The Ford Barn

47COE · 12-04-2014, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfla

A very fine mechanic always told me, "as long as we are having a conversation about an engine NOT running, it takes TWO things for an engine to run, GAS & SPARK!" SO.....if you have spark???

It takes 3 things, not 2. The third is exhaust. If the exhaust is plugged by, for example a mouse nest, the engine won't start or run. You can guess how I know that.

Tom

37fordtruckguy · 12-04-2014, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

You need to get back to basics and confirm the dist is in the correct position.Your statements sound like it wasn't correct from the time you installed it from the get go.At true TDC on #1 cyl. Appears a tooth out.Running it for 300 miles with the problem described isn't the best condition for a new engine.

Here is the wiring

when i put the engine together i had everything in order. It was running like a top until the last few day and now this.

rockfla · 12-04-2014, 04:24 PM

Going by your original post, you stated that you did have spark, but not running. Three things, Air...we're still talking so we have air, Spark....you stated that you still have that. Fuel.....the question then is are you STILL getting fuel???? If your getting fuel (Positive) then start back looking at the spark delivery system, timing, gaps, plugs etc etc etc, but no mention of for sure fuel delivery??????? Not trying to be a smart ass make sure your pump didn't quit pumping or that its drawing fuel from the tank. Did the fuel drain from the pump while sitting and perhaps its pulling air (gravity) back to the tank etc, etc, etc.

dean333 · 12-04-2014, 04:27 PM

Post #21, the third is COMPRESSION. You can't have exhaust if it's not running.

rockfla · 12-04-2014, 04:32 PM

is it wanting to catch but doesn't, does it spit or sputter like it wants to fire??? I would check all of the fuel line connections and make sure first that all are tight and not sucking air and or allowing the fuel to lose pressure and drain back to the tank. Then I would loosen the outlet line to the carb and check to make sure your fuel pump is pumping, then double check the accelerator pump and make sure its pumping.

rockfla · 12-04-2014, 04:35 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

We know it was running previously, so we know we had compression and that any mouse nest would have been blown out. SO back to the three MAIN basics to an internal combustion engine, AIR, SPARK, GAS...

37fordtruckguy · 12-04-2014, 04:57 PM

[QUOTE=rockfla;992165]is it wanting to catch but doesn't, does it spit or sputter like it wants to fire??? I would check all of the fuel line connections and make sure first that all are tight and not sucking air and or allowing the fuel to lose pressure and drain back to the tank. Then I would loosen the outlet line to the carb and check to make sure your fuel pump is pumping, then double check the accelerator pump and make sure its pumping.[/QUOTE

I am just going to have to do a second inspection on everything to make sure i didn't miss something. I want to say its fuel related but i get plenty of gas coming out of the carbs. I have had it draw a vacuum on the fuel filter before to where it would even start.

rockfla · 12-05-2014, 08:01 AM

I just remember as a kid on our 37 wagon, that my dad would fight the leather accelerator pump diaphragms and fuel pumps after the car would sit for a while and he would start it, drive it around the neighborhood and get it good and warmed up and bring it home, park it and then it wouldn't want to run, so it was days of figuring out fuel or spark issues from sitting. Most of the time, fuel issues.

rockfla · 12-05-2014, 04:26 PM

Can you pour some gas down the carb and will it fire then, since you stated you have spark????

Ronnie · 12-05-2014, 04:34 PM

Pouring raw gas down the carb is a recipe for disaster and fire.Just get an old spray container like windex and introduce the fuel like that as the engine is being cranked over.Raw fuel will introduce fuel wash.

R

AnthonyG · 12-05-2014, 05:21 PM

From your description I don't believe you have messed with ( tuned / moved your words ) the distributor yet since last start. Sounded like you wanted to start it before adjusting the timing? Assuming that's correct tri-power a tricky set up. Make sure your front and rear carbs are getting no gas until your progressive brings them on line. That is make sure your linkage has the front and rear throttle plates completely shut on start-up and if you still have the idle adjust screws on the front and rear make sure they are backed all the way off so no gas gets to them at idle. If they still have the choke plate in them make sure their open. ( front and rear carbs should be secondary set-ups with out those items). If it's cold ( not sure where Placerville is ) your choke on the middle ( main carb ) needs to be set up so you can adjust / choke it on your start. Sounds like all or some of this needs adjusting and probably flooded as a result. If you are flooded and have kept trying you probably soaked the plugs with gas. I know the standard is to keep the throttle floored when its flooded until it starts but I have found that doesn't always work. Pull your plugs, make sure they are dry. leave them out and take your compressor and blow air through the center carb with throttle plates open for a while to dry out the engine. Don't use a vacuum cleaner as it has electrical armatures not isolated from the air ( dangerous ). Then check your gaps and re-install the dry plugs. If you indeed have a spark and you didn't move the distributor since it last ran I'm betting it will start and you can fine tune your timing then.
Good luck.

dean333 · 12-05-2014, 05:47 PM

Re: post 26. Yes we know it was running previously but one of the 3 MAIN as you say is missing. You can have spark, gas and all the air in the world but no engine will start without COMPRESSION. The 3 MAIN ARE FUEL, SPARK AND COMPRESSION.

37fordtruckguy · 12-05-2014, 07:26 PM

I finally got it to run. It was between a condenser going bad and the intake manifold plug being loose.

dean333 · 12-05-2014, 07:48 PM

Great news!

37fordtruckguy · 12-05-2014, 08:05 PM

Runs just fine now. Thanks for the help everyone.

B-O-B · 12-05-2014, 08:08 PM

Good news however, fixing/changing one thing @ a time will reveal what the problem was.

Binx · 12-05-2014, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37fordtruckguy

I finally got it to run. It was between a condenser going bad and the intake manifold plug being loose.

What is an "intake manifold plug"?

Ronnie · 12-05-2014, 09:26 PM

Ya me too ^^^^^

R

big job · 12-06-2014, 04:04 AM

Thats good new however I have the same problem. Our truck used every day, backed
in the shop and thats all she wrote. (I'm no beginner with these we rebuild these) the
truck we bought new a 1950 F6 239. It has all the ingredience's still no fire. So you
know whats in my mind. And I dread what I gotta do next. For a starter is to get the
distrubutor out carefully trying for a week with no avail. pry bar & tapping did get it
up 1/4 inch, I'm thinking to warm up the cover, not much but a little. Also it was converted to 12vts about 50yrs ago. Oh yea the dreaded part removing those nasty
lower radiator hoses.....sam

Mart · 12-06-2014, 04:36 AM

Well done to the OP. Sam, it might be better if you posted a fresh thread with your specific circumstances.

Mart.

12-04-2014, 04:24 PM	#23
rockfla Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 4,021	Re: engine won't fire up? Going by your original post, you stated that you did have spark, but not running. Three things, Air...we're still talking so we have air, Spark....you stated that you still have that. Fuel.....the question then is are you STILL getting fuel???? If your getting fuel (Positive) then start back looking at the spark delivery system, timing, gaps, plugs etc etc etc, but no mention of for sure fuel delivery??????? Not trying to be a smart ass make sure your pump didn't quit pumping or that its drawing fuel from the tank. Did the fuel drain from the pump while sitting and perhaps its pulling air (gravity) back to the tank etc, etc, etc.

12-04-2014, 04:27 PM	#24
dean333 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Shorewood Illinois Posts: 892	Re: engine won't fire up? Post #21, the third is COMPRESSION. You can't have exhaust if it's not running. __________________ Tim Carlig

12-04-2014, 04:32 PM	#25
rockfla Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 4,021	Re: engine won't fire up? is it wanting to catch but doesn't, does it spit or sputter like it wants to fire??? I would check all of the fuel line connections and make sure first that all are tight and not sucking air and or allowing the fuel to lose pressure and drain back to the tank. Then I would loosen the outlet line to the carb and check to make sure your fuel pump is pumping, then double check the accelerator pump and make sure its pumping.

12-04-2014, 04:35 PM	#26
rockfla Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 4,021	Re: engine won't fire up? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) We know it was running previously, so we know we had compression and that any mouse nest would have been blown out. SO back to the three MAIN basics to an internal combustion engine, AIR, SPARK, GAS...

12-04-2014, 04:57 PM	#27
37fordtruckguy Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Placerville Posts: 53	Re: engine won't fire up? [QUOTE=rockfla;992165]is it wanting to catch but doesn't, does it spit or sputter like it wants to fire??? I would check all of the fuel line connections and make sure first that all are tight and not sucking air and or allowing the fuel to lose pressure and drain back to the tank. Then I would loosen the outlet line to the carb and check to make sure your fuel pump is pumping, then double check the accelerator pump and make sure its pumping.[/QUOTE I am just going to have to do a second inspection on everything to make sure i didn't miss something. I want to say its fuel related but i get plenty of gas coming out of the carbs. I have had it draw a vacuum on the fuel filter before to where it would even start.

12-05-2014, 08:01 AM	#28
rockfla Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 4,021	Re: engine won't fire up? I just remember as a kid on our 37 wagon, that my dad would fight the leather accelerator pump diaphragms and fuel pumps after the car would sit for a while and he would start it, drive it around the neighborhood and get it good and warmed up and bring it home, park it and then it wouldn't want to run, so it was days of figuring out fuel or spark issues from sitting. Most of the time, fuel issues.

12-05-2014, 04:26 PM	#29
rockfla Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 4,021	Re: engine won't fire up? Can you pour some gas down the carb and will it fire then, since you stated you have spark????

12-05-2014, 04:34 PM	#30
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: engine won't fire up? Pouring raw gas down the carb is a recipe for disaster and fire.Just get an old spray container like windex and introduce the fuel like that as the engine is being cranked over.Raw fuel will introduce fuel wash. R

12-05-2014, 05:21 PM	#31
AnthonyG Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,181	Re: engine won't fire up? From your description I don't believe you have messed with ( tuned / moved your words ) the distributor yet since last start. Sounded like you wanted to start it before adjusting the timing? Assuming that's correct tri-power a tricky set up. Make sure your front and rear carbs are getting no gas until your progressive brings them on line. That is make sure your linkage has the front and rear throttle plates completely shut on start-up and if you still have the idle adjust screws on the front and rear make sure they are backed all the way off so no gas gets to them at idle. If they still have the choke plate in them make sure their open. ( front and rear carbs should be secondary set-ups with out those items). If it's cold ( not sure where Placerville is ) your choke on the middle ( main carb ) needs to be set up so you can adjust / choke it on your start. Sounds like all or some of this needs adjusting and probably flooded as a result. If you are flooded and have kept trying you probably soaked the plugs with gas. I know the standard is to keep the throttle floored when its flooded until it starts but I have found that doesn't always work. Pull your plugs, make sure they are dry. leave them out and take your compressor and blow air through the center carb with throttle plates open for a while to dry out the engine. Don't use a vacuum cleaner as it has electrical armatures not isolated from the air ( dangerous ). Then check your gaps and re-install the dry plugs. If you indeed have a spark and you didn't move the distributor since it last ran I'm betting it will start and you can fine tune your timing then. Good luck. __________________ Nomad

12-05-2014, 05:47 PM	#32
dean333 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Shorewood Illinois Posts: 892	Re: engine won't fire up? Re: post 26. Yes we know it was running previously but one of the 3 MAIN as you say is missing. You can have spark, gas and all the air in the world but no engine will start without COMPRESSION. The 3 MAIN ARE FUEL, SPARK AND COMPRESSION. __________________ Tim Carlig

12-05-2014, 07:26 PM	#33
37fordtruckguy Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Placerville Posts: 53	Re: engine won't fire up? I finally got it to run. It was between a condenser going bad and the intake manifold plug being loose.

12-05-2014, 07:48 PM	#34
dean333 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Shorewood Illinois Posts: 892	Re: engine won't fire up? Great news! __________________ Tim Carlig

12-05-2014, 08:05 PM	#35
37fordtruckguy Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Placerville Posts: 53	Re: engine won't fire up? Runs just fine now. Thanks for the help everyone.

12-05-2014, 08:08 PM	#36
B-O-B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ft Mohave,Az Posts: 1,988	Re: engine won't fire up? Good news however, fixing/changing one thing @ a time will reveal what the problem was.

12-05-2014, 09:26 PM	#38
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: engine won't fire up? Ya me too ^^^^^ R

12-06-2014, 04:04 AM	#39
big job Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Dighton, Mass Posts: 1,230	Re: engine won't fire up? Thats good new however I have the same problem. Our truck used every day, backed in the shop and thats all she wrote. (I'm no beginner with these we rebuild these) the truck we bought new a 1950 F6 239. It has all the ingredience's still no fire. So you know whats in my mind. And I dread what I gotta do next. For a starter is to get the distrubutor out carefully trying for a week with no avail. pry bar & tapping did get it up 1/4 inch, I'm thinking to warm up the cover, not much but a little. Also it was converted to 12vts about 50yrs ago. Oh yea the dreaded part removing those nasty lower radiator hoses.....sam

12-06-2014, 04:36 AM	#40
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,779	Re: engine won't fire up? Well done to the OP. Sam, it might be better if you posted a fresh thread with your specific circumstances. Mart.