To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

[JM 35 Sedan]

The instructions that came with the last three sets of pumps that I had rebuilt by Skip said...."Do not use thermostats in temperatures above 65° with these high volume pumps. In winter or cold temperatures a 160 degree is recommended with a maximum of 180. Do not use any thermostat with an internal opening when fully open of less the 1-1/4" inside. Any restriction or restrictor will impair the cooling with the use of these pumps".

I am running original equipement open center type thermostats in my '35 fordor. Have not had any major cooling problems with these pumps and thermostats in the last 20,000 miles

[Old Henry]

Just in case anyone wants to get the Stant stat for their engine here is some information about that. It is a Stant 14157 available on line many places including Amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C822YC or at NAPA part number THM 111, or at O'Reilly that sells the same stat as a Murray 4157, O'Reilly part number 2962.

[Mike51Merc]

Henry, thanks for the real world experience.
I don't know when the first thermostats appeared in the automotive world, but I do know that every car manufactured since has had a thermostat. Who am I to second-guess automotive engineers?

I can't imagine why anyone would consider running without one. If your car overheats, it has a problem. Fix the problem. To me it's like converting to 12 Volts because your 6 volt system has bad grounds.

[38 Ford Guy]

Henry thanks for the information glad you were diligent in your research. I ordered a set of Stants from Summit and plan to put them in my Flathead as soon as I get them. Made in the Good Ol' USA . Looks like the opening is within 1mm of the old flip stats. I use the Skip Hanney pumps so these will be great. The 330 stats from Robert is what I had but if you look at the opening between the hose after they are cut down it is very small not allowing a lot of flow. I think these will be the ticket.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by 38 Ford Guy

Henry thanks for the information glad you were diligent in your research. I ordered a set of Stants from Summit and plan to put them in my Flathead as soon as I get them. Made in the Good Ol' USA . Looks like the opening is within 1mm of the old flip stats. I use the Skip Hanney pumps so these will be great. The 330 stats from Robert is what I had but if you look at the opening between the hose after they are cut down it is very small not allowing a lot of flow. I think these will be the ticket.

Here's what all modern thermostats are competing against - Ford's original design.



These are NOS Ford stats for my 47 that a very kind barner just sold to me. Just compare them with the modern stats and you'll see the real advantages of them. They have a butterfly valve that swivels clear out of the way of water flow. And, look at the size of that hole once it's opened up! Way bigger than any modern stats. And, the mechanism that opens it is small and much less intrusive into the water flow than modern stats.

The butterfly valve closed.


Fully open.


The spring that pulls it shut rather then pushing it like modern stats.


This Ford NOS stat has an opening of 29 mm compared to the modern replacement of 25 or even the Stant of 28. That's 7% higher volume than the Stant and 34% higher than the current replacements. Too bad no one makes 'em like this any more.

[Talkwrench]

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How cool is that! a flipper..

[52merc]

well so far ol henrys threads anout this amount to
150 replies about stats ect
4419 views dont you think its about time this went to bed

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by 52merc

well so far ol henrys threads anout this amount to
150 replies about stats ect
4419 views dont you think its about time this went to bed

No, I think a lot of good information has been put forward. I have noticed that GM has been pretty quiet..

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by 52merc

well so far ol henrys threads anout this amount to
150 replies about stats ect
4419 views dont you think its about time this went to bed

Yeah, let's switch over and talk about something else like . . . water pumps. Yeah, now there's a topic that's hardly ever mentioned.

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

No, I think a lot of good information has been put forward. I have noticed that GM has been pretty quiet..

GM deals in fact not fiction. I know exactly how Napa 111 stats work. If they listen to Henry's BS there will be a lot of hot running old Fords running around. G.M.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

No, I think a lot of good information has been put forward. I have noticed that GM has been pretty quiet..

I agree...there certainly has been a lot of information posted here....how good it actually is remains a big question in my mind. On the basis of a couple test runs with variable conditions, I would not be too quick to run out to the garage and begin making these changes on my cars. At the risk of upsetting the originator of this post, once again, I have to say there is not enough conclusive information/test results, run under controlled conditions, presented here to make a final decision. That's of course just my opinion.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by G.M.

I know exactly how Napa 111 stats work. If they listen to Henry's BS there will be a lot of hot running old Fords running around. G.M.

Have a familiar ring? "I know exactly what the shape of the world is. If you fools listen to Columbus' BS and get on that boat there will be a lot of stupid people going off the edge of the earth."

(Good thing this is just a hobby to have fun with or some people might get their undies in a twist when their opinions are contradicted.)

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

I have to say there is not enough conclusive information/test results, run under controlled conditions, presented here to make a final decision. That's of course just my opinion.

I am leaving in a few hours on a 400 mile trip up over 10,000 feet and down a couple of times with the Stant stats and will report how they work "in the long run".

[chuck stevens]

Maybe I'm being a little rude, but who just had engine trouble? I'll run 190's!

[38 Ford Guy]

One thing I have learned about Flatheads....each one runs different temps. I have a three of them built the same and one always runs warmer. I have tried a several combinations and it always sits around the 220 to 230 area. Without stats 160 to 180 I have found stats make it worse so for me doing what Henry did is well worth the try it is only $15.00 (with shipping) and a little time. For 15 bucks I will hold off buying a case of beer and a headache the next morning.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by chuck stevens

Maybe I'm being a little rude, but who just had engine trouble? I'll run 190's!

Not that it had anything to do with the trouble I had but that engine trouble was without thermostats. I noticed that every time the engine got down toward 130° or below it did not run as well as above that. All the more reason to run stats.

[VeryTangled]

Hello Everyone, As usual I'm learning a lot from you fellas.

-VT/JeffH

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by VeryTangled

Hello Everyone, As usual I'm learning a lot from you fellas.

-VT/JeffH

Wow! You is de man.
Thanks so much for finishing the job I tried to finish and couldn't.
Nothing like a graph to really show the difference between stats and no stats.

Thanks again.

(Oops. I see that the year in your heading is off one but doesn't matter. The meaning of the illustration is not affected by it.)

[Old Henry]

A quicker big view to save a click or two.

[Bob NH]

Man oh man ! This is confusing. I just went down to the basement and looked at some NOS Harrison thermostats. Some said on the box, 153 degree and run with alcohol base antifreeze and some others are 171 degree and say, use with permanant antifreeze. (I have a 50/50 mix at this time).I have no idea at the moment if my car has them in or not but I feel it ran very hot coming home from a little cruise a couple of evenings ago. Gauge showed normal most of the way home and then spiked the last couple of miles. This engine was completely rebuilt when I got the car about three years ago. The paper work that came with it shows it also has Haneys pumps and taking the pressure cap off when it is running seems to have the flow of a fire hydrant. I am going to pull a hose Monday and see if it has stats in. I was always under the impression that you put those in for the winter so your heater would keep you warm and had never heard of running them in the summer till I came on here. I have been following the comments with great interest and not too crazy about "frying" a nice engine by over heating it.