New block machining.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by mshmodela

Awesome Tod! So any data on once a few blocks have been fully made and used in a running engine what might be the demand for them? What the retail cost of finished block (ready for assembly) might be?

Mike,

I'm not sure what demand will be. Some think hundreds, some think thousands, some, like me, don't know what to expect. I am shooting for 'ready-to-assemble' blocks under $2500.00. The closer to $2000.00 the better. One of my goals is to make searching through several bad blocks for a good block such a waste of time and money that the old junk will become completely undesirable.

Added by edit: Mike, going by the initial polling, it seems that I may be able to have some 200 customers right off the bat. One of my builders says people are just waiting for this to get into production so they do not have to try finding a buildable block. Several people have told me privately that they want more than 1 so who knows what the numbers might end up being. My friend says he would like to see machining quantities of at least 50 at a time. So, hopefully, that is repeated often.

Tod

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes

Paul,
The "Other" one has already done 25 test castings. Now looking for a foundry to pour them in mass. I am sure Tod would agree this is not a race to see who will be first. But more about making a quality product. Both men are devoted to their cause.

Being familiar with Globe's work and capacity I do not see why they could not make a simple block casting in mass quantities. They are members of the AFS (for which I have lectured) and DIS. If they can't make a block nobody can.

And, no, I'm not in a race with anyone. As I said before, I think Terry and I are targeting two different markets.

Tod

[mshmodela]

$2k seems about what I was guessing it might be given the price of new head...

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by mshmodela

$2k seems about what I was guessing it might be given the price of new head...

I agree. I just had a B block machined 'here/there' and REPAIRED/BRAZED, mainly in the valve seat areas....and was NOT a happy camper with the cost. Heck, I think that my block was in better shape than some I've seen repaired. To have a NEW B block , from NEW metal compound and machined with NEW technology (with 5x5 B innards ) for your price projections equals no brainer decision !

[CarlG]

My question still looms: Where are the 5 main cranks going to come from?

[Tod]

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Originally Posted by CarlG

My question still looms: Where are the 5 main cranks going to come from?

My worry right now, if you want to call it worry, is making blocks for people that want them. I never said I would make cranks so I figure people asking me for a 5x5 block have a crank already. If I have to I can surely make a crank. Done it before.

Tod

[CarlG]

I applaud your dedication to making a new block and have followed your progress with much interest. And right at this minute, I am in the market for not just a block, but for a complete working engine. Just not sure where all the needed and necessary parts will come from to make me a "new" engine. Just trying to put 2 and 2 together.

[CWPASADENA]

Hi Tod;

Good to hear that things are progressing,

I will need crank, cam or at least a cam blank.

How about rods? Hopefully the rod throws can be Model "B" size?

I will need all the internals.

Chris W.

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by CarlG

My question still looms: Where are the 5 main cranks going to come from?

Terry is casting the 5 main cranks and the H beam rods.

The engine Terry is doing is different than Tod's. Where Tod's is a replacement Terry's is much different than original. Apples and oranges so to speak.

The Burtz 5 main crank will not work in a stock A engine. It uses Small Block Chevrolet main and rod bearings.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by CarlG

My question still looms: Where are the 5 main cranks going to come from?

Carl, guys have retrofitted a crankshaft from a Hercules engine that has 5 mains however another option (better??) is to have SCAT manufacture a complete new billet crank. It would take them modifying their CNC program but I doubt it would add more than $400-$500 more to the price of their present cranks.

This definitely makes everything available to assemble an engine with all brand new parts manufactured in the 21st century.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Carl, guys have retrofitted a crankshaft from a Hercules engine that has 5 mains however another option (better??) is to have SCAT manufacture a complete new billet crank. It would take them modifying their CNC program but I doubt it would add more than $400-$500 more to the price of their present cranks.

This definitely makes everything available to assemble an engine with all brand new parts manufactured in the 21st century.

Just speculating but if SCAT were to make a model A/B crank it would most likely be cast like their flathead V8 cranks are. It's a cost thing.
If you want a billet crank, Moldex or Crower are probably the best options right now. I have used Moldex over the years and you can't do any better.

My thoughts are that when people find out what the final cost of a 5 x 5 engine is it will become a lot less attractive.
These after market blocks will probably never be legal to run in vintage competition other than "time only".
I see them as the best thing that has come along for a touring engine though.

[CarlG]

Just curious if any of the Engine Builders have expressed an interest in completing these blocks into short or long block engines? (Rich Fallucca, James Rogers, Ron Kelley, etc.)

[Mitch//pa]

i agree with where Carl is coming from.. many of us just want to purchase a ready made long or short block through a supplier with a warranty and not get involved in building it ourselves. my guess this is down the road a little

[Tod]

Anyone with an Integrex 200 model 5 axis lathe can make a 5 main billet crank. The cost of the 5x5 engine is such that my approach started with the most cost effective and popular direction first. Snyder steered me in the direction of the stock A block and the polls made me add B internal capacity. My guess is stock A is where my main market will be.

And, so far, the only builder that has discussed building engines with my blocks is Kevin Prus Jr., who builds motors for Snyder. That may jut be how some will get their motors.

Tod

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Tod

Anyone with an Integrex 200 model 5 axis lathe can make a 5 main billet crank. The cost of the 5x5 engine is such that my approach started with the most cost effective and popular direction first. Snyder steered me in the direction of the stock A block and the polls made me add B internal capacity. My guess is stock A is where my main market will be.

And, so far, the only builder that has discussed building engines with my blocks is Kevin Prus Jr., who builds motors for Snyder. That may jut be how some will get their motors.

Tod

That is true about the 5 axis lathe, BUT, I have made several cranks from SAE 6150 on a plain jane 18 inch Cinnicinati lathe.

[Crazydaddyo]

Originally Posted by Pete

Just speculating but if SCAT were to make a model A/B crank it would most likely be cast like their flathead V8 cranks are. It's a cost thing.

Scat makes a crank for the 3 main A/B engine now. It is forged.

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/#1

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Crazydaddyo

Scat makes a crank for the 3 main A/B engine now. It is forged.

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/#1

Far out.

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by Pete

That is true about the 5 axis lathe, BUT, I have made several cranks from SAE 6150 on a plain jane 18 inch Cinnicinati lathe.

My guess is that you might be the best source for the 5 bearing cam too.
I'm pretty sure you CAN do it, just not sure you'd WANT to...
I think I know that most roller tappet stuff is made from billet, so carving the 5 bearing cam for the A/B shouldnt be a big deal, once the setup program is overcome, but how many is enough to make it worth it, cost=wise?
I don't have a clue about that, but I'm sure its a question that has to have a good answer before anybody is going to jump in and start grinding.
I'm watching this, curious about the internals also. Hope it takes off.
Good Luck, Tod.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

My guess is that you might be the best source for the 5 bearing cam too.
I'm pretty sure you CAN do it, just not sure you'd WANT to...
I think I know that most roller tappet stuff is made from billet, so carving the 5 bearing cam for the A/B shouldnt be a big deal, once the setup program is overcome, but how many is enough to make it worth it, cost=wise?
I don't have a clue about that, but I'm sure its a question that has to have a good answer before anybody is going to jump in and start grinding.
I'm watching this, curious about the internals also. Hope it takes off.
Good Luck, Tod.

It would be FAR more practical just install two bolt in cam bearing blocks in the block and grind the appropriate area on the cam. This has been done many times.

There is another alternative also if you have a back yard machine shop.
This cam started out a stock model A core. It has 5 oversize journals
and .488 lift. Lots of welding required but the overall cost of the finished product was about 10% cheaper than a bar stock billet.

[CarlG]

Aren't Bill Stipe's cams already 5 bearing cams?