There's no profit in it...

[nkaminar]

There is a lot more in life besides sex, especially when you get to be old. For instance food, but in moderation. And when you get really old, just getting up in the morning is wonderful.

[Klattu1929]

Being retired ya have to have a hobby, keeps the mind going and keeps me off the couch. And not driving the wife crazy, HAHA. I bought my 29 phaeton at an auction. I've never even ridden in an A, been working on it for over a year now. I've learned a HUGE amount, started at the rear end with the body off and worked my way forward. Plan on starting it for the first time in the next few months, with the body still off, hanging in the overhead of my shop. Hears the thing, a lot of my friends have boats, they spend thousands to buy boats, fishing gear, on and on. To catch a fish worth maybe $50.

Long story short, for me it's MENTAL health. I can focus on the A and forget about all the crazy things going on in the world. That's how my buddies justify a fish that actually costs 10's of thousands of dollars.
P.S. I am amazed at the amount of info I have learned from The Barn. Keep up the good work. One day soon I'll drive my A down the road!!

['29 Pickup]

Originally Posted by Klattu1929

I can focus on the A and forget about all the crazy things going on in the world. Keep up the good work. One day soon I'll drive my A down the road!!

I hear ya Klattu....last night I spent many happy hours watching removal and re-build of a Model A gearbox and a re-build of a water pump. I rarely watch the news these days.

Good luck with your re-buid.

[Clem Clement]

The friends we have made and the stories/activities we have participated in were what we live on as old age kicks in. I would have missed a second of the like... One day somehow my electric fire-eyed toy rat got loose and e-crawled over a bud's shoe... The next morning finds a fake snake wrapped around my steering wheel. Then Donnie jumped in his and it don't go as a wheel is not touching the ground>. I'm still checking on what happened... In tour we never got once losted! Worn out laughing: YES. I was chief of maintenance for two National tours. Marvelous sharing of knowledge and experience. Between fixings we held training sessions like adj, of headlights, tuneup etc. For the senior guys, I put several steering fittings together and asked the guys to feel the tightness and comment: I played with that for years. I always carried spare parts. And then there is flash, whose muffler clamp fell off and set a cornfield afire,,,
Clem

[Chris in WNC]

when people inquired about the cost of keeping and driving a Model A, I always replied that it was much less expensive than golf or having a boat and for me much more enjoyable......

[P.S.]

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Originally Posted by '29 Pickup

I read a comment recently, somewhere, I cannot recall where.
It was along the lines of..."there's no point in restoring a Model A because you will almost certainly not get back all of the money you put into it".
This has been on my mind as I embark on a restoring a barn find. Am I a fool? Is this what smarter people instantly avoid?

No one has answered your questions specifically yet, so I'll step up and try.

1. No, not a fool as long as your goal is to enjoy the process. Working on a car (any worthwhile project, really) is a way to take a short mental vacation from everyday life and do something with your hands and mind that gives you a feeling of a accomplishment and satisfaction. And it's always less expensive than a therapist.

2. "Smarter people" don't do anything fun. Fun costs money/time. As others have said, if you are doing this to make a financial profit, then that might be foolish. However, if you're doing this for the satisfaction or joy of it, then that makes you the smartest one of all.

Couple years ago, I sold a Model A for $25K. I was in it $40K. However, it made room for another Model A that my wife really wanted. Now, my wife has her own and we enjoy wrenching on it together and she enjoys driving it. I get to look over my left shoulder and see the woman I fell in love with in jr. high school driving a car she loves and enjoying it. That's definitely worth the money I "lost" and much more.

[Big hammer]

We need a like button !

[Keith True]

A couple up the road from me commented on how much the old cars must cost me.I said,how much do you think you've given me over the last 30 years for your horse hobby?Bush hog work,tree removal,manure removal and disposal,R&R 6 inches of the barn floor dirt every couple of years,burying quite a few horses over the years,blast and paint their horse trailers a few times,maintaining the tow vehicle and trailer,chasing frozen water lines and chewed up wiring,and that's just me.No clue how much it costs to feed and provide health care for them.We guessed that I could have bought three,maybe four Model A's with what they paid me over the years.If I run out of money I can park my cars in the barn and ignore them for a while.They can't do that with their animals.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by Keith True

.................If I run out of money I can park my cars in the barn and ignore them for a while.They can't do that with their animals.

. Nice '70 Boss 302's that were hitting $110,000 - $120,000 two or three years ago are going in the price range today, sometimes as low as the mid 70's and low $80's.......



I have to lower that....I just watched Mecum sell a REAL nice '70 Boss 302, a condition 2- car near mint,,, they had to struggle to get $60k for it. Right after that came a '69 Mach 1, R Code car (428CJ) same restored beautifully condition it stalled out at the same money, $60K. The auctiioneer paused and said '$60,000? Are you kidding me? What's going on guys??' The car sold I would have never let either one go for that money...I only regret I wasn't there to bid!

[Wick]

Yes you can turn a profit.
This 31 Slant windshield i can get for 5k
Delivered. Runs and drives. I'll tune it up, hoses,belt,fluids.
The 29 i picked up in 2020 for $4,500 Battery, fluids, hoses,tires then a week to detail it. Gone.
The 31 with the trunk, came with a rebuilt engine, air conditioning, Mitchell overdrive and a great touring engine
Gave $8K. I'm keeping this one.

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by Wick

Yes you can turn a profit.
This 31 Slant windshield i can get for 5k
Delivered. Runs and drives. I'll tune it up, hoses,belt,fluids.
The 29 i picked up in 2020 for $4,500 Battery, fluids, hoses,tires then a week to detail it. Gone.
The 31 with the trunk, came with a rebuilt engine, air conditioning, Mitchell overdrive and a great touring engine
Gave $8K. I'm keeping this one.

Those prices are not available in SoCal for more than 10 minutes. The Craigslist vultures scoop them up from the heirs then offer them for $25-30 grand the following day.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by ModelA29

Those prices are not available in SoCal for more than 10 minutes. The Craigslist vultures scoop them up from the heirs then offer them for $25-30 grand the following day.

They’re not available on this coast either. To get those prices you gotta be a picker, go out and find the cars, talk to people, go to auctions, make a lot of offers. It’s work.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by '29 Pickup

I read a comment recently, somewhere, I cannot recall where.
It was along the lines of..."there's no point in restoring a Model A because you will almost certainly not get back all of the money you put into it".
This has been on my mind as I embark on a restoring a barn find. Am I a fool? Is this what smarter people instantly avoid?

Can I ask you a question?? Excluding a few CCCA eligible vehicles, -how many vehicles can you name that you can buy at fair market value, truly restore it properly, and then being ethical when you sell it can you actually get a ROI??

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Can I ask you a question?? Excluding a few CCCA eligible vehicles, -how many vehicles can you name that you can buy at fair market value, truly restore it properly, and then being ethical when you sell it can you actually get a ROI??

You've framed this question so the answer has to be zero. The OP's question was really two questions put together:

1. Is Model A restoration a financially profitable activity?

2. What is the expected asset performance of the Model A when it is bought, improved, and sold?

The answer to #1 is obviously no, unless you're a full-time restoration shop (and even then....). The answer to #2 is complicated, but it's broadly true that the A behaves like other kinds of property. There are opportunities for arbitrage, the price fluctuates according to laws of supply and demand, it depreciates if not maintained, and the ROI for improvements to the asset varies substantially.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

You've framed this question so the answer has to be zero. The OP's question was really two questions put together:

1. Is Model A restoration a financially profitable activity?

2. What is the expected asset performance of the Model A when it is bought, improved, and sold?

The answer to #1 is obviously no, unless you're a full-time restoration shop (and even then....). The answer to #2 is complicated, but it's broadly true that the A behaves like other kinds of property. There are opportunities for arbitrage, the price fluctuates according to laws of supply and demand, it depreciates if not maintained, and the ROI for improvements to the asset varies substantially.

1. Yes, it depends on who is doing the restoration work.

2. It has been my experiences over the years that this is basically a percentage ratio thingie, ...but a top level (-doesn't need to be a Fine-point accurate, but high quality full restoration) in today's market will likely cost the Restorer about $30k - $40k if (s)he does most of the work themselves. A top-level Model-A will sell for $40k if the bodystyle is a popular one.

Comparatively, the same style body on a hypothetical V-16 Cadillac or Lincoln will be in the $30k - $50k unrestored, -and to do the majority of the restoration work yourself but outsourcing engine & mechanical rebuild, upholstery & trim, britework, etc., restoration costs will likely be in the $150k range to finish with an equal-quality restoration. So the sales price of the Cad or Lincoln (-again, depending on bodystyle) will be in the $175k - $200k range. Therefore this is not really a profitable venture for the hobbyists either. Then as the rarity of the vehicle goes up, the quality level of the restoration needs to follow suit for the vehicle to fetch true value. Even owners of Pebble-level vehicles are generally upside down in their vehicle financially, however they usually are not looking for an immediate ROI. So again, very few vehicles can be restored with a ROI as the focus.

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Can I ask you a question?? Excluding a few CCCA eligible vehicles, -how many vehicles can you name that you can buy at fair market value, truly restore it properly, and then being ethical when you sell it can you actually get a ROI??

I have bought and sold a 1948 Chrysler Town & Country convertible, a 1947
Pontiac Station wagon and a 1948 Chevrolet with the factory authorized dealer installed wood trim kit. I made good money on those transactions and it had a lot to do with timing. The common denominator here is that these were all original woodies in excellent condition. In the overall scheme of things, I'm still upside down on my 45 years of owning old cars.

[gdmn852]

Hello, a friend of mine once asked me what car he could buy and make money on ? I said none ! Remember when in 1976 the last convertible was being built, 1976 Eldorado Cadillac. Some were bought and never driven waiting for big return on “ investment “ . I also have a 1971 MGB and in the local British club, venturing to say all members have more in their Triumphs, MGs , and similar cars than they are worth. As said throughout this thread, it’s a hobby, I enjoy getting up at sunrise in summer,with dew still on ground, traveling on the rural backroads, but still keeping an eye out for deer , how much is that in $$$$?

[gdmn852]

Here’s a couple of more money losing “investments “

[Seth Swoboda]

You do it because you love it and enjoy the process. Oh, and you probably have some discretionary income.

[Gene F]

These comments are all correct. I bought a quart of paint for the hood of my Marquis this past year. Nothing special, I got it at Sherwin-Williams Automotive Finishes store. A can of reducer, activator, disposable respirator. I had sandpaper, and roughed up the existing stained finish. I had like $260 just in that. Think how much it would cost just to spray a car. Tires seem to be expensive these days too. If you need a radiator they are pretty expensive. Pretty expensive to get an interior put in these days. I don't like the kits now that L/B is closed. To me the other (kits) stuff (are) is like sitting on a burlap sack. It all adds up.

I always feel like the rule of thumb is if you restore a car figure you can get 50 cents on the dollar if you want to sell it. Better odds, and cheaper to buy a better car to start with.