Thermostat

[cars56]

Engine running at 140 degress, no thermostate, nyc climate.
Is that 2 cold? Is a thermostat recommended? Which one?
Thanks all

[CWPASADENA]

I run a thermostat. The engine warms up faster and runs more consistently, especially in the cold wether. 140 is OK but I would like to see the water temp to be up around 160 Deg. I feel the engine runs a little better.

I think I bought my thermostat from Bratton's. Bert's also has thermostats as well as other suppliers.

This is JUST my opinion,

Chris

[kenparker]

140 degrees is too cold for efficient running. The engine will run a lot better at 160 or even 170. A thermostat will make the engine warm up faster and keep it at that constant temperature.. I run a 160 in all mi cars and will change to a 170 in the S/W in the next couple days.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Allow me to echo what Chris said as good advice.

Something else though, ...in stock configuration back in the day, driver's understood how to 'tune' a Model A engine as they were driving. The driver would lean the carburetor's GAV to raise temps. Also, slight retarding the spark timing often times will raise the engine temps. In really cold temps, driver's installed Winterfronts (or home-made ones) to limit airflow through the radiator. I often find that many modern Model A driver's tend to struggle mastering this concept along with shifting smoothly by double-clutching.

.

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Allow me to echo what Chris said as good advice.

In really cold temps, driver's installed Winterfronts (or home-made ones) to limit airflow through the radiator.

While driving my '30 Tudor to college in the late '50s in Missouri, I had a "Winterfront". It consisted of a piece of cardboard that covered about half of the radiator.

Chris

[Herb Concord Ca]

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In my opinion, yes 140 is too cold, and yes you need a thermostat.
Check out the unit sold by Vintage Precision. I have one on my town sedan. www.vintageprecision.com
Regards,
herb

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Remember, the engine is a water heater and the radiator is a water cooler, and you need a thermostat to coordinate the two.
"THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Remember, the engine is a water heater and the radiator is a water cooler, and you need a thermostat to coordinate the two.

Herb/Bill, naturally I am just "funnin' with y'all", ......but how do you suppose ALL of these Model A engines survived ALL of these years without that "needed thermostat"?

.

[John LaVoy]

Several years ago we did a report on using a thermostat on a Model A in the Model A Times. In the research we found that modern fuel needs the engine to be at 160 degrees for proper burning.

[RonC]

Just put a piece of cardboard over half the radiator. A thermostat is not needed on a stock Model A engine.

[Special Coupe Frank]

A Thermostat helps your engine run better and last longer, especially in cold climates and short-trip driving.

140* is too cold; the oil doesn't get hot enough to vaporize ("boil-off") condensation or fuel mixture that gets past the rings.

180* or 190* is considered ideal for most engines made since the advent of pressurized cooling systems, but 160* is a decent compromise for a Model A...

I run a 160* stat in the upper hose of the '28 in my avatar... temp stays between 160 & 170.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by John LaVoy

Several years ago we did a report on using a thermostat on a Model A in the Model A Times. In the research we found that modern fuel needs the engine to be at 160 degrees for proper burning.

And John, how was this deduced? Through actual dyno testing with an A engine used to obtain accurate data? Fuels used back then were very low in octane and often times impure from handling.

I guess I am being troubled by the word "needs" as if it were to imply that if this widget is not used, then the engine will not operate correctly.

/

[jrelliott]

I installed a 160 degree thermostat in my '28 and it seems to warm up quicker and runs a lot smoother. Not scientific, but just an observation.

[V4F]

i run a 160* . it works well to warm the motor , but my system is all new so it doesnt go over 160* . im very happy with it . when i was in the high desert (-20*) i used cardboard to block the radiator to get it to warm up . ................ steve

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Herb/Bill, naturally I am just "funnin' with y'all", ......but how do you suppose ALL of these Model A engines survived ALL of these years without that "needed thermostat"?

.

Good question Brent, but I think at the time the Model A was built, automotive engineers were just beginning to understand the issues or crankcase dilution / peak thermal efficiency, etc...

For heaven's sake, the Model A didn't even have a "road-draft tube" to ventilate the crankcase....

By 1940, just about every American car and truck had "road-draft tubes" and thermostats... and as early as 1941, some makers were even experimenting with "postive crankcase ventilation" (my '41 De Soto has it).

An excellent book that should be on every car enthusiast's / mechanics shelf is:

"Drive it Forever!", by Robert Sikorsky, SAE.

My copy (early 1980's) was a paper-back with a red '57 Mercury on the cover...

Lots of good info about driving habits, thermostats, oils, etc.


Sure, the Model A, Model T, and many other engines have survived to the present day w/o all this modern stuff, but some of these "gadgets" will help our vintage engines run better / last longer between rebuilds...

Might not make much difference to the show car that only drives bewteen the garage / trailer / show field and back, but for driver vehicles, it can make a significant difference...

Just my moderately humble opinion...

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Point taken Frank but again, I refer many back to post #4 above. Oil dilution from excessive, unburned gasoline is easily cured with proper operation of the Carburetor and the GAV. Maybe y'all are correct that because proper operation is unknown by many Model A driver's today, installing a thermostat is a cure, --but is it necessary ...or needed? If so, then is installing a Mitchell synchro-ed transmission "needed" for city driving? Is halogen bulbs "needed" for safe driving?? Are 16" wheels needed for safe steering?? How about Hydraulic Brakes, --are they needed to have a safe and reliable braking system?? I think all of these is why I am questioning the verbiage "needed". And so we are clear, I am not saying just for show cars, ...I am saying 'drivers' like most people here use their car.

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Herb/Bill, naturally I am just "funnin' with y'all", ......but how do you suppose ALL of these Model A engines survived ALL of these years without that "needed thermostat"?

.

I have a simple answer for this.

Modern engines run 200,300 even 400,000 miles without a rebuild.

There are probably three main reasons for this.

1: oil quality.
2: fuel delivery.
3: 195F thermostats.

Running leaner means less fuel rinsing oil off of cylinders as well as less contamination to the oil.

Thermostats allow engines to run at around 200-220F which keeps fuel from condensation on cylinder walls and again, rinsing oil off of them.

Of course, there are probably other reasons modern engines last 200K without a sweat but I believe the ones I listed are the main ones.

Yes, A model "A" engine works without a T-stat, but it works better with one. So I guess in the end Brent you are right, it doesn't "need" one

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Point taken Frank but again, I refer many back to post #4 above. Oil dilution from excessive, unburned gasoline is easily cured with proper operation of the Carburetor and the GAV. Maybe y'all are correct that because proper operation is unknown by many Model A driver's today, installing a thermostat is a cure, --but is it necessary ...or needed? If so, then is installing a Mitchell synchro-ed transmission "needed" for city driving? Is halogen bulbs "needed" for safe driving?? Are 16" wheels needed for safe steering?? How about Hydraulic Brakes, --are they needed to have a safe and reliable braking system?? I think all of these is why I am questioning the verbiage "needed". And so we are clear, I am not saying just for show cars, ...I am saying 'drivers' like most people here use their car.

Brent, you have gotten your self into a nonsensical defence mode. I would not run a T, A, or B., with out a 180, or 190 thermostat. The engine needs a normal operating Temp. to run efficiently and for proper vaporization of the fuel. Smoother running, better milage, less oil dilution. In Iowa, we need heaters in our cars if you drive, before the salt is added to the the road. With out a thermostat, you would get more heat out of a chicken. If you want the best, for your engine, its needed. Herm.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Can't stress strongly enough the value of the information in this book... I have no connection to the author or the publisher, and do not stand to gain any benefit from encouraging people to obtain and read a copy (many times!)... ( other than contributing to an elightened hobby?)

It made me think quite a bit differently about how vehicles operate, and what can lead them to an early death...
and much of this info is applicable to ANY internal combustion-powered vehicle, whether it's from 1910 or 2010...

Check it out....

http://www.amazon.com/Drive-Forever-...der_0965757706

Will be some of the best money you'll ever spend on automotive reading material !

[HoarseWhisperer]

so......160 degree = good; 180 degree = better???

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by HoarseWhisperer

so......160 degree = good; 180 degree = better???

180 = better 195 = even better providing you don't overheat.

I believe many "A"'s have a tendency to overheat running 180F thermostats so in that case no, its not better .

I would assume a 180F stat in an "A" with a good radiator running antifreeze would work but I have no personal experience with such.

I wouldn't consider running a 195F stat in anything other then a pressurized system running antifreeze.

[Phil Brown]

Just put a 160 deg. stat in the truck last month , big differance in the way it runs.
I know there are other way's to get heat in the motor (retarded spark,a/f mixture etc.) but I'll just let the thermostat sit there and do it's thing all by itself , that way I can set the spark and mixture to optimize a fully warmed up motorand not set to try and keep heat in the motor
just my $0.02 Phil

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Herb Concord Ca

...Check out the unit sold by Vintage Precision... www.vintageprecision.com

This looks like a nifty little accessory. I'll let y'all know what I think of it when mine gets here.

[billwill]

Originally Posted by cars56

Engine running at 140 degress, no thermostate, nyc climate.
Is that 2 cold? Is a thermostat recommended? Which one?
Thanks all

at least160oz.

[John LaVoy]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

And John, how was this deduced? Through actual dyno testing with an A engine used to obtain accurate data? Fuels used back then were very low in octane and often times impure from handling.

I guess I am being troubled by the word "needs" as if it were to imply that if this widget is not used, then the engine will not operate correctly.

/

Brent,

This was information obtained from a petroleum chemist I think we went to Chevron for this information. According to the report from them an engine needs to operate above 160 degrees for the fuel to burn correctly.

John

[AL in NY]

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I did a lot a research on thermostats and the 180 stat is the most recommended for best engine performance. But, to run that stat in a Model A you need to be sure the radiator is in tip-top shape. I had mine checked out and it turned out it needed to be re-cored. Also, to keep the engine from developing local hot spots, a thermostat by-pass tube should be installed. I'm going to be running the vintage precision stat housing and routing a 3/8" SS tube from that housing to the engine hose inlet. Haven't got everything back together, but it should be an excellent setup. Just my two cents worth on the subject.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

...I'm going to be running the vintage precision stat housing and routing a 3/8" SS tube from that housing to the engine hose inlet....

So you will be re-injecting hot (un-cooled) water back into the engine?

[HoarseWhisperer]

Any performance issues with the common A-8270 Thermostats that slip into the upper rad hose, and do not alter the authentic appearance?

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by CarlG

So you will be re-injecting hot (un-cooled) water back into the engine?

Pretty much any modern engine does this. There are of course variations of it such as many Chevy smallblocks which often used the heater loop to perform the same function.

It allows water to keep circulating through the block even with a closed thermostat which allows more even temperature throughout the engine.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by MrTube

Pretty much any modern engine does this. There are of course variations of it such as many Chevy smallblocks which often used the heater loop to perform the same function.

It allows water to keep circulating through the block even with a closed thermostat which allows more even temperature throughout the engine.

right you are

[1931 flamingo]

AL in NY: I think all of us would like to see pics when you're done. Also i don't understand the logic. The t/stat has a few holes to allow water to pass thru prior to reaching operating temp and then t/stat opens, so why the by-pass?
paul in CT By the way i am running a t/stat.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Flamingo,

The Model A in-hose retrofit stat has one of more small by-pass holes to allow water to circulate while the stat is closed. There is no other way for water to circulate in a stock Model A.

Without those bypass holes ( or a bypass loop or heater ), the water in the block would be stagnant, and could conceivably boil before the water in the upper hose /stat would become warm enough to open the stat.

There's also a good chance of an air-pocket forming in the block / head when the system is filled.

When automakers began incorporating integral thermostats that restricted / diverted the coolant flow (mid 1930's), they incorporated by-pass circuits, initially as external plumbing, and later cast into the block / head itself.

A good example of this would be the cooling system in the Chrysler Corporation flat-head sixes: the 1935-1950 version had an external by-pass tube between the thermostat housing and the back of the water-pump. When the stat was closed, all coolant circulated through the bypass and back through the block. As the stat opened, the bypass ports gradually closed-off as the radiator port opened, so at full open, ALL coolant went through the radiator.
In 1950, this was simplifed to a water-pump / block casting with an internal bypass port, and the complex two-stage thermostat & housing were replaced with the conventional "poppet"-type stat we've been used to for the last 60 years.

Generally speaking, 180* F was considered "ideal" for the first generation of pressurized cooling systems; given the "hot-tempered" nature of certain model A's, I'd start-out with a 160* stat and monitor the temperature with a good dash gauge, then see about moving-up to a 180* stat, if the vehicle will tolerate it.

I will have to wait until summer to see how my car behaves with the 160* stat.

Before I put a stat in (October), it would take my car 1/2-hour / 20 miles of driving before the engine would even reach 140*...

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

I just placed an order for the book. Looks like it could be very interesting. Thanks. $7.99 plus $4 S&H on Amazon

I think you'll find it good reading and fairly helpful....

I might order a newer edition, as mine seems to have gone missing ( probably loaned it out...)

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

AL in NY:
I think all of us would like to see pics when you're done. Also i don't understand the logic. The t/stat has a few holes to allow water to pass thru prior to reaching operating temp and then t/stat opens, so why the by-pass?
paul in CT By the way i am running a t/stat.

With no 'stat in place, an A heats evenly and very slow. From an engineering standpoint you want even heating, but a fast rise to an elevated constant running temperature. Ideally a thermostat should have only one, very tiny hole to prevent air entrapment around the sensor element and it should pass no coolant while fully closed.

Since the A has no bypass, adding a stat designed to pass air but not some water when closed will cause the water to be stopped, causing boiling at localized internal hot spots while the bottom of the cylinder water jackets stay relatively cool. The result is an engine that overheats on the top end and in the back by #4 and then 'burps' when the t'stat opens, sometimes through several continuous cycles. Opening that t'stat vent hole, or drilling extras, like many A'ers do, simply allows some water circulation to even out the warm-up. HOWEVER, the water is from the cold radiator and back into the still cool engine, greatly extending the warm-up time.

A bypass from the water area circulating by the t'stat sensor to the back of the engine (bypassing the radiator) makes for a quick, even warmup with no temperature overspikes or burps. Some modern car 'stats are double valved, the bypass closes as the t'stat opens.

I've toyed with the idea myself, but I believe the ideal return point would be the lower portion of the water jacket behind #4, facing the firewall. The side inlet is a compromise, and at low flow rates the water in the far back will remain somewhat stagnated. In any case, a 3/8 SS tube would probably be ideal.

[johnbuckley]

Hey guys, just how accurate are all these thermometers and thermostats you're using?

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by johnbuckley

Hey guys, just how accurate are all these thermometers and thermostats you're using?

I don't think I saw mention of "thermometer" in this string, but if implied, I think consistency is more of an issue than accuracy. The engine will not care if it is really at the face value of the t'stat rating or actually several degrees different.

I've tested loads of stats in water baths along with a N.I.S. traceable thermometer of known, calibrated accuracy tolerances, and can say this: Modern car stats all start to open within +,- 5*F of their rating. (unless worn out/defective)

Car stats work based on the fusion range of various mixes of wax. That's what is in the brass sensor element, pushing a steel pin up as it expands. The manufacturer, by modifying the wax composition, can control both the initial opening temperature (initial fusion point of the wax) and the range to full open (plastic range in a non-eutectic wax mix).

[MrTube]

I agree with MikeK.

Its not about accuracy. Modern cars don't start the fans until 215-220F and won't kick them into high mode until 225-230F. The engines don't really care if the block is at 200F or 230F. This is why any modern car with electric fans will sit idling with the engine at 215F+ even tho the thermostat is wide open.

As many have said before, the temperatures I listed are for pressurized systems running antifreeze, I simply gave them as an example.

I think the moral is keep your engine above 160F but below the point it overheats and all will be much better.


BTW MikeK, I never knew thats how the thermostats worked, thanks for the info!

[Special Coupe Frank]

The older stats used a brass accordion bellows charged with an alcohol - ether mix; these usually failed due to metal fatigue of the bellows...

[kp]

To each his own.Since i installed a thermostat(160) along with a heat guage with new radiator core no more heat problem,no guessing and wondering whats happening here. It gets plenty hot here in the summer and now it runs a cool 160 .Now need ac for me. I Like my car.

[Special Coupe Frank]

I feel more comfortable driving my A now that I have a temp gauge on-board...

It's an inexpensive Auto-Meter modern unit, set-up with a tapping in the outlet neck, and the under-dash gauge bracket that came with it clamped on the fuel line next to the tank-valve (piece of rubber tubing around the metal line for cushion).

Have to crane my neck a little to read the gauge, but not bad for a cheap "parts-on-hand" project. Some day when I have mad-money, I'll step-up to a nice Rex-a-Co or Moto-meter in-dash gauge.

Next step will be a tapped inlet neck and a bypass hose.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

I just placed an order for the book. Looks like it could be very interesting. Thanks. $7.99 plus $4 S&H on Amazon

Amazon has them with prices all over the board: starting at $0.01 all the way up to $40.00 + 3.99 for shipping. How thoes places sell them for a penny is unbelievable, but my wife has bought quite a few penny books on Amazon.

[Special Coupe Frank]

I forget where I bought my copy, 20 -odd years ago... might actually have been from a local book-seller... pretty sure the brand-new paperback was less than $15 at the time...

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Brent, you have gotten your self into a nonsensical defence mode. I would not run a T, A, or B., with out a 180, or 190 thermostat. The engine needs a normal operating Temp. to run efficiently and for proper vaporization of the fuel. Smoother running, better milage, less oil dilution. In Iowa, we need heaters in our cars if you drive, before the salt is added to the the road. With out a thermostat, you would get more heat out of a chicken. If you want the best, for your engine, its needed. Herm.

Herm,
Yes, 'commonsensical'...is not common, sometimes!
If Ford had not been so 'frugal', he would have put tstats as well as hydraulics as well as heaters as well as..well you get the idea. In my opinion, he made the volkswagen(workers car) of his time and a darn good one at that!
Did he, and his engineers, know about engine wear/tear due to sludge, etc ...what do you think! And, what was the oil change recommended frequency..and why so often! Geeze, he only charged pocket change(in todays money)so why build a duzyberg when not necessary then.
So when these antique cars come into our possession...for a mere pittance of a few K for a basket case...we know of what should be done if we want to make them safer/last longer, after putting in a lot more KKKs, i.e.- tstats, modern lubricants , 5 speeds, on/on/on!
Yup, you can lead a donk to knowledge...but 'stats are still your choice??.

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Herm,
Yes, 'commonsensical'...is not common, sometimes!
If Ford had not been so 'frugal', he would have put tstats as well as hydraulics as well as heaters as well as..well you get the idea. In my opinion, he made the volkswagen(workers car) of his time and a darn good one at that!
Did he, and his engineers, know about engine wear/tear due to sludge, etc ...what do you think! And, what was the oil change recommended frequency..and why so often! Geeze, he only charged pocket change(in todays money)so why build a duzyberg when not necessary then.
So when these antique cars come into our possession...for a mere pittance of a few K for a basket case...we know of what should be done if we want to make them safer/last longer, after putting in a lot more KKKs, i.e.- tstats, modern lubricants , 5 speeds, on/on/on!
Yup, you can lead a donk to knowledge...but 'stats are still your choice??.

Did he or his engineers know? Maybe not, otherwise why would slightly later designs include t-stats.

Did any 1920s cars have t-stats?

I also don't consider sliding in a t-stat that is 100% hidden and doesn't really change how the car works the same as putting a 5 speed in or hydraulic brakes. Both of these completely change the vehicle.

Using a t-stat and multi-weight detergent oil allow the engine to behave normal in cooler weather and last significantly longer yet you are still by all means driving an "A".

Thats my opinion anyway.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Herm,
Yes, 'commonsensical'...is not common, sometimes!
If Ford had not been so 'frugal', he would have put tstats as well as hydraulics as well as heaters as well as..well you get the idea. In my opinion, he made the volkswagen(workers car) of his time and a darn good one at that!
Did he, and his engineers, know about engine wear/tear due to sludge, etc ...what do you think! And, what was the oil change recommended frequency..and why so often! Geeze, he only charged pocket change(in todays money)so why build a duzyberg when not necessary then.
So when these antique cars come into our possession...for a mere pittance of a few K for a basket case...we know of what should be done if we want to make them safer/last longer, after putting in a lot more KKKs, i.e.- tstats, modern lubricants , 5 speeds, on/on/on!
Yup, you can lead a donk to knowledge...but 'stats are still your choice??.

So Mr. Hardtimes, what was your point, I missed it. Herm.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

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Originally Posted by MrTube

Did he or his engineers know? Maybe not, otherwise why would slightly later designs include t-stats.

Did any 1920s cars have t-stats?

I also don't consider sliding in a t-stat that is 100% hidden and doesn't really change how the car works the same as putting a 5 speed in or hydraulic brakes. Both of these completely change the vehicle.

Using a t-stat and multi-weight detergent oil allow the engine to behave normal in cooler weather and last significantly longer yet you are still by all means driving an "A".

Thats my opinion anyway.

What makes you think Mr. Tube, that sliding in a thermostat doesn't change how the car works, you have already started with the wrong premises, that a thermostat is a waste of your 5.00 bucks. It dosn't sound like you two boys have any experience in the thermostat department, only an opinion with the root source being the dollar bill. Herm.

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

What makes you think Mr. Tube, that sliding in a thermostat doesn't change how the car works, you have already started with the wrong premises, that a thermostat is a wast of your 5.00 bucks. It dosn't sound like eather one of you have any experience in that department, only an opinion with the root source being the dollar bill. Herm.

Herm, I'm afraid you have me confused.

I am for thermostats and never said they were a waste of money?

My comment said the thermostat will allow the car to behave normal during cold weather which I believe to be a true statement. The car should behave the same on a 20F day or a 90F day.

Adding a downdraft carb, a 5 speed trans or even a super charger completely changes the way the engine behaves.

Perhaps I'm just explaining my self poorly.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by MrTube

Herm, I'm afraid you have me confused.

I am for thermostats and never said they were a waste of money?

My comment said the thermostat will allow the car to behave normal during cold weather which I believe to be a true statement. The car should behave the same on a 20F day or a 90F day.

Adding a downdraft carb, a 5 speed trans or even a super charger completely changes the way the engine behaves.

Perhaps I'm just explaining my self poorly.

Excuse me all to H@#$ Mr. Tube, I have got to get off that Hemp. Herm.

[Special Coupe Frank]

In the 1928 - 1931 era, I do not know of any cars / trucks that emplyed water-throttling thermostats... to the best of my knowledge, they were still using Sylphon- shutter thermostats that restricted airflow through the radiator.

This would include Cadillac, Packard, Lincoln, Duesenberg, Hudson, Pierce, and some others. Packard continued to use the shutter system through 1939 on some models.

Not quite as efficient for quick warm-up, but a step in the right direction.

The Pines Winterfront and Allen Shutterfront were two of the more popular aftermarket shutter-fronts in the '20s....

Have never seen one on an A though...

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

So Mr. Hardtimes, what was your point, I missed it. Herm.

Herm,
"The point"....tstats are good to help ensure that a good engine runs better and should last longer....yes/no?!

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

...
The Pines Winterfront and Allen Shutterfront were two of the more popular aftermarket shutter-fronts in the '20s....

Have never seen one on an A though...

I have a Globe Winterfront that I intend on putting on my '31 PU. Gotta get some other stuff done first though. I'll have to post a picture after I get it on.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

...to keep the engine from developing local hot spots, a thermostat by-pass tube should be installed. I'm going to be running the vintage precision stat housing and routing a 3/8" SS tube from that housing to the engine hose inlet...

Do you have a picture of your installation?

[AL in NY]

CarlG, I haven't gotten my engine back together. I'll post a photo when I do. My original thought was to run a 3/8" SS line from the Vintage Precision thermostat housing to the water inlet hose fitting on the left side of the block. But after reading MikeK's post, I'm rethinking that. I may decide to route the bypass tube to an area behind #4 cylinder, either on the rear left corner of the water jacket or directly behind #4 cylinder on the back of the block. I have to see what conflicts I may have there with the throttle linkage. I'll post a picture when it's installed.

[steve s]

Another wrinkle: I read somewhere years ago that iron heads run better at 160 and aluminum heads run better at 180. Wish I could remember where I read that.

Steve

[Special Coupe Frank]

A historical note: the 160* F point was arrived at as the maximum temperature you could run the coolant at before you started boiling-off the alcohol-based antifreezing solution.

Once ethylene-glycol "permanent" antifreezes arrived (late 1920's - early 1930's), it was found that the thermostat could be stepped-up to 180* F.

Alcohol-based antifreezes stayed around through the '50s and perhaps into the 1960's, and for years you could usually buy a choice of thermostat temps depending on which type of anti-freeze your were using: 160 for Alcohol, 180-190 for Prestone, Xerex, etc.

[marc hildebrant]

When I had the Model A out about three weeks ago, I used a piece of cardboard to restrict the air into the radiator. The cardboard fit real nice between the stone gaurd and the radiator.

The car ran around 160 F in city type driving...the engine ran nice with the outside temp around 20 F.

Marc

[Houston Rodder]

I think this may be a problem for you, Yankees.

[1931 flamingo]

marc: that cardboard is not going to work in july. JMO
Paul in CT

[Seth Swoboda]

Brent, I believe that most Model A owners/drivers do not know the proper operation of the GAV and spark retard/advance. I will admit that I very rarely adjust the GAV. Could you explain to me how to use the spark retard/advance and how to adjust the GAV while driving the Model A? I know the start up procedure but when I am on the road I only ever adjust the spark advance.

[HoarseWhisperer]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

Brent, I believe that most Model A owners/drivers do not know the proper operation of the GAV and spark retard/advance. I will admit that I very rarely adjust the GAV. Could you explain to me how to use the spark retard/advance and how to adjust the GAV while driving the Model A? I know the start up procedure but when I am on the road I only ever adjust the spark advance.

Seth, "proper operation" of the GAV and spark is covered in the standard Model A Ford operator's manual.

I'm thinking most Model A owners carry this manual, no?

[RonC]

You should be adjusting your spark lever according to engine load and speed. Advance for high speed, retard for loading such as climbing hills or at idle speeds. If your car is properly timed there is a noticeable difference.

The GAV valve is adjusted according to engine temperature and engine speed.

Operation of the spark and GAV is detailed in the owners manual

[Special Coupe Frank]

"Standard" instruction on the GAV is to close it fully, then open 1/2 to 1 full turn for starting from dead-cold, then to close it to 1/4 turn from closed once the engine is warm.

With my unrestored 84,000 engine, in cold weather I find I have to have the GAV open about 2 turns for the first couple miles, then can close it down to about 1/2 turn open.

In the summer, I can run it 1/4 turn open.

SC Frank

[Milton]

"With out a thermostat, you would get more heat out of a chicken."

Herm,
I just lost my coffee all over my monitor just by imagining your statement.

[Jordan]

I don't run a thermostat, and my car runs fine. Been thinking of putting one in there anyways to help keep it at 160* in the winter. My A runs better at 160* than it does at 180* even though most people say theirs run better at 180*. I have a centrifugally advanced distributor and a modern carb, so i dont have the ability to adjust the GAV or spark. But that's ok with me considering i like how these two modifications make the car run better in MY opinion. So i'm not going to change them to make the engine warm up faster. For now, i just stick the cardboard in front of the radiator.