thing that is going against the car hobby that hasn't been discussed much is the lack of interest in cars as a whole. Our culture is changing big time. Kids don't go out cruising like I did in school just 16 years ago and cars are not the symbol of freedom and style like we viewed them. Now cars are looked at as polluters and a liability. People meet in the digital world more than face to face and even new car manufacturers and dealers are scratching their heads in finding ways to sell to the millennial generation. Without interest only a small percentage of people with means will carry on the car hobby. I see a waning interest in vintage cars and car restoration as a whole not just Model A's.

mshmodela · 08-09-2014, 07:33 PM

There will always be buyers for a Model A that is in basic running shape, now supply may exceed demand but the cars are going no where.... Enjoy the drive and put a few smiles out those who see your car... Keep the cars on the road as much as possible is best the advertising there is.

And who cares about the investment stand point! That what stocks etc. are for... There as pure fun! Just like these:

Hardtail75 · 08-09-2014, 11:10 PM

Hi guys. I'm glad I found this thread. Perhaps I can explain things from my point of view to possibly help the community. I just turned 24. I'm sure I am one of the younger guys on this board..this will be a long post but I will try to explain how I found my way into this wonderful world of antique automobiles.

I am not sure what it is like in America, but I grew up in a small town here in Canada. Back in the 70s I'm told my high school was known for their automotive program. When I got there we were told that we would restore a Volkswagen Van from the 60s. The first day everybody touched a grinder. It was great.

Fast forward to the end of the year, that VW van sat there in the same spot with no work done to it. We basically learned theory all year and changed tires. It was uninspiring. We would detail our cars for those that were fortunate enough to drive a vehicle to school.

Speaking for myself, I have always been an adrenaline junkie. I road two wheels at the ripe age of 2 with no training wheels. At 5 dirt bikes. I've always wanted to go fast. I can remember my father telling me about his 1930 Ford 5 window coupe when he was a kid and blowing the rear section of the frame because it wasn't boxed in. Driving the piss out of his 69 Shelby GT 500 and all the other cool cars he had. These cars sounded great, but bikes are where my hearts at.

Most of my friends liked Motocross, but nobody was really into cars. When I was in high school the kid with the newest VW Jetta and a sound system was "cool".

First I bought me a Harley-Davidson, a 1975 XLCH. What a bike. It wasn't enough though, I have a strong appreciation for history. I looked at the Sportsters of the '60s and '70s and how bikers from those generations built them. Hooked. You do not see shit like that on the road, here at least. So I have been building my chopper ever since. This was all knew to me..the most work I have ever done mechanically was servicing my dirt bikes. I have never touched a grinder, welder, or hell a piece of steel. I restored the bike in it's original shape and then left to go to school to pursue some technical training. I got my Harley-Davidson Technician license.

When I got back from school I had the drive to build my vintage inspired chopper. It was an extremely daunting task. Off and on the bike was being built. I hard tailed the frame, built my prism tank, twisted the sissy bar, yada yada. My main source of knowledge came from the internet. I did not have many contacts to this world to get advice or inspiration from. But it's all documented on the internet. Most of the staff at my school fringed upon the generations of the past, gotta push the latest machines on you right. Sad how the motor company has become now.

So I am happy with my motorcycle project and I discovered I really do love building things. So I saved some money and wanted to get a classic car. I found a '66 Grande Parisienne. Not know anything about buying these things, I got a lemon. Took it to a mechanics shop to get them to check it over, discovered the body mounts were rotten. The car got some work done to it but then that was it, I did not know how to weld and I soon spent all my money trying to get something on the road that just wasn't going to happen.

It sat for just under a year. By that time I was comfortable welding from working on my bike. I was shown how to turn the machine on and that was it. So I said to myself, "look man you spent all this money on this metal, why let it sit there and rot further into the ground?". I made a hoist out of trees, literally cut down trees and braced them together to hold the body of this car lol.

This was a big WTF do I do now? The whole trunk pan was destroyed. So I patched everything the best I could to keep as much of the original structure that I could. It looked god awful. So I measured everything up and made one giant piece to fit from the rear seats all the way to the trunk latch. Looking pretty good now. I'm proud of that shit. I was not able to buy a trunk pan for this car and everyone told me you can't fix it....I wasn't gonna take that for an answer lol. So I rebuilt all the body mounts looking just like they came out of the factory. I just got a 454 and a Muncie 4 speed for this car so it should be a lot of fun.

This car was a huge learning process for me. Most of what I believe I could have learned when I was in high school. I do not have special tools for my Pontiac or my Harley. Everything was done with a grinder and a small mig welder. One thing I can say is that people my age do appreciate these things, but have no idea where to start? A lot of people I've come across are complete pricks. I go into the body shop to buy supplies, but I know absolutely nothing about paint so I'm looked down upon. When they laugh at me and say "hey kid what the **** could you possibly be working on?", a piece of me just thinks this is one reason why you do not see young people doing this kind of shit. Their attitude changes right quick when they hear about cars from the 20s-60s. It's like a deer in headlights they can't believe it.

One thing I can say is that you can use the internet to your advantage. I don't have a clue where I could get the advice that you guys give me here than in person. A few guys I have met with Model A's just laugh saying that my car will be rust for years to come, let me buy it off you. It's hard to find people that want to mentor.

Like many of you said when you go to car shows some people are snobs and pick at your vehicle. It shouldn't be like that. There should always be a sense of family. Those people forget that they are hurting the community when they talk like that, or are just oblivious to it. These things are supposed to bring people together. I'm just a novice, but I am extremely enthusiastic about passing on what I know.

Anyways I don't know what the hell I am rambling about but basically for my situation I was just determined to get involved with cars and bikes. If it was not for the internet I probably never would of been exposed to this world of cars. I do not see any of the clubs advertised ever.

All I can say right now is this, if it wasn't for online communities such as this it would be extremely difficult for people to get involved without knowing someone first hand...and that's the case for many. Now when my friends see me working on this stuff they ask if they can help because they see something getting done. We youngsters are proud to get something on the road, just like you were at our age.

Even the kid driving the lowered Honda Civic with a Cherry bomb looks at these cars. He thinks it's a sick ride, but how the hell am I gonna build that?

KR500 · 08-10-2014, 12:20 AM

Here in the U.S.the auto will always have a following. What I have seen overthe years are older guys having to give up driving and selling their A's. If lucky enough they have interested their son or daughter enough to carry on their passion for the car. Some may find an interested party who knows they have the car and eventually sell it to them. I recall many individuals owning ONE Model A and enjoying it totally. Now the trend would appear that there are less individuals who own a car and more who own 2,3, and 4 cars. My father who always dreamed of buying a Model A and finally was coerced by my brother and I to purchase this 1930 coupe. The owner lost his garage storage (1967) and had to get rid of the car. For $500 we became the owners. My father always encouraged his sons into cars. It became a passion of anything with 2 wheels and 4 wheels, the oldest to roughly at least 10 years old. I admit the younger generation does not have the same passion for our 4 wheeled friends as the older generation. The old autos will always hold an interest for younger people. How do you get them interested, Not by eliminating auto shop classes in school. Now the cost factor. I agree with those who if you are buying an old car for an investment, you are getting it for the wrong reason. Someone who collects stamps, coins, Match Box cars, 1/25 promos, matchbooks, or postcards doesn't do it to get rich. They do it for the love of the collecting.The hobby stays healthy when we keep this focus. I encourage any way you can to get younger folks into the hobby. You can give 5 or 10 free memberships in your local club to non-member young people and get them to the tech nights, tours, and meetings. If they like it they will continue to come and stay.

KenCoupe · 08-10-2014, 12:22 AM

My opinion is that speed plays a part in younger people not being interested in Model A's. My son (now 31) told me a few years ago "I got the dad that likes slow cars." However, his grandmother (my mother-in-law) passed away recently and he has seen the distribution of her estate. He now says he has "dibs" on the Model A when I go to greener pastures.

Back to the speed thing, look at the cars young people want now - "rice rockets". They have body kits to make them look faster, and speed equipment to make them go faster. If they are interested in old cars at all, they would want a muscle car that can go fast. The pace of life these days is faster than it was when I was a teenager in the late 60's. Video games are fast, TV shows have lots of fast action, etc.

A bunch of guys with old cars such as Model A's, early V-8s, etc. get together on Friday's at a local fast food place for lunch. I am not retired yet, but I have been able to attend a couple of times. One time, we had finished lunch and were out by the cars kicking the tires. A mom and her two boys - probably about 8 and 10 years old - came over and were looking at the cars. When they got to my 31 coupe, the older boy was looking in the window. I told him to push the black button in the middle of the steering wheel. When he did, the boys go big smiles from the Ahooga they heard. I hope they will remember that someday and get a Model A with an Ahooga horn of their own.

hootchmonster · 08-10-2014, 05:11 AM

20140719_104422.jpg 20140716_173716.jpg
I'm doing my part.
We have had my grandfathers Town Sedan since April or so and are coming up on 1000 miles. My kids, and several neighbor kids, enjoy taking our A out for rides regularly. We have been to several car shows and a state Model A reunion with it. There are four other of grandpa's A's in the family. Three families have had their A's for 10+ years and I know we have put more miles on our car in the past few months than my aunts, uncles, and cousins cars combined. I think the two oldest kids might know more about A's then them also.
There are alot of other cars or trucks that I'd rather have, but since we got our car I have really enjoyed it. I wish the other family members were in a club. It's one thing that has really helped us out.

BlueSunoco · 08-10-2014, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montanafordman

........ only a small percentage of people with means will carry on the car hobby. I see a waning interest in vintage cars and car restoration as a whole not just Model A's. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Hate to be the pessimist but I have to pretty much agree with Montanafordman.

I know the emphasis today is on speed. That's what sells cars. Look at the car manufacturer's ads on TV. Especially the foreign makes. Every little four door four cylinder sedan is SCREAMING around some road way, sliding sideways while the tires are turning backwards and the little disclaimer on the screen telling you that this is a professional driver don't YOU do that. However, driving on America's roadways today, ain't nobody reading the disclaimer especially the 18 year old girls age group. Dang, getting very dangerous out there the way a lot of people drive. A new movie could be made 'No Country for Model A Fords' instead of 'No Country for Old Men'

Combination of our slow cars, inattentive impatient people driving up behind you texting and driving, people who only think of themselves and don't respect other's life and property, and a general culture of disrespect. Not the same driving environment of 1970 I'm here to tell you.

mshmodela · 08-10-2014, 10:46 AM

If speed was that big of deal why is the hottest market in new bicycles are one speed fat tire cruise bike?

cradlescyth · 08-10-2014, 10:54 AM

Yes John the close group thing is not promoting the A

Get out and drive to local cruise night and see the people that

will look at your car. They see the newer cars all the time but very

few of the T's and A"s

Just my .02 worth

BlueSunoco · 08-10-2014, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshmodela

If speed was that big of deal why is the hottest market in new bicycles are one speed fat tire cruise bike?

??? Not talking about bicycles...............

Colin Farquhar · 08-13-2014, 06:34 PM

HI There:
This is a great website-lots of information to be had! My $0.10 on the future of the Model A…

I'm relatively young (31), learned to drive on a 1930 AA at our local museum. I've found the issue with getting people my age or younger interested in any of my vintage hobbies (1920's-30's jazz, steam traction engines, or old cars) is just physically getting them out and involved. You can have as many outreach emails, car shows, and W-H-Y as you like, but the secret (I've found) to getting people hooked is getting them immediately involved with something active. Whenever people show interest in the 99 year old steam traction engine I run at our local museum, I talk to them, get them up on the engine, go for a ride! I would think the same thing would go for vintage cars as well-working on them or looking at them is all fine, but take people out for a ride to get them hooked.

The second issue I could see would be $$. Personally speaking, I'd love to have a rough & running A or AA truck, to use in the summer as a work truck/support vehicle for our traction engine, as it would look much better sitting by the engine than my 2002 Silverado. That said, the cost of getting a Model A, along with having a place to store/work on it, hasn't really been viable for us yet. Having a spare $5,000, along with a house/shop isn't in the immediate cards.

Thanks,
Colin

hangarb7 · 08-13-2014, 06:45 PM

Colin, I agree.

I bought my car at 55 (60 years old now) BUT I had a ride in one when I was 8 years old and vowed then that I would have one some day.

Some day I may have another old car like a '50's truck or something, but I cannot imagine my life without my '30 Tudor.

Take as many kids for a ride as possible!

JackD

Arlen · 08-14-2014, 02:28 AM

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I'm 32 and have been in the hobby for10 years. I don't think it's a lack of interest in the cars, its a lack of funds. People in their 20's don't have $15,000 for an antique car. What's missing to me is the group in their 40's. I don't see any in that age group, I'm guessing that's the muscle car group but its people in their 40's who have fun money for toys. I do expect the interest in A's to continue to go down as we move farther and farther away from original production days. Reproduction of parts will slow down considerably. Businesses offering services like cad plating or stainless steel repair will mostly dry up and at some point down the road, original parts just get too old or worn out to fix anymore.

nickair · 08-14-2014, 04:06 AM

Things our society is loosing ground on for the average Americans are:

Model A's are at the bottom end of antique car cost which will keep the hobby alive for decades to come, but at a reducing rate.

Time, space, and buying power.

Time: I am in my 50's and growing up fun was cars rather than today's video games and technology. We used to and still do work on them during the week and go cruise, do drive-ins and run around on the weekends with our classics. We have 3 classics in the garage and love them all. People's time is spent differently now, young and old. Computers, smart phones and video games are mainstream and popular items of time and money consumption. Cars are not so much something to do for fun now days. Many want cars that are already restored, although that has always been true.

Space: Smaller lots and smaller garages. Shops are not very common in newer developments. Many just don't have the space for a Model A project. Hard for people to justify parking their 40 or 50K modern daily vehicle outside in the weather, because the $15K model A project is in the garage.

Buying power: I was just last week at the Chrome shop asking what it would cost to re-chrome my 31 tudor bumpers. Was quoted 255 for the front and 155 each side for the rear. Now we know that there are polished stainless bumpers new out there for around 300. So, 45 more than re-chroming would get me brand new polished SS bumpers. Cost is relative, but the younger generations mostly don't have the capitol to play with something they would not drive to work and back. Yes, many of us will drive our classics anywhere (as an adventure,) but do you think the younger gen wants to go on a long trip in summer with a model A? A few will, although it does not have a smart phone or ipad charger :-) Model A's are not expensive, but they are expensive toys for a younger family to have take up a garage space.

Commodity: We know this involves supply and demand. As there are less model A owners with the heart, time, space and buying power to restore these great cars, there will be an overall long term value downturn. The fleet of A's will go to patina/age. As others have wrote their will be more A's hacked up to accommodate modern engine swaps and other equipment modification to make them a modern roadable vehicle. I like watching the fence posts go by. I like the basic Model A with very few mods for traveling. The hobby will decrease in numbers, although it won't go away. Just my thoughts...

John Duden · 08-14-2014, 09:41 PM

First off i would have to say I LOVE MY TRUCK! IT IS MY PRIDE AND JOY!! i have been hooked on model t's since as long as i can remember grandpas old Model t truck. And i have loved model A's since we bought my 28 truck. So dont get me wrong.....

I believe the future of the hobby has some home, but there is a selective few (even on this fourm) who decide they know best and always are nasty and rude to new members or other Older members as well.
For a while i lost interest in model a's since i got sick of drama that had been taking place. LIGHTEN UP! WE ARE ALL HERE TO HAVE A GOOD TIME AND TO LEARN AND ENJOY!
Numerous Knowledgeable people have left since we all cannot see Eye to eye on topics. EVERY ONE HAS THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE! GET OVER IT!!! If your a purist BE A PURIST TEACH AND LEARN LIKE A PURIST! if your an Enjoyer of the car ENJOY THE CAR FOR WHAT IT IS!...and if your a ...rodder.. be a rodder.. WE ALL NEED TO LEARN THAT THERE IS ROOM FOR EVERY ONE IN THIS GREAT HOBBY!!
I'll get off my pulpit now
John

roccaas · 08-14-2014, 10:06 PM

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...ar-collecting/

Roadster62 · 08-14-2014, 10:28 PM

X2! You're one of the guys I'd like to meet some day. I'm 63 and selling off a lot of the crap I've filled the house and garage with over the years. The idea is to fund the projects I have, if I could have both A's in finish primer ready for paint I'd be a happy camper. I have no desire to ever drive them. To me looking at them is what makes me happy. If you aren't happy you need a different hobby. Bob

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Duden

First off i would have to say I LOVE MY TRUCK! IT IS MY PRIDE AND JOY!! i have been hooked on model t's since as long as i can remember grandpas old Model t truck. And i have loved model A's since we bought my 28 truck. So dont get me wrong.....

I believe the future of the hobby has some home, but there is a selective few (even on this fourm) who decide they know best and always are nasty and rude to new members or other Older members as well.
For a while i lost interest in model a's since i got sick of drama that had been taking place. LIGHTEN UP! WE ARE ALL HERE TO HAVE A GOOD TIME AND TO LEARN AND ENJOY!
Numerous Knowledgeable people have left since we all cannot see Eye to eye on topics. EVERY ONE HAS THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE! GET OVER IT!!! If your a purist BE A PURIST TEACH AND LEARN LIKE A PURIST! if your an Enjoyer of the car ENJOY THE CAR FOR WHAT IT IS!...and if your a ...rodder.. be a rodder.. WE ALL NEED TO LEARN THAT THERE IS ROOM FOR EVERY ONE IN THIS GREAT HOBBY!!
I'll get off my pulpit now
John

nickair · 08-14-2014, 11:33 PM

Model A hobby/lifestyle is enjoyable even without a driving Model A. It is nice to enjoy working on them and the reward of seeing your work as restoration. There is something special about restoring and improving the condition of anything, especially Model A's.

Then there is the pride of owning a piece of history that has been shared for generations. That will always be endeared by people.

Richie R · 08-15-2014, 01:22 AM

I don't think there is a universal way anyone gets into A's. When I was growing up (now 44) I had my Dad talk about the old Fords V8 kettles, Buick straight 8s and Dodge 6s he had when younger. When he met my mum he had a 40s dodge still in 67.
I guess my interest comes from wanting to create a bit of the past reminding me of the time my dad was growing up.
I love all old cars, but the thing I love about my A parts collection is to keep the project moving forward I can take a small panel in the shed, work on it and put it away to the next step it needs to become a working car.
It's just a big building block set.

inex01 · 08-15-2014, 05:47 AM

I am only here once "as far as I know" and did not buy my Model A for an investment could care less if the younger generation is interested in Model A cars.

I enjoy the car and especially enjoy the other people who own Model As just a super group no matter how young or old they are seem to be looking for a new touring adventure and just talking about how great the Model A is, and the older guys/gays are not sitting around waiting to die !

My feeling is the Model A will always be a car that people who are interested in history and turning a wrench will want because the price will most likely be reasonable, parts will still be more available even if not being made any longer compared to a old Packard.

So relax it is all good and am sure our cars will be around much longer than we will !

rosenkranswa · 08-15-2014, 08:32 AM

My son, 31 and just married, likes the old cars but isn't in to them per se. Ditto his lovely wife. My daughter, 25, on the other hand loves the old cars and everything associated with them and their era; vintage clothing, military re-enacting, shows, swing dance - its like she was born in the wrong century, and she's found lots of folks her age that are the same. They all have the latest cell phones, and play the occasional video game, but she's the one usually getting us out of the house in the Model A to go dancing. She drives the T, A, V8 and the Jeep, and talks about having a swing wedding reception in a hanger at the local airfield when the time comes. She was born just after my mom passed away - makes you wonder...

newshirt · 08-15-2014, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosenkranswa

My daughter, 25, on the other hand loves the old cars and everything associated with them and their era; vintage clothing, military re-enacting, shows, swing dance - its like she was born in the wrong century...

I met a kid just like that last weekend! Want to get them together?

Haha!

This kid had a '42 Jeep with all the trimmings. Original guns, gear, sirens, newspapers, jackets, hats, uniforms, and even a portable wind-up record player with 78's. This kid knew every detail of his GPW -- all the original parts with Ford script, repro parts, original specs, speeds, everything. And he wanted to know all about my Model A. He was clearly into it!

So these kids may surprise us!

bart78 · 08-15-2014, 09:16 AM

I converted a guy from wanting to fix up another c10. To wanting a model a. I toke him to a place that most people don't think exist any more. A old guy we go to church with has a big hoard of cars. And has sold the property they are on. I have been asked to move them all. And I am going to need this guys help to move the larger mid 30's to early 40's cars. My payment is going to cars and parts for moving them all. He fell in love with one of the AA's. It needs restored. But he seemed to be real excited about it. For helping me I told him I would tell the guy I wanted that AA. I don't if it was that converted him. Or getting to see a place like this. Where there are so many cars and parts. It will be neat to see what all we find. The old guy does not even remember what is all in the barns and sheds.

billwill · 08-15-2014, 09:31 AM

The MONEY is not out herYoung poeple are having troublr are fining it hard to fine agood paying job let a log by an pld car they cant drive.think abot it.

Skibb · 08-15-2014, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Model A Man

In my opinion the cost is what is keeping youngsters from owning model A's. License fees cost of insurance. The cost of getting a motor rebuilt only to have it last a short time ( upward of $4,000.00) when you can buy a complete 327 motor for $1,500.00 that will last for years. The cost of rebuilding the brake system is a thousand plus. when I rebuilt the brakes on my dodge truck, including four new rotors was less than $400.00. Plus there are not many jobs available for the young crowd that will afford them the luxury of owning a model a or t . If better parts and more reliable rebuilds were available I know I would own many more model a's and I would love to own a model t. (I am really hoping that Tod will have at least have solved some of the issues i mentioned by having new affordable model a motors available soon)

There are enough Model A's, Parts Houses and access to Technical Information to support a thriving hobby. Yet, we just went through a long, nasty recession where ppl lost houses, jobs, savings. IMO we aren't back to the what was taken for normal. I returned to this wonderful hobby late in life because I just love driving Model A's. While a newbie can run into all the nit pickers mentioned here and an old guard that isn't helpful, it's not the majority. What hampers our hobby is the clash of technologies. Try to find a Model A engine builder in your town. It's not going happen. $4000 for a rebuilt engine is almost the norm. So, I'm with Model A Man.

David31dlxslant · 08-15-2014, 10:05 AM

I'm 27 years old and bought my first model a when I was 18, I love the hobby and it keeps me out of trouble, but I'm by far the youngest member in our local model a club, young people my age think model a's are cool but have no desire to have one bc they're "too slow". They're raising families and most can't afford one anyways

oliverguy · 08-15-2014, 01:54 PM

I think we will be fine. The value of model A's has held steady with inflation or gone up slightly. The vendors that have gone out of buisness or have consolidated which probably was needed. Some of them were just selling the same bagged parts MAC's imports from China. Someone will buy Chaffin's business, maybe combine it with another model a service. People still want to buy Ruxtell axels. Chaffin wants to retire, he's old. it's not that there isn't a demand for his product.

I'm not sure why there is always this wringing of the hands about the death of the hobby. Dooms dayers. Technology such as internet forums, ebay, you tube videos and smartphones have done nothing but help the hobby.

Have faith that everything is going to be fine. If your worried, give your car to some young person when you can't use it any longer.

cohammer60 · 08-15-2014, 07:28 PM

I am 55 years old and have for some reason always loved a ford . When I was a child I lived right next door to a junk yard and was forbidden to go around it . Of course from age 5 until I moved at 10 years old I slipped right thru the woods and into the shed behind the junkyard . There was a T model and an A model I used to sit in and pretend they were mine. I am afraid things sometime go away too fast when people lose interest or think they are not modern enough. Who would have ever thought online banking would take the place of in town banks, online shopping will probably kill the big retail stores, email is killing the post office, electronic signs taking all the bill boards , camera phones took away photo stores, online news is doing away with the printed news paper. I miss going to the gas station and having my windows washed , car filled up an put it on the ticket and pay at the end of the month to home town people I knew. I hope all the old cars survive with more interest from younger people.

neds29 · 08-16-2014, 09:33 AM

I've loved Model A's since the '60's and had one in my backyard when I was 16(Borrowed the battery out of Mom's VW to start it). The prices went up in the '70's and '80's, and then down, and now I'm surprised at how inexpensive they've become. I'm almost more surprised to see people taking restored A's and stripping them to make their version of "old school" (hate that term) hot rods or worse, rat rods, out of them. There are still lots around and I suppose that a "floor" will be reached where a certain number will remain as stock restored, while quite a few will be hot rodded, and some simply abandoned. It's a moving target. Nowadays the young folks like cars that I had when I was in my 20's, '57 Chevys, GTO's, Mustangs, etc. I can't see paying $50,000 for a '67 GTO, but then they can't appreciate a 1929 Model A either.
Ned

joltesvig · 08-16-2014, 11:20 AM

I'm 66. The reason I own a 31 Coupe is that my father-in-law restored it, a 31 pick-up, a 31 Sedan and a 30 roadster. When he died, we got the roadster. I love the car but my wife takes no interest at all in it...I all most have to shame her to go for a ride with me. But I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, like to keep it up and drive it. So I go joy riding in it. I have learned a lot about fixing the electrical system, cooling system, greasing it and correcting little things that go wrong. I had the speedometer restored but now there's something wrong with the cable and it reads zero all the time. So I drive it "by ear". The coupe has 39 hydraulic brakes on it. I have repacked the bearings. I'm getting ready to adjust up those 39 hydraulic brakes since I only have a couple inches left before the pedal bottoms out on the floorboard! So this coupe has made a nice hobby for me now that I'm fully retired and I have a good time with it. I'm not very clubby and I don't have a desire to go to shows but maybe I should because I could meet some nice people.
My son is 33. He lives in downtown Oakland California. He inherited my father-in-laws 31 Pickup truck. Everything is so expensive out there in the land of fruits and nuts that I doubt that he will every be able to afford a garage to keep it in! Right now it sits exactly were it was when my father-in-law died (Michigan). My son is more interested in big city stuff and spends a lot of time with his laptop. But give him 30 years, he may come around.
My brother-in-law inherited the Roadster. It is a beauty but it too sits right where it was when the grim reaper passed through. He is more interested in the Edsel that my father-in-law also restored for him. So the roadster has just been sitting there for five years. What a shame! I offered $20 thousand to him for the roadster but he just continues to sit on it but shows no interest in getting it running or maintaining it or anything. He will retire this year maybe then he'll get something going with it.
I feel blessed to have the pretty 31 coupe, to be able to drive it and take care of it. But whenever I die, who knows what will happen to it? Guys these days aren't very mechanically oriented and learning how to start a Model A and double clutch seems to be beyond their idea of a good time!
I would like to thank all you contributors to the Ford Barn. Without your guidance and interest in us new guys to Model A's, I would not be having nearly the fun I'm having today. I drove my Coupe into town, picked up two nice rib-eyes and stopped for gas. While getting gas, a young black girl leaned out of the window in the next bay and told me that the coupe was classy. I had to agree with her and thanked her for commenting.

Roadster62 · 08-16-2014, 11:23 AM

Don't forget what real GTO's are selling for. Bob

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/08/15/1...monterey-2014/

marc hildebrant · 08-16-2014, 02:48 PM

I took my Model A to a car wash today. It was a benefit for the towns swim team.

When I pulled in the car for the washing, all team members gathered around my car for a picture. The teenagers (high school kids) thought the car was great.

The future is fine for old cars if they are taken out and shown.

Marc

fiddlybits · 08-26-2014, 10:55 PM

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I got my A in October and managed to get it on the road in the spring.

I started attending any Model A event immediately after getting the car.

I am a new face and a new car at every event I have attended yet I have yet to be approached by other A owners and asked who I was and if I was in a chapter, etc.

And...when I have reached out I have mostly received the attitude of "whatever".

Future??? Hah!

Tom Wesenberg · 08-26-2014, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiddlybits

I got my A in October and managed to get it on the road in the spring.

I started attending any Model A event immediately after getting the car.

I am a new face and a new car at every event I have attended yet I have yet to be approached by other A owners and asked who I was and if I was in a chapter, etc.

And...when I have reached out I have mostly received the attitude of "whatever".

Future??? Hah!

Where do you live?

My experience has been just the opposite.

Domino · 08-26-2014, 11:40 PM

Thatwould be very unusual if you were in Texas. We have 8 model A Clubs and the folks are quite friendly andvery helpfui. come on down.

Dodge · 08-27-2014, 01:49 AM

Another reality is the number of Model A chassis for sale lately from restored cars that
are being robbed of their bodies for hot rods.
There have been 5 on ebay lately and as many on craigslist around here.
I bought a complete chassis with a rebuilt motor, trans, rear end radiator and shell and
4 fenders for $1200. I am going to keep it for spares.

dumb person · 08-27-2014, 02:02 AM

i don't see a future with any technology in it to be honest...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Another reality is the number of Model A chassis for sale lately from restored cars that
are being robbed of their bodies for hot rods.
There have been 5 on ebay lately and as many on craigslist around here.
I bought a complete chassis with a rebuilt motor, trans, rear end radiator and shell and
4 fenders for $1200. I am going to keep it for spares.

i'm surprised people are not turning out woody wagons from those. i would.

BlueSunoco · 08-27-2014, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Another reality is the number of Model A chassis for sale lately from restored cars that
are being robbed of their bodies for hot rods.
There have been 5 on ebay lately and as many on craigslist around here.
I bought a complete chassis with a rebuilt motor, trans, rear end radiator and shell and
4 fenders for $1200. I am going to keep it for spares.

That price beats four grand for a motor rebuild alone, of course depending on 'who' rebuilt it and the level of their skills!! Good way to snag onto some good parts. Chances are they have been refinished already if the car was 'restored' again, depends on the individual who did the work...................

armchair67 · 08-28-2014, 02:02 AM

I agree with a lot that has been said here. I am 40 now, and am picking up my first Model A this weekend. Super excited about it, and I sold an infinitely more modern, luxurious, fast, car to get it-I have a couple of vintage VWs and one car had to go so as to preserve my marriage, so my Cadillac CTS-V was the choice. Realistically, my reason for buying the A is probably a little different than most these days-I wanted something cool and interesting to drive ever day. Back and forth to my plumbing service shop, downtown for dinner, errands, taking my son and stepkids out, etc.

The way I got into cars was through my dad. He always had interesting cars. His daily driver was a '68 Beetle, back in the late 70s-mid 80s. It was eventually replaced by a BMW and other more modern cars, but the memories of that VDub stuck with me to this day. He has also had a 51 MG TD since he was 19 and he would take my brother and I out in it as well as his Jag E type. If he had a Chevy Nova instead of that Beetle, or the MG, who knows, maybe I would not be into cars at all now.

I used to go with a group of 4 or 5 friends once a year to Southern California to VW shows and drag races, and as we all had kids, it was harder for everyone to make it. I kept going-and bring my son once a year now and he totally loves it, and now when I am out working on the car, he comes out with me to help. I got him addicted at a young age! So hopefully it sticks.

People still see VWs and Muscle cars-be it on the road, at drag races, car shows, on TV, etc. So I think it is exposure-on a personal level like my dad with me, or me with my son, or on a larger level like media-that will keep the hobby alive.

I saw two model As at a local car show this year which is what really made me actually decide I had to have one-but as it started raining, several people in the show were frantically trying to cover their cars up with tarps and plastic. Take it easy, and get out and DRIVE your cars-keeping them covered up in a garage is no way to get exposure to generations that do not know they exist.

Jeff/Illinois · 08-28-2014, 10:41 AM

I can't see paying $50,000 for a '67 GTO, but then they can't appreciate a 1929 Model A either. (quote from Ned)

I agree. There's no way today's youth will pay six figures that we see today, for those Hemi Cudas and Boss 429 Mustangs in the future, no way. if that's your idea of 'investing' best look somewhere else. Today's American youth is not the car culture we are. Overall, they can care less. They have other interests. The media demonizes the automobile as does the Green movement and many teachers they have all thru school. We all agree on this. We all see it. Been talked about on here ad nauseum.

ODFever · 11-15-2014, 02:22 PM

First off, I'd like to thank M2M for starting this discussion, and thank everyone that has tossed their $.02 onto the thread. I'm learning a great deal from y'all, and am thankful I became a FordBarn'er.

A little background on me: I am a Gen X'er that has loved 4 wheel vehicles of all shapes and sizes, starting around the time I learned to walk. I grew up watching MotorWeek. I savored every word from John Davis and Pat Goss. At age 4, I was transfixed as Alan Alda drove a WWII jeep on the set of MASH. Hawkeye fueled my thirst for military vehicles that needed to be quenched. About ten years ago, I was able to buy a Viet Nam era military jeep.

Although my obsession was with all things olive drab, I had a nagging desire to own a Model A that started around the beginning of 1999. I am fascinated by the simplicity of Model A's. As an IT professional, I enjoy vehicles that do not have any computers. I see computers as tools that can break. I long for the simpler time of a bygone era. This puts me in a unique situation – all of my fellow 'computer guy' coworkers live, eat, and breathe technology. I admire Model A's because they come from an era where there was no such thing as a computer. The entire car was drafted on drafting tables using rulers, pencils, and ingenuity. I'm intrigued by the mechanical functionality of the A (no DOT 3 or 5 brake fluid!!!). I also think the A is one of the most beautiful vehicles ever produced. No one in my family owns an A, or ever talked about owning an A. My grandparents passed away many years ago, and took their stories of their old cars with them to the grave. My interests were spurred on by the simplicity of the vehicle, and the history of the US during the period in which they were produced.

About the same time we bought the jeep, we joined the local Model A club. My wife and I were members of that club for about 4 years. There were a few people in the club we really liked, and we felt like they were our adopted grandparents. Many others, however, treated us like little kids. I remember one discussion we had about record players and typewriters. Someone said “you're too young to remember what a 33 is." I looked her square in the eyes and said “My wife and I own two functioning record players, and one typewriter. You will have to pry the stacks of wax out of my cold, dead hands. Oh, and I use that typewriter about once a month.” The look on her face was priceless!! I do NOT like being treated as if I was a young, wet behind the ears child.

Anyway, life got in the way and we left the club. Our desire for an A was shelved until very recently. (Thankfully my wife shares the same passion for Model A's AND military vehicles as I do!). I just sold the jeep, and we have our eyes on a stunningly beautiful fully restored 1930 Fordor Deluxe Town Sedan. I'm in the process of making room in the garage for her arrival. When we bring her home, we will re-join the local Model A club. I hope to be welcomed with open arms, but am prepared for the cold shoulder.

Tom Wesenberg · 11-15-2014, 02:42 PM

ODFever, you did good to sell the Jeep and buy the Model A. I think you will find the Model A much more fun and practical, and you bought a very desirable and comfortable Model A.

Actually the lady in the club paid you a compliment for thinking you were too young to know about records. When I was 32 years old I was in a small town convenience store eating an ice cream sandwich. The gal at the register was about 20 and told me I'd better get back to school or I'd be late. She made my day.

Tom Wesenberg · 11-15-2014, 02:43 PM

ODFever, I was at a threashing show years ago and looking at a nice small upright engine. I asked the owner what an engine like that would be worth, and he said "you don't look like you could afford it". Since he didn't know me from Adam, I thought that was a dumb statement, but there are many who engage their mouth before their brain.

ODFever · 11-15-2014, 05:05 PM

Tom - Thanks for the kind words. A Model A fits my life a lot better now. The A we are buying reminds me of an elegant living room on wheels. I love the little pull-down window shades and the hand-made wooden shift knob. I love the trunk on the back and the dual spare tires. I love the two tone olive drab paint. I love everything about the car. I've had the honor of driving three different A's. All of them are so quiet at a stop that I had to goose the throttle just to make sure the engine was still running! I LOVE THAT!! :-) A's are definitely more family-friendly than most military vehicles. I'm used to the speed limitations so 45 is no big deal to me. I want my little girl to appreciate the beauty and elegance of the piece of history-on-wheels that will soon grace our garage.

ODFever · 11-15-2014, 07:51 PM

p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 120%; } Web sites are useful, but also a burden. It takes time to develop and maintain a web site. Static club web sites act merely as placeholders for a club's existence. Texting, instant messaging, online forums such as this one, and Facebook overshadow the traditional club structure controlled by Robert's Rules. Smartphones have permeated nearly every part of our lives. Forward thinking clubs that utilize technology to assist with the growth of the club will have a much better chance of encouraging younger generations to join.

It would be helpful to encourage Model A clubs to participate in all car shows that allow any year/make/model vehicle to participate. Exposure and explanation are key points for any hobby to grow. Many schools have a transportation day, where all types of vehicles are on display for the kids. Participating in events such as these raises the awareness of the vehicles, and plants the seeds in the future generations.

I've been to many military vehicle static displays over the years. I've seen lots of MV owners create bulletin boards and place them in front of their vehicles. Often, they have history of their vehicle and pictures of the vehicles as they were used in active duty. This gives a more complete picture of the truck. For those unfamiliar with the 20's and 30's, it's hard to quantify 85 years. There's no frame of reference when looking at the car. Wouldn't it be cool to hand a binder filled with pictures taken in the 1930's to someone that peaks an interest in your car? They would see the place and time that the cars were popular and hopefully better understand your A. The bigger picture might just spark an interest in preserving history and buying a Model A.

nospartsman · 11-16-2014, 01:56 PM

The best place to check on the health of the A and T part of the hobby is to ask the sellers of reproduction parts, what I have heard is that the T business is better than it has ever been, especially export and there are more unique items available now for A then at anytime. As for young people getting into A's or T's the best thing you can do is drive your car and answer every question as if it was the first time you heard it. Tell them if they're interested they should be able to buy a running Model A and never loose a dime on the purchase price if they learn values in advance. Gearheads are born everyday, not easily created.

Mike V. Florida · 11-16-2014, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

ODFever, I was at a threashing show years ago and looking at a nice small upright engine. I asked the owner what an engine like that would be worth, and he said "you don't look like you could afford it". Since he didn't know me from Adam, I thought that was a dumb statement, but there are many who engage their mouth before their brain.

We come across these kind of guys all the time.

As for the original question on this thread, Have you noticed the up tick in the number of first time owners on the Barn? I think we are doing fine as a hobby.

oliverguy · 11-17-2014, 10:53 AM

One thing I have noticed in PA to the detriment of our restored model A's is how hard it is to get a title for a project vehicle or a hot rod. PA has made it so difficult, with special inspections that need to be done (and rules that say the car must pass modern inspection standards) that guys buy a running model A for the body and the title. They then use the body for their rod and register the car as a 19XX ford using the title from the orginal car. They then sell the bones. Try getting a bare chassis titled in PA without any paperwork. Damn near impossible.

I see quite a lot of street rods driving around with antique plates on them. Since PA dropped the requirement to submit pictures for an in state purchase, nobody is of the wiser.

To most of the government folks, it's just an old car, no clue if it is orginal or has a huge engine in it as a rod.

If they would actually make it easy to get a title for a constructed vehicle then I bet you would see less of this kind of thing. They could use a repro body to go with their modern frame and it would leave the orginal cars to guys like us.

08-08-2014, 07:39 AM	#1
M2M Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Australia/USA/EU/Soviet Russia Posts: 1,105	What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Cost of parts and restoration services rise year by year (look at the price of a SCAT crank now compared to 3 years ago), but the value of cars seems static. In the USA well restored non-brass Ts can be had for < $12K. I've seen a few real nice Model A Coupes and Pick-ups for < $15K. In Australia prices are a bit higher as the supply/demand ratio is perhaps more even and the fact that it costs more to restore a car and buy parts Down Under. Production of some real nice products such as the Model A Burlington Crankshaft and Bill Stipe's Model A shocks have ceased. Chaffin's business is up for sale...would be a big loss to the T hobby to lose Rajo and Ruxstell kits. How have we got here and in which direction are we going? Could there be a surge of interest in Model T and Model A cars like the one in Muscle Cars? Are the clubs doing enough to promote themselves and the hobby? Is it their role to do so? What are your thoughts? __________________ Last edited by M2M; 08-08-2014 at 11:19 AM. Reason: spelling

08-08-2014, 07:41 AM	#2
Franchise_24 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lexington, Ohio Posts: 782	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? We need more younger people to get involved. I know in our club, I'm 35 and my wife is 33 and we are the youngest, with the next closes ages in their 50's. __________________ 1929 Model A Ford Coupe

08-08-2014, 07:47 AM	#3
rocket1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Midland Park,N.J. Posts: 1,108	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? all I know is that some older cars are worth a lot more than others,I should have bought a 1957 Chevy instead of my !957 Studebaker I don't think the young people today are interested in Model A's,never see a younger owner at any meets,we are going the way of the Model T,not many people want one.

08-08-2014, 08:07 AM	#5
bart78 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stephenville tx Posts: 1,019	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I am 35 and like the old cars a bunch. But I am the only one in my area around my age. There is a guy that is in his 50's. But no one likes him. He spends more time telling people what's wrong with their cars. There are a couple older guys up in their 80's. But that's it. Young people around here were brought up on horses and cows not cars. I think the cost of the hobby is going to keep most of them out.

08-08-2014, 08:07 AM	#6
Chris in CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Connecticut Posts: 272	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Hi M2M, You have some very interesting thoughts here, but let me ask you about your handle. On this side of the Pacific Ocean, M2M means "machine to machine" and refers to an emerging technology in which computers speak to other machines (production machines, for instance) and the prod. machines speak back to them in a way that process can be altered while the machines are running. It is an emerging technology. It is also a disruptive technology. Model A Fords are an anachronistic technology. So are pianos and many other complicated mechanical devices that we all have fond memories of from our families and from our childhoods. Strictly speaking, they have very little place in our modern culture. There are numerous difficulties in trying to preserve their presence in our lives, and one of these is the fact that we will spend a great deal more money than they are objectively worth in attempting both to preserve and utilize them. Why do we do it? Memory! Reaching back to a time when life (as we knew it) was stable, predictable, and secure. My first car was a '30 Ford coupe that I courted my wife of 50 years in. Do I want to go back to that place? You bet - in my thoughts at least. And with respect to the Ladies involved in the hobby, it is also a very solid "male" world to live in, this hobby. With other aspects of our culture becoming "gender neutral", it is a place where we have always been able to gender-identify, but this goes back to memory, doesn't it? We could write a book about this, but Fordbarn is not the place for it... Continue on your fabulous road-trip! Chris

08-08-2014, 08:14 AM	#7
bart78 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stephenville tx Posts: 1,019	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I think what keeps a lot of younger people from restoring model A's. Is the attitude of a lot of the guys I have met. There are allways the one or two guys that know everything. And want to tell you all that is wrong even though you have not asked them. When you are at a local small car show. An you are telling another guy his tail lights are wrong. Or his wheel color is wrong. People don't want to hear that. I have known a lot of model a guys to be worse than Corvette guys.

08-08-2014, 08:18 AM	#8
denis4x4 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Durango CO Posts: 1,309	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? The hobby will never go away. Family members will continue to carry the torch, all be it to a lesser degree. The cultural change in youth will have more to do with the future than the price of cars and parts. The simplicity of an A is not all that appealing to a young person who would rather take a laptop and make a Honda go faster with a few strokes on the keyboard. The boards of the national clubs have done a piss poor job of promoting the hobby beyond the current membership to the general populace. The shear numbers of running A's will keep prices in line. __________________ No restorable Model A's were harmed in the building of this truck!

08-08-2014, 08:41 AM	#9
C26Pinelake BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto. Posts: 5,800	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? It used to be that Model A's were plentiful at car shows. I was at a show on the weekend that attracted 450 cars. There were 2 Model A's ! My Cabriolet and an old Tudor that had been hot rodded. There were only 8 cars pre 1950. My car attracted the 60 and above crowd predomininately. The 75 and above group loved it ! In my opinion we are headed in a downward trend which means our cars are not in demand and that means the price is also declining. Model A's today better be bought for enjoyment because they are not a good financial investment. JMHO ! Wayne Last edited by C26Pinelake; 08-08-2014 at 08:59 AM.

08-08-2014, 09:01 AM	#11
fordf1trucknut Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Somerset pa Posts: 98	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I am 33 and now have a running driving 30 coupe and 23 touring car. Plus another a project and a bunch of other 50s cars. I really am a strange....not too many others my age in the area into older cars enough to spend the money and time to run them.

08-08-2014, 09:02 AM	#12
Model A Man Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sarasota Florida Posts: 604	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? In my opinion the cost is what is keeping youngsters from owning model A's. License fees cost of insurance. The cost of getting a motor rebuilt only to have it last a short time ( upward of $4,000.00) when you can buy a complete 327 motor for $1,500.00 that will last for years. The cost of rebuilding the brake system is a thousand plus. when I rebuilt the brakes on my dodge truck, including four new rotors was less than $400.00. Plus there are not many jobs available for the young crowd that will afford them the luxury of owning a model a or t . If better parts and more reliable rebuilds were available I know I would own many more model a's and I would love to own a model t. (I am really hoping that Tod will have at least have solved some of the issues i mentioned by having new affordable model a motors available soon)

08-08-2014, 09:03 AM	#13
newshirt Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 868	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Some hobbies experience a "wave" just like at the football stadium, where you first see a few early-adopters, then a huge swell of mainstreamers, and then finally a smaller number of late-adopters after the swell has passed. You see this in technology, fads, hobbies, politics, and a lot of other places. People "jump on the bandwagon" and ride while it's still cool. Then they all pile off. I feel like a late-adopter. __________________ Ray White

08-08-2014, 09:04 AM	#14
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Hi M2M, Maybe one of the best gauges for monitoring the future of this hobby is to monitor organization membership numbers, (numbers of interested "people" interested), at the local level & national level. It appears that some of the most contributing factors to this hobby's continuance are: 1. The national & local Model T & A Clubs providing technical restoration information, beautiful pictures of restored vehicles & portraying countryside tours with same, accompanied by before & after restoration photos; and, 2. Internet forums where the newly uninformed restorers can acquire friendly restoration technical information & assistance. (This includes when a new person asks what kind of oil to use, be nice, he is new). 3. Parts vendors striving to continually provide more "quality" restoration parts & sheet metal, engine & drive train rebuilding etc. There are also many guys who come to these Forums with interest to read about Model As, & may dream of one day owning a Model A; but never post questions or comments. No doubt some are waiting for retirement when they will have more free "time" to attempt a restoration. In the end, if we compare this hobby to for example, the Chambers of Commerce, the Lions Club, Daughters of the Revolution, any ancient Judeo-Christian Faith from centuries ago, it becomes obvious that absolutely no organization involving "people" ever survived without an organized, ongoing functional "membership drive", which continues to replenish the organization with new members as former members pass on. What is the future of this hobby? Just look in the mirror.

08-08-2014, 09:08 AM	#16
sam03 Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Cross Creek, Florida Posts: 51	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I think the hobby requires patients and money and most young people dont have it. With out a father or grandfather that has the knowledge and the patients/money to help a young person build and maintain an old car its nearly impossible. I know what you mean when someone picks your project apart its not very motivating. We just have to learn not to say it out loud when we dont agree with the way someone is restoring "their" project. I have been to plenty of shows and seen really nice restored Ford and when i look under the hood and see a chevy it hurts. But its not my car so i just keep walking. When i was talking to the guy i bought my new flathead from this weekend i asked him what he was planning on putting it in and he laugh and said you are not going to like my answer. Which caught me off guard. I just laughed and what? He said well i was planning on buying a 53 gmc truck, he said i always though the flatheads where cool but likes gmc truck better. I said well a Ford in a gmc is better than gmc in a Ford. So you never know the reason behind what someone does with the hotrod. I dont think the hobby will go away but i think lots of the knowledge is not being passed along. We need more old guys writing books and on forums so us young guys can learn how its done.

08-08-2014, 09:11 AM	#17
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,520	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Folks need to remember that a Model-A has never been a high-value automobile. That by it's very nature is why most of y'all own one! Ironically, I have been involved in this hobby all of my 50+ years and I can remember this same conversation being held at club meetings back in the 60's. Guess what, each subsequent decade saw Model-A prices higher than the previous decade. I will also tell you that from my professional perspective, there is always a buyer for someone's Model-A. The issue that I have witnessed is the Seller often places a higher value due to their bias that creates the "difficult to sell" scenario. It goes without saying that the market (true Buyers) set the true value. Oh and BTW, exactly why does someone have the mindset that ownership of anything should be a financial investment? The majority of 'things' people own are NOT a financial investment yet they purchase them anyway. I pretty much agree with Denis' thoughts above. As far as Clubs are concerned, I have sat on the board of a national antique car club, and I can speak from my experience that a club must be operated just like a business (---which most are not!!), ...not just with handling the money but with Missions, Advertising/Marketing, Promotions, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, having something of value to offer their customer. The reason club membership is in decline is the perceived value from members & hobbyists. For most clubs, their magazine is their only true reason why the majority (90%+\- ??) of their members join/renew. Therefore it is easy for a (prospective) member to ask what am I getting for my hard earned $$ that I cannot receive elsewhere?? With the age of electronics & internet, finding information is much faster & easier than via a club magazine. As I sit here in a Dr.s office awaiting my turn, it is painfully clear which is the better option at the moment for learning about Model-As. __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

08-08-2014, 09:17 AM	#18
Gunmetal blue2 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Columbia, TN.38401 Posts: 422	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? In the School that I graduated from this year they took away auto shop, machine shop, wood working, electrical and we are known for being the RV Capital of the world. So how are the kids suppost to learn to do any thing if they don't get tot. I am 58 years old. I started working on Model A's when I was 15 years old. I didn't have any body to help me back then.

08-08-2014, 09:26 AM	#19
JohnLaVoy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Rocklin, CA Posts: 779	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I concur with Brent. We need to do a better job of marketing the hobby. I also feel that the focus on the "youth", while nice, isn't the demographic that is looking for a hobby. The late 40 to early 50 group, kids are grown a little extra money and looking for a hobby. But we don't market to them. Our events are closed to members only. The competition for this group is the street rod/hot rod hobby. We should look at how they approach the general public and put on their meets to see where we need to go to compete for this segment of the people looking to purchase a car and get into a hobby.

08-08-2014, 09:30 AM	#20
V4F Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ca. Posts: 2,522	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? im afraid the hobby will die soon do to lack of interest in the old cars that are not hot rods . their cost will take the down soon also . it seems most kids like the turn the key & go generic cars. no personality . not many younger people are interested in their parents / gparents cars . no pass me downs . just estate sales as we die............. JMHO __________________ V4f

08-08-2014, 09:46 AM	#21
bart78 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stephenville tx Posts: 1,019	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I think the younger kids could be gotten into the hobby. I know a lot of Hot Rod clubs will have open house night. One of the main things hold back most younger people. Besides the cost of the car or project. Is they have no place to work on them. People don't have shops in the subdivisions. They have two car garage. That mom or dads car is in. Or it's full of crap. People can't leave it up to just family to carry on with their cars. I'm the only one that wanted my grandfathers cars. My dad four uncles an one aunt did not want them. Or any of their kids.

08-08-2014, 10:09 AM	#22
slackcat Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Galesburg, KS Posts: 87	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I'm 51 and my wife is 50. I always loved classic cars as does my wife and now our son too. Kids today have too many other distractions. Sports is now year round, the internet, i-phones, i-pads,............ cars are old tech and now disposible. We used to cruise main after school and weekends, socialize, not anymore. Times sure have changed. A dwindling hobby.

08-08-2014, 10:17 AM	#23
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,791	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? All very well said............ the antique car hobby is going the way of the churches, for many of the same reasons. Heck, McDonalds can't compete anymore with the likes of Panera, Chipotle or Chick Filet either! A lot of competition out there in this day and age.

08-08-2014, 10:28 AM	#25
NCDave Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 56	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I'm generally an optimist, but I will agree with those who say that our cars are really not great "investments" for later resale or dollar worth; what they are is a current outlet for our enjoyment and appreciation of mechanical things and classic machines. I grew up in the fifties and sixties in a small town in a rural area. There were still several old "tin-shop" mechanics around here, and a couple owned and drove Model A's, and had the skills and experience to work on them. I observed them, and they helped foster my interest but such old-school mechanics are fading away rapidly. I was also an avid reader of hot rod magazines back in that day. However, today is a whole different era in so many ways; younger people don't seem to be very interested in my Model A, even if some have the means to own them and the facilities to store and maintain them----that, as was mentioned above, is also a factor----a place to just work on an old car or local shops that can do the work for them. I won't get into politics here, but there is a sad lack of appreciation of the scope of US history in our current US schools, beyond emphasis on the civil rights struggles of past decades. This lack of emphasis has the consequence of clueless young people when it comes to the contributions of past generations and the way the country was built and the machines that helped build it. As an example, a few years ago, I carried some neighbor's children with me to a local history event at the site of a former Confederate fort; there was cannon-firing and some living history demonstrations. The 13 year old asked me "who won the war?". Go ask a teenager who fought on which side in WWII. I also did some substitute school teaching years back, and I was saddened by the pure lack of quality in the education that I saw in my limited exposure to the school situation then. Other interest of mine is old tractors (John Deere). There is a decent interest in the hobby of restoring old tractors, but it appears limited to rural farm people for the most part who work with machines on a daily basis, and a lot of those tractors are inherited from family. So will the Model A hobby survive? Yes, but with declining interest, as I see it. I also predict that a number will be bought and converted to hot-rods, as they are more road-worthy in modern traffic situations. Enjoy them while we can, and mentor as we can. Maybe I am "Captain Obvious" here. Last edited by NCDave; 08-08-2014 at 10:44 AM. Reason: paragraphs!

08-08-2014, 10:30 AM	#26
BigRix Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 20	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I guess at 49 years old, I just got into the hobby when a friend asked me to work on his 29 Tudor. I dove in head first and am now considering buying one for myself. I am drawn to the simple and robust construction of these cars. I don't see either of my daughters being interested in them but that may change when I take them for a ride. Now for my thoughts on the future of the hobby. I have nothing to go on other than my own anecdotal evidence, but that has never stopped me from forming an opinion before. I am also into collecting Colt Double action revolvers and we have had this discussion many times. My argument has always used the car collecting hobby when discussing the ups and downs of the market. It is my belief that the era of cars or guns that have the most demand are those that we lusted for as teenagers, but can only afford to buy now. My father's generation grew up driving and lusting after Colt Single Action Army's and Model A's. My father in particular always wanted a '36 Cabriolet. He had plenty of Colt SAA's as he competed in fast draw competitions. Those items were very expensive when he was in his 50's and he could not afford them any more. My generation lusts for Colt Pythons and Muscle cars. I've sold off all my Pythons and don't know that I will buy anymore unless I stumble onto a deal. Prices are just too high. I would love to own a '67 fastback mustang but don't know when I will find one at the price I would pay. I think I would prefer to buy a nice Model A for $8,000 to $10,000 and slowly fix anything wrong with it. I doubt I would ever buy one that needs a complete resto. Unless it is a rare model you would be upside down in a hurry. The one thing I have learned with all the hobbies I have had over the years is I have to do the research up front and buy right. I can't afford to buy on emotion and not be able to get my money out of it. To me, Model A's are a bargain. It would allow me an entry into the hobby and to be the first rung in the ladder. My first Colt Trooper cost me $400 and a worked my way up the ladder to my Last Python that I sold for $6500.

08-08-2014, 10:42 AM	#30
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,552	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I will have to agree with almost everything said here. I would like the National clubs to do at least two things: 1) get over their petty differences and combine to make one club that as the goal of getting new members and the cars out there to be seen. And 2) maybe they could hire a PR firm for advise or and ad campaign. What I disagree with is the idea that these cars are expensive. Yes it is expensive to build a motor at about 4K. But that same motor if done right will last 20 years or more. Factoring in a motor lasts about 50k if maintained properly and we put about 1k a year on them....Like anything that needs to be worked on, if it is done right it is expensive but it will last and you wont have to rebuild for years. So there is a trade off-expense vs. length of time it operates. Something young people can learn from. OK, I will get off my soapbox now.... Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

08-08-2014, 10:59 AM	#31
NCDave Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 56	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? FrankWest, I can say if I owned that Python, I could never bring myself to sell it!!! Beautiful!

08-08-2014, 11:29 AM	#32
holdover Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: SW Virginia near the Blue ridge Parkway Posts: 674	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I am 68 and back into Model As after being away for 42 years. I have a ’29 Coupe and a ’29 Pickup both stock not hotrods. I own them for the enjoyment of driving them with my wife and grandbabies, not as an investment. I do all the work myself. My adult son enjoys them but I do not feel he would invest any money in one, I also own a ’65 Mustang fastback 289/271HP 4speed and a ‘67 Mustang 390, 4 speed fastback, those he likes. At a local car show here in June there were 4 stock Model A’s and 2 hotrods, pretty good turnout. There were about 100 cars in the show and a lot of people liked the A’s , especially the kids which is a good thing, plant those seeds early. The bad thing about it though was that the original A owners ranged from late 50s to mid 70s, the hotrod owners in their 30-40s.

08-08-2014, 12:52 PM	#34
Barber31 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 687	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Being new to the model A scene I can't speak for the first question but I can for the second. I feel the model A is and has been having a surge of interest, just not in the fashion most here would like to see. More of ratrod and hotrod style which most here and I'm sure in the big clubs really don't care for. Just yesterday I was at Wally World and had about 4 magazines that were full of model A cars but once again not in its traditional form. Being that I do love both restored and custom A's I feel as long as someone is saving them in any fashion, it's a good thing.

08-08-2014, 01:46 PM	#35
Lona Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Gloucester, Va Posts: 464	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? There will be no future for our hobby if the younger generations don't have an interest in our cars. Each generation tends to be interested in the cars they grew up with or the cars of their parents generation because they are familiar with them. With prices of our cars slowly dropping and an abundance of parts, this presents an opportunity for the younger generations to get into a less expensive end of the car hobby. However, we need to find ways to get them interested as others have said. At the car shows we attend, almost all exhibitors have "don't touch" signs on their cars. We have no signs on ours and, in fact, encourage everyone, especially kids, to not only touch but to sit in them with parental supervision. Next show we will have a sign that says "please feel free to touch". It's one way we can get kids interested in our cars but more important, gives us an opportunity to chat with the parents who are indeed at the age where they might just catch the vintage car bug from us. Glen __________________ '31 Model A Deluxe Roadster '31 Chrysler Model 70 Sedan '88 Pontiac Fiero GT '36 Auburn Boattail Speedster replica

08-08-2014, 02:19 PM	#37
Barber31 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 687	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Also one of the big obstacles I see is the age difference. Almost all the A owners I see online, on youtube or tv have had " long relationships with Father Time ". I personally would love to spend time with this age group as there is much to learn from them but being that I'm 30 and my wife is 27, I don't think there's much that they could learn from us. Except maybe about Facebook or new Bluetooth gadgets. The average young person is not gonna want to go out of his way to join a club that everybody ignores him.

08-08-2014, 02:38 PM	#38
Brother Hesekiel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: San Buenaventura, Calif. Posts: 362	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Aged almost 57 right now, I've been a car guy all of my life, and was lucky enough -- starting in the mid-'80s, but getting serious in 1999 when the Internet took off -- to turn my hobby into my business. These days, we sell about 150 classic cars per year, the majority of them classic Porsche 911s, and the majority of those to the olde World. I've owned numerous cars over the years and have driven pretty much everything I ever wanted to drive. Had I "invested" my disposable "hobby" money in a Porsche at any time in the past, I'd be looking at a serious monetary gain today. Thing is, I don't like Porsches very much, nor do I like Muscle Cars or most of the British variety. They are too "normal" for my taste, as is about every other car. It's like you work in a bakery and taste sweets all day, every day, at some point you just don't want those anymore. You want something else. History confirms that people buy cars as a hobby that they lusted for as youngsters, when they couldn't afford them. That's why 1960s to 1980s Porsches are hot right now: the generation X folks always thought they'd be cool to own, being like Steve Mc Queen, but they simply didn't have the financial means to do so. Today they do. The folks who fondly remember the Model A being a fixture on public roads, as it was during the time of the Waltons, are in their 60s, 70s, and 80s now. The A, albeit a much more modern and usable car than the Model T (which I also own), will follow the T into obscurity. It will be a strange thing to look at, but almost no generation Y and Z member will want to buy one. One of the reasons I own a Model A Roadster is that I was able to afford one that needed really nothing to be enjoyed. I paid $14,5K for mine, and I drive it every weekend. I take it home on Friday, and drive it like my "normal" car 'til Monday morning, when I take it back and switch it with my '62 Volvo, which is my Monday-to-Friday everyday classic. Had the price for my car been $30K, I would not have been able to justify the purchase. Not because I don't have the money, but because I don't own any personal car that expensive, and I own 9 personal vehicles, and I drive 'em all. No trailer queens in my garage. If you go on vacation, you spend thousands of dollars on quality time away from the daily grind. For me, every time I jump in my A and drive it, even to work, I'm still on vacation. If I do the same in my "modern" car, I'm part of the rat race. So what price to you put on vacation time? For me, it doesn't matter if my A will bring the same $14,5K when I sell it 20 years from now, or $8,5K, or $18,5K. Whatever the presumed loss will be, I chalk it up as the price of enjoyment. I do make money, and I invest money in my retirement fund, so I'm not ignorant of the need to save for retirement, but my toys are not investments. Sure, it would be nice if my A is worth twice what I paid for it when I'm ready to retire, but it's just a side-effect, not a prerequisite for choosing what I like. Thus, I too feel that the Model A hobby will continue to decline, and any presumed increase in prices will merely offset the inflation. More cars will become available, less buyers will be there to sweep 'em up. Many of those will become hot rods, as those things simply apply to a younger generation. Like typewriters, old cameras, tube radios, and other mechanical devices, the Model A will become less of a common sight year after year after year. But it's not all bad, as declining prices also mean that more potential buyers can afford such a car. Another thread is the legislator. In Europe we already have inner city zones where cars without a certain emission certification are no longer allowed. Eventually this will reach our shores. Once that happens, the old car hobby will take another hit. Now add to this the aforementioned fact that today's kids don't have the same connection to cars that we have, and the perfect storm is coming to our shores. Hopefully that will happen after I'm out of the picture. __________________

08-08-2014, 02:53 PM	#39
waxhead Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: West Australia Posts: 346	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Interesting to read all of these comments and see responses from so many people in their 30's. I also am still in my 30's, if only just, so I think that not all hope is lost just yet. It seems to be that people in their 30's and 40's are at an age where they may have a disposable income that can afford themselves a "toy" to drive on weekends. Although lowered, my car is still powered by an original engine and is pretty much stock, with the exception of a few go-fast engine parts. A lot of the younger generation around here are very interested in my car, and always ask questions about it, so there is some interest. Most are just at a stage in their life where they cannot afford a car just for fun. The upside is, if prices fall, I will be able to add some more A's to my collection at a reasonable price.

08-08-2014, 06:14 PM	#43
bambooboy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: joppa maryland Posts: 209	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I've been in the hobby 10 months&on ford barn 10 months(daily)I agree with most on younger generation.without getting political,we have to realize youngsters are paying huge taxes.in n.y. city you can pay up to 55% in taxes.this hobby should do fine at least another 20 years(maybe lower prices) with the 50,60&70 yr olds.got my almost finished bargain at age 70.seems almost daily I see (newbee here or got my 1st A asking a question or showing us pics.is this the normal thru the years or were there many more in the past? tom

08-08-2014, 10:46 PM	#45
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? I think it looks great. Better parts are being made. We have parts available equal to or exceeding any other car out there. I've read about the end of the Model a hobby for years now but we still read about cars being restored after being found all the time. With little of no modifications they can handle all the roads but highways with ease and for long duration's. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

08-09-2014, 08:24 AM	#47
Great Lakes Greg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,369	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Great comments. Somebody mentioned the target group should be the 40-60 year olds, not teenagers. Agreed. Teens and early-mid twenties are broke, consumed with their hormones, and live in apartments. It is a poor stage in life to try to get anybody to buy an impractical car.

08-09-2014, 02:53 PM	#48
BlueSunoco Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Windy City Posts: 937	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? And on another note.......... just spoke to my brother in SoCal about an hour ago, he's into cars too but of the muscle car persuasion. We were talking about the future of the hobby, and he says that even cars in the muscle car era are going to die off, that the interest just isn't there anymore. The cars are too expensive and the kids only want to play video games on their smart phones, etc. just like we've discussed here. He said 'Just stand on any corner in Southern California today and watch the traffic. EVERY other car is a Prius. You don't see the 60's early 70's cars anymore like you used to 15 years ago.' He also was over at Santa Margarita Ford this week talking to a good friend who sells new cars. He told my brother that 'We can't keep the plug in Hybrid Fusions on the lot, they sell as fast as they get unloaded especially to the young crowd. They think by doing that they are going 'Green' and turn their noses up at other models we have!' California always sets the trend, that the rest of the nation follows. Not always bad, they were first in the 60's w/ the braless look thing but that is another story

08-09-2014, 03:06 PM	#49
Ed in Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cty., ME or Flagler Cty., FL Posts: 1,106	Re: What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies? Sometimes we must be careful what we wish for. If we over market the hobby, more people will be looking for Model As increasing the prices. I say keep it affordable and help the new comers that have the questions. It is a hobby, not an investment not a profitable venture. You don't have to have 30 years of experience with Model As to keep them running. As for getting new people into the hobby, take them for a ride. Let them look down that hood and see those two shinny head lamps moving down the road! It is what got me hooked! Ed