The Ford Barn

Brentwood Bob · 06-28-2014, 01:40 AM

Did you change the oil pump drive gear? or is the distributor real tightly secured to the head? You might have a bind on the cam.
Bob

tbirdtbird · 06-28-2014, 02:13 AM

loose rear engine mounts?

daveymc29 · 06-28-2014, 11:30 PM

So, today I pulled the number 4 piston, some missing babbitt, about the size of a thumbnail is gone. Where could it have gone? No marks on the crank journal, pulled number three, all looks well, one and two come out tomorrow, just as a precaution. I will hone it a bit and put in a new set of rings while I'm this far and take the center main cap off and have a look. Mike the shaft and slap her back together, between eye surgeries. Shouldn't take more than two months.

Russell in Tulsa · 06-29-2014, 01:15 AM

I too had a rattle as I would describe it, and this was after adjusting the shims. Turned out to be #3 wrist pin.

Tom Wesenberg · 06-29-2014, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell in Tulsa

I too had a rattle as I would describe it, and this was after adjusting the shims. Turned out to be #3 wrist pin.

Good point, as wrist pins need a much tighter fit than the other end of the rod. Wrist pins should have only about .0003" to .0005" clearance. If you can see or feel play in the wrist pin, it's probably too loose.

Was the babbit a void during the pour, or can you see it's actually broken out and missing?

daveymc29 · 06-29-2014, 09:24 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Don't know where my reply went, but I pulled number 4 piston and have a piece of babbitt the size of your thumbnail missing from the rod. Didn't fine the broken off part, which is another puzzle to solve.
thanks for the help guys.

Purdy Swoft · 06-29-2014, 12:02 PM

Without hearing the rattle, it is hard to say. I've seen engines with small chunks of babbit missing in a connecting rod that didn't rattle if the rod wasn't running loose as in too much clearance. I would address the babbitt problem before reassembling the engine. While the engine is apart, I would take a good look at the tops of the pistons and head gasket. If the cylinders are bored over .060 and the wrong head gasket is used without the proper chamfer on the upper circumferance of the pistons, you can get some noise from the pistons hitting the overlapping gasket. For larger bores you need a big bore gasket. The Felpro 7013 C gasket is good for bores of one hundred and twenty five thousants and slightly larger. Head gaskets overhanging the edges of the cylinder is not a good thing in any case. Most of the newer large oversized pistons have a chamfer but the older ones do not. I would also check how much the pistons rise above deck height. Originally the pistons rose about .032 above deck height. If the engine has been decked several times it can sometimes cause a problem. As the engine warms, things expand, as rpms increase there can be some flex and the pistons may reach for the counter bore in the head and cause a rattle. This may seem a long shot but I figure it is worth mention .

Gerald D. Walker · 06-29-2014, 12:26 PM

I had a heater valve flapper that was loose and made a rattling noise. Anything attached up against the firewall can make strange noises that are hard to pinpoint.

daveymc29 · 07-02-2014, 10:47 PM

Just want to thank all you guys who pitched in, good advice, some humor and some thought provoking. The end result is there is a piece of babbitt mission in number four rod and the rear main shows some strange coloring. End play is .013+ so the engine is on the hook and will go to the rebuilder tomorrow or maybe later, but real soon. It has 20 to 25 thousand miles on it and I didn't do the rebuild. Looking inside some of it seems suspect such as one shim, .001 on one of the rods and all the rest started with .011 for a shim pack. I suspect the old boy I bought it from did a real good job of cleaning up an old engine and it made do without repairing the bearings. Must have adjusted what there was and that really wasn't all that bad. I have never babied it and didn't really expect to get the miles I did.
Thanks for the input.
Dave Mc Arthur

TDO · 07-03-2014, 08:53 AM

How about your brake rods

Duffy1 · 07-03-2014, 10:04 AM

Mine did this . Timing to far advanced . Try retarding your spark lever a little bit and see if the rattle noise is reduced. I finally had to set my timing by ear which was more retarded than normal.

rocket1 · 07-03-2014, 03:28 PM

check the oil pump drive gear assy;could be badly worn.

norway · 07-05-2014, 02:51 AM

my model a engine has 1,25 piston in it, (it is being overhauled). but i will use synders 5.5:1 head, when the engine is done.
and i need ford model b head gasket that allow 1,25 piston. what can i use in model b gasket?

if i had chosen to use Stock model a head, i can use felpro 7013C?

tudoor · 07-05-2014, 07:39 AM

I had a rattle/vibration at mid speeds half throttle that drove me crazy and it came from the passenger side. Had the passenger hood open one time and had the throttle revved up and noticed the steel gas line vibrating as I revved it up! I slid a rubber hose and clamp over the line and it stopped my noise coming through the fire wall.

06-28-2014, 01:40 AM	#21
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,303	Re: Engine "Rattle" Did you change the oil pump drive gear? or is the distributor real tightly secured to the head? You might have a bind on the cam. Bob

06-28-2014, 02:13 AM	#22
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Engine "Rattle" loose rear engine mounts? __________________ '31 180A

06-28-2014, 11:30 PM	#23
daveymc29 BANNED Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,557	Re: Engine "Rattle" So, today I pulled the number 4 piston, some missing babbitt, about the size of a thumbnail is gone. Where could it have gone? No marks on the crank journal, pulled number three, all looks well, one and two come out tomorrow, just as a precaution. I will hone it a bit and put in a new set of rings while I'm this far and take the center main cap off and have a look. Mike the shaft and slap her back together, between eye surgeries. Shouldn't take more than two months.

06-29-2014, 01:15 AM	#24
Russell in Tulsa Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tulsa Oklahoma Posts: 298	Re: Engine "Rattle" I too had a rattle as I would describe it, and this was after adjusting the shims. Turned out to be #3 wrist pin.

06-29-2014, 09:24 AM	#26
daveymc29 BANNED Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,557	Re: Engine "Rattle" Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Don't know where my reply went, but I pulled number 4 piston and have a piece of babbitt the size of your thumbnail missing from the rod. Didn't fine the broken off part, which is another puzzle to solve. thanks for the help guys.

06-29-2014, 12:02 PM	#27
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Engine "Rattle" Without hearing the rattle, it is hard to say. I've seen engines with small chunks of babbit missing in a connecting rod that didn't rattle if the rod wasn't running loose as in too much clearance. I would address the babbitt problem before reassembling the engine. While the engine is apart, I would take a good look at the tops of the pistons and head gasket. If the cylinders are bored over .060 and the wrong head gasket is used without the proper chamfer on the upper circumferance of the pistons, you can get some noise from the pistons hitting the overlapping gasket. For larger bores you need a big bore gasket. The Felpro 7013 C gasket is good for bores of one hundred and twenty five thousants and slightly larger. Head gaskets overhanging the edges of the cylinder is not a good thing in any case. Most of the newer large oversized pistons have a chamfer but the older ones do not. I would also check how much the pistons rise above deck height. Originally the pistons rose about .032 above deck height. If the engine has been decked several times it can sometimes cause a problem. As the engine warms, things expand, as rpms increase there can be some flex and the pistons may reach for the counter bore in the head and cause a rattle. This may seem a long shot but I figure it is worth mention .

06-29-2014, 12:26 PM	#28
Gerald D. Walker Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Georgetown, Texas Posts: 18	Re: Engine "Rattle" I had a heater valve flapper that was loose and made a rattling noise. Anything attached up against the firewall can make strange noises that are hard to pinpoint.

07-02-2014, 10:47 PM	#29
daveymc29 BANNED Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,557	Re: Engine "Rattle" Just want to thank all you guys who pitched in, good advice, some humor and some thought provoking. The end result is there is a piece of babbitt mission in number four rod and the rear main shows some strange coloring. End play is .013+ so the engine is on the hook and will go to the rebuilder tomorrow or maybe later, but real soon. It has 20 to 25 thousand miles on it and I didn't do the rebuild. Looking inside some of it seems suspect such as one shim, .001 on one of the rods and all the rest started with .011 for a shim pack. I suspect the old boy I bought it from did a real good job of cleaning up an old engine and it made do without repairing the bearings. Must have adjusted what there was and that really wasn't all that bad. I have never babied it and didn't really expect to get the miles I did. Thanks for the input. Dave Mc Arthur

07-03-2014, 08:53 AM	#30
TDO Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Enterprise, WV. Posts: 460	Re: Engine "Rattle" How about your brake rods

07-03-2014, 10:04 AM	#31
Duffy1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mo. City , Texas Posts: 725	Re: Engine "Rattle" Mine did this . Timing to far advanced . Try retarding your spark lever a little bit and see if the rattle noise is reduced. I finally had to set my timing by ear which was more retarded than normal.

07-03-2014, 03:28 PM	#32
rocket1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Midland Park,N.J. Posts: 1,108	Re: Engine "Rattle" check the oil pump drive gear assy;could be badly worn.

07-05-2014, 02:51 AM	#33
norway Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: norway Posts: 40	Re: Engine "Rattle" my model a engine has 1,25 piston in it, (it is being overhauled). but i will use synders 5.5:1 head, when the engine is done. and i need ford model b head gasket that allow 1,25 piston. what can i use in model b gasket? if i had chosen to use Stock model a head, i can use felpro 7013C? __________________ i'm stuck in norway

07-05-2014, 07:39 AM	#34
tudoor Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 62	Re: Engine "Rattle" I had a rattle/vibration at mid speeds half throttle that drove me crazy and it came from the passenger side. Had the passenger hood open one time and had the throttle revved up and noticed the steel gas line vibrating as I revved it up! I slid a rubber hose and clamp over the line and it stopped my noise coming through the fire wall.