Thermostat

[cars56]

Engine running at 140 degress, no thermostate, nyc climate.
Is that 2 cold? Is a thermostat recommended? Which one?
Thanks all

[CWPASADENA]

I run a thermostat. The engine warms up faster and runs more consistently, especially in the cold wether. 140 is OK but I would like to see the water temp to be up around 160 Deg. I feel the engine runs a little better.

I think I bought my thermostat from Bratton's. Bert's also has thermostats as well as other suppliers.

This is JUST my opinion,

Chris

[kenparker]

140 degrees is too cold for efficient running. The engine will run a lot better at 160 or even 170. A thermostat will make the engine warm up faster and keep it at that constant temperature.. I run a 160 in all mi cars and will change to a 170 in the S/W in the next couple days.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Allow me to echo what Chris said as good advice.

Something else though, ...in stock configuration back in the day, driver's understood how to 'tune' a Model A engine as they were driving. The driver would lean the carburetor's GAV to raise temps. Also, slight retarding the spark timing often times will raise the engine temps. In really cold temps, driver's installed Winterfronts (or home-made ones) to limit airflow through the radiator. I often find that many modern Model A driver's tend to struggle mastering this concept along with shifting smoothly by double-clutching.

.

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Allow me to echo what Chris said as good advice.

In really cold temps, driver's installed Winterfronts (or home-made ones) to limit airflow through the radiator.

While driving my '30 Tudor to college in the late '50s in Missouri, I had a "Winterfront". It consisted of a piece of cardboard that covered about half of the radiator.

Chris

[Herb Concord Ca]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

In my opinion, yes 140 is too cold, and yes you need a thermostat.
Check out the unit sold by Vintage Precision. I have one on my town sedan. www.vintageprecision.com
Regards,
herb

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Remember, the engine is a water heater and the radiator is a water cooler, and you need a thermostat to coordinate the two.
"THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Remember, the engine is a water heater and the radiator is a water cooler, and you need a thermostat to coordinate the two.

Herb/Bill, naturally I am just "funnin' with y'all", ......but how do you suppose ALL of these Model A engines survived ALL of these years without that "needed thermostat"?

.

[John LaVoy]

Several years ago we did a report on using a thermostat on a Model A in the Model A Times. In the research we found that modern fuel needs the engine to be at 160 degrees for proper burning.

[RonC]

Just put a piece of cardboard over half the radiator. A thermostat is not needed on a stock Model A engine.

[Special Coupe Frank]

A Thermostat helps your engine run better and last longer, especially in cold climates and short-trip driving.

140* is too cold; the oil doesn't get hot enough to vaporize ("boil-off") condensation or fuel mixture that gets past the rings.

180* or 190* is considered ideal for most engines made since the advent of pressurized cooling systems, but 160* is a decent compromise for a Model A...

I run a 160* stat in the upper hose of the '28 in my avatar... temp stays between 160 & 170.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by John LaVoy

Several years ago we did a report on using a thermostat on a Model A in the Model A Times. In the research we found that modern fuel needs the engine to be at 160 degrees for proper burning.

And John, how was this deduced? Through actual dyno testing with an A engine used to obtain accurate data? Fuels used back then were very low in octane and often times impure from handling.

I guess I am being troubled by the word "needs" as if it were to imply that if this widget is not used, then the engine will not operate correctly.

/

[jrelliott]

I installed a 160 degree thermostat in my '28 and it seems to warm up quicker and runs a lot smoother. Not scientific, but just an observation.

[V4F]

i run a 160* . it works well to warm the motor , but my system is all new so it doesnt go over 160* . im very happy with it . when i was in the high desert (-20*) i used cardboard to block the radiator to get it to warm up . ................ steve

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Herb/Bill, naturally I am just "funnin' with y'all", ......but how do you suppose ALL of these Model A engines survived ALL of these years without that "needed thermostat"?

.

Good question Brent, but I think at the time the Model A was built, automotive engineers were just beginning to understand the issues or crankcase dilution / peak thermal efficiency, etc...

For heaven's sake, the Model A didn't even have a "road-draft tube" to ventilate the crankcase....

By 1940, just about every American car and truck had "road-draft tubes" and thermostats... and as early as 1941, some makers were even experimenting with "postive crankcase ventilation" (my '41 De Soto has it).

An excellent book that should be on every car enthusiast's / mechanics shelf is:

"Drive it Forever!", by Robert Sikorsky, SAE.

My copy (early 1980's) was a paper-back with a red '57 Mercury on the cover...

Lots of good info about driving habits, thermostats, oils, etc.


Sure, the Model A, Model T, and many other engines have survived to the present day w/o all this modern stuff, but some of these "gadgets" will help our vintage engines run better / last longer between rebuilds...

Might not make much difference to the show car that only drives bewteen the garage / trailer / show field and back, but for driver vehicles, it can make a significant difference...

Just my moderately humble opinion...

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Point taken Frank but again, I refer many back to post #4 above. Oil dilution from excessive, unburned gasoline is easily cured with proper operation of the Carburetor and the GAV. Maybe y'all are correct that because proper operation is unknown by many Model A driver's today, installing a thermostat is a cure, --but is it necessary ...or needed? If so, then is installing a Mitchell synchro-ed transmission "needed" for city driving? Is halogen bulbs "needed" for safe driving?? Are 16" wheels needed for safe steering?? How about Hydraulic Brakes, --are they needed to have a safe and reliable braking system?? I think all of these is why I am questioning the verbiage "needed". And so we are clear, I am not saying just for show cars, ...I am saying 'drivers' like most people here use their car.

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Herb/Bill, naturally I am just "funnin' with y'all", ......but how do you suppose ALL of these Model A engines survived ALL of these years without that "needed thermostat"?

.

I have a simple answer for this.

Modern engines run 200,300 even 400,000 miles without a rebuild.

There are probably three main reasons for this.

1: oil quality.
2: fuel delivery.
3: 195F thermostats.

Running leaner means less fuel rinsing oil off of cylinders as well as less contamination to the oil.

Thermostats allow engines to run at around 200-220F which keeps fuel from condensation on cylinder walls and again, rinsing oil off of them.

Of course, there are probably other reasons modern engines last 200K without a sweat but I believe the ones I listed are the main ones.

Yes, A model "A" engine works without a T-stat, but it works better with one. So I guess in the end Brent you are right, it doesn't "need" one

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Point taken Frank but again, I refer many back to post #4 above. Oil dilution from excessive, unburned gasoline is easily cured with proper operation of the Carburetor and the GAV. Maybe y'all are correct that because proper operation is unknown by many Model A driver's today, installing a thermostat is a cure, --but is it necessary ...or needed? If so, then is installing a Mitchell synchro-ed transmission "needed" for city driving? Is halogen bulbs "needed" for safe driving?? Are 16" wheels needed for safe steering?? How about Hydraulic Brakes, --are they needed to have a safe and reliable braking system?? I think all of these is why I am questioning the verbiage "needed". And so we are clear, I am not saying just for show cars, ...I am saying 'drivers' like most people here use their car.

Brent, you have gotten your self into a nonsensical defence mode. I would not run a T, A, or B., with out a 180, or 190 thermostat. The engine needs a normal operating Temp. to run efficiently and for proper vaporization of the fuel. Smoother running, better milage, less oil dilution. In Iowa, we need heaters in our cars if you drive, before the salt is added to the the road. With out a thermostat, you would get more heat out of a chicken. If you want the best, for your engine, its needed. Herm.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Can't stress strongly enough the value of the information in this book... I have no connection to the author or the publisher, and do not stand to gain any benefit from encouraging people to obtain and read a copy (many times!)... ( other than contributing to an elightened hobby?)

It made me think quite a bit differently about how vehicles operate, and what can lead them to an early death...
and much of this info is applicable to ANY internal combustion-powered vehicle, whether it's from 1910 or 2010...

Check it out....

http://www.amazon.com/Drive-Forever-...der_0965757706

Will be some of the best money you'll ever spend on automotive reading material !

[HoarseWhisperer]

so......160 degree = good; 180 degree = better???