How many Tudor Model A's can you get on 18' trailer

[trulyvintage]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

With all due respect Jim, are you sure you are correct regarding legality and insurance? I find that hard to believe but maybe you know something different??

As far as altering the frame, my proposal does not alter the frame because it can be totally safe just by bolting it on if that is what the trailer owner wants to do.

And, while we're on this subject please explain to me what happens when the manufacturer of the trailer (such as the one below) is me? Are you implying if I alter my trailer the "warranty" is voided and my insurance company won't insure me??

If you want to build a home made trailer and license it in your state,
good for you .....

You - as the builder - take responsibility ....

Sketching a frame alteration to increase payload capacity
to a manufactured trailer and passing it off as legitimate
for someone else - thats' completely different ...

You are not a trailer manufacturer.

When a manufactured trailer with a VIN number leaves
a factory - it has a GVWR based on the design of the
trailer and the axle size and tire size.

Alter that - have an accident - your insurance will not cover
you .....

Alter that - get stopped by vehicle enforcement - get inspected
and get ticketed ....

Originally Posted by 85930tudor

I drove a semi for years and agree with Brent. If the mods are done safely and legaly they have no problem. Look at all the homemade hack jobs some people use, they are dangerous and in ky your auto ins covers whatever you are hooked too. found this out when I bought a 34 ft pull along camper......I like the spread axle set up on your trailer Brent ..very stable.

Depends on who does the modifications ...

Been pulled over lately ... ?

In New York and Pennsylvania - vehicle enforcement
will ticket you for any overhang off the back of your trailer
deck .....


The bottom line - if you don't own the equipment to do the job
then go out and rent it, borrow it, buy it.

Don't do a home alteration on a manufactured trailer.


Jim

[flatford39]

I would think to get two full fendered cars on the initial one is going to have the front axle lashed down in the tongue area. Somewhere near the ball. That is not a good idea. Probably have to remove the front wheels. That will give you maybe three more feet for the second car. I tow alot and if it was me going on an 800 mile loaded trip I would try to find the right trailer before embarking on the journey you are describing. If you are going to do this toward the end of the month when the local police departments are enforcing their traffic violation quotas on their uniformed personnell, expect to get pulled over for safety violation inspections at least twice more like three times in 800 miles. Hell forget about quotas...if I saw you in my neighborhood doing this I would probably alert the police with my cell phone before you killed somebody.

Don't put yourself at risk when towing and certainly don't put the people around you at risk by doing something that the trailer wasn't designed for. If you have an incident with this, the dream car you want to build will never happen because of all the law suits you will have to defend the rest of your life.

[Mike in Louisiana]

Thanks for everyones thoughts this a great place with good people to share many different ideas. 2 model A cars turned out to be a total of 4 model a cars and 2 AA trucks that We bought from one person so we bought a 42 foot car hauler to pull with my dads
F350 dually and with my 18' trailer and two trips the vehicle we be at there new home.

Thanks alot

Mike

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by comanche260

Thanks for everyones thoughts this a great place with good people to share many different ideas. 2 model A cars turned out to be a total of 4 model a cars and 2 AA trucks that We bought from one person so we bought a 42 foot car hauler to pull with my dads
F350 dually and with my 18' trailer and two trips the vehicle we be at there new home.

Thanks alot

Mike

How about some pictures of this "haul"?

[desotoguy]

Simple, contract Brent 10 to move them for you. Check his pics, he must be in the transport buisness or a rich man, 5 different pic all with 2 different A's.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by desotoguy

Simple, contract Brent 10 to move them for you. Check his pics, he must be in the transport buisness or a rich man, 5 different pic all with 2 different A's.

Hey Desotoguy, Brent chooses to only be in the business of moving his customers cars, ...but he does appreciate the kind suggestion! And trust me when I say ole' Brent is "hauler poor" as it seems he owns WAY too many different type transporters!! One can never have that perfect size it seems. Now that 'Comanche' has a 42 footer, it appears he is still in the same dilemma cuz he's gotta figure out to move all of them in two full 42' loads without having to travel back some 1600 miles just for that last one odd vehicle.

[Chris in WNC]

Brent, you ARE a rich man because you have a great wife + kids and you get to earn your living playing with cars. doesn't get any better, does it?

and yes, from those photos you ARE obviously "hauler poor"

[ronn]

Brent,
I like your thinking. Yes, you are not staying between the lines, but the lines are not always your friend....

Work hard-play hard!

[Popeye31]

Boy some people just have to blow it all out of proportion. screw the lawyers. I can make them fit. where thers a will thers an A I mean way. if you strap them down right the trailer could flip on its side and the cars would still be on the trailer .

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Brent, take another look at your setup with regard to the bending force on the original A frame. The originial goes under the deck and transfers some of the force to the deck siderails. Your A frame transfers a lot of bending force to the point where it ends at the front of the deck. That creates a danger of the original A frame bending where it meets the deck. Just a ballpark figure, but that is about twice the force it is designed for. According to my thinking anyway.

If you are going to do something like that extend it under the deck.

Also, to be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.....

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

Brent, take another look at your setup with regard to the bending force on the original A frame. The originial goes under the deck and transfers some of the force to the deck siderails. Your A frame transfers a lot of bending force to the point where it ends at the front of the deck. That creates a danger of the original A frame bending where it meets the deck. Just a ballpark figure, but that is about twice the force it is designed for. According to my thinking anyway.

If you are going to do something like that extend it under the deck.

Also, to be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.....

I see your point but lets go a different way here. A typical 18' trailer utility-type car hauler style trailer is at minimum going to 3,500 pound axles. That means the trailer by design is going to be rated at 7k minimum. If the trailer itself weighs 1,000 pounds, that puts the carrying capacity at around 6k which is about 1,000 to 1,500 over the rated capcity with both cars, --and this does not consider additional weight that is carried by the tongue and transfered to the tow vehicle. Since in reality there is only about 4 more foot needed, that means the entire load needs to shifted about forward by less than 25% of the trailer deck. Naturally we would want to look at the trailer's tongue construction but theoretically we would be increasing the tongue weight by 25%. Since most trailers must/should be designed for the unexpected, the tongue needs to be over-designed by enough capacity to allow the fool that places his 4k cargo at the front of the trailer. Therefore the tongue likely needs to be designed to handle the rigors of at least 2k, --which is likely more tongue weight than most tow vehicles can absorb. Therefore if we use a 6k GVW on the loaded trailer, that means there should be about 600 pounds of tongue weight +/-. If we were to move the load forward by 25%, that places an additional 150-200 lbs on the hitch, ...which likely is under the weight the hitch can handle. Granted if someone is concerned, like you stated they can always extend the beam rearward to transfer more load.

It probably goes without saying that I should have added some sort of disclaimer to cover those who cannot think sensibly for themselves, but you know, people need to start thinking more on their own and quit relying on other people to tell them what is safe and what isn't. I have no professional engineering background or training, yet solely by myself I designed and fabricated that maroon trailer above to meet my needs. If I had listened to all the neysayers about the tow vehicle being too small, or the spread axles too far apart, or the tail too low, I would have never built what I thought would work. In the end, it did work and has worked well for many, many miles. Maybe I just subscribe to the Nike' saying "Just Do It!!" Thanks for your concern, and I'm glad you stopped by the shop the other day for a visit. I enjoyed it and you are welcome anytime you are passing through.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

My personal motto is "Always overbuild". Your trailer is a HAULER for sure! With the hills and tight curves that you have, you are a brave man indeed!!!!

I also enjoyed the visit to your shop. NIce setup and nice work done there. And up here in rust country we would fight for the right to go through your discard pile!
I also enjoyed meeting Jim Rogers there, who knows his engines.

[Mike in Louisiana]

Made it back with the Model A's

[Tom Wesenberg]

Any loaded pictures?
Did it take two trips?

[Mike in Louisiana]

We made it in one trip using two trucks.

[Mike in Louisiana]

I can see the loaded picture that i saved on the post.

[Mike in Louisiana]

[1931 flamingo]

Nice score!!! Baby blue wheels on the green sedal (last one on trailer) are different...
Paul in CT

[SteveB31]

Simple solution to the original question is.......in my opinion......make two trips. the $$$ saved by doing any of the above mentioned things, would be better spent making two trips. Just my 2 cents, and thats from a guy who has over loaded every trailer I have ever owned, broken axles, broken springs, broken hitches, broken tounges of trailers, and broken the tow vehicle, and learned from my mistakes. Now I make two trips WITHOUT trying all the crazy things I did when I was younger and not as smart. Just yesterday I had the oppurtunity to once again overload a trailer hauling a Model A Coupe and about 4000 lbs of Model A parts home in a snowstorm on icy roads with 50MPH winds, and I instead chose to make one trip with the car, and go back next week and get the rest of the parts, rather then risk killing myself, wrecking a truck and trailer and Model A, only to save $200 in diesel fuel.

Just my opinion.......

Steve Becker
Bert's Model A Center

[trulyvintage]

Originally Posted by Timothy Kelly

Jim

Maybe my explanation was too deep.

Something tells me that I am wasting my time...but ponder the following:

Committing fraud in connection with obtaining auto insurance provides a clear means for an insurance company to deny a claim.

The simply act of modifying a trailer, home made or manufactured, by itself does not constitute fraud.

Period.

I yield to you the final word.......

Cheers,

Timothy

Timothy,

You relate no firsthand experience - just your opinion

Period ....


Jim