Update on my Radiator/Overheating Problem

[Tom Wesenberg]

Last fall I ran Cascade for 3 days, then pure white vinegar for 30 days, and this worked great to clean out the grease and most of the rust. I then installed a nylon drier sock to filter any more junk from going into the top tank. What I didn't realize was, as I was pushing the lock ring with nylon around it through the rubber hose, I was tearing the nylon so only a few threads were holding it in place. Everything was going great until the nylon finally tore loose and blocked off some tubes. This caused the coolant to fill up the top tank until it went out the overflow and the engine overheated.

I removed the radiator and back flushed it but no nylon came out. Today I borrowed a small inspection camera and was able to find it and pull it out with a bent wire. I'll have some pictures and more information later, but I should be good to go now.

[Tom Wesenberg]

About 10 years ago I bought this sump pump at a local garage sale for $5. I bought it as a spare, but used it today for the first time since I bought it. To backflush the radiator you need a large water flow, something a garden hose doesn't give. I filled a large tub with water and bought some platic fittings from Menards to push the water into the bottom of the radiator and out the top, which is upside down. You can see the water really flowed, as the second picture shows the water flowing over the side of the tub. I didn't have much junk in the radiator, still this is enough junk to plug about 6 tubes. I let the pump run for about 10 miutes during the backflushing.

Also shown is the small sink drain and scrub pad I bought at Walmart to act as a filter to guard against any future junk plugging the tops of the radiator tubes. The scrub pad needs to be unrolled to fit nicely into the hose. To show that this wasn't going to be too restrictive I put it in the top hose and connected it to the sump pump. There is just as much flow as not having the filter. Not shown is my thermostat, which will also be installed again.

[somethingspecial]

Great idea

[Mitch//pa]

good idea on the pump, not so sure on the screen/ filter set up. would rather see you use my pipe idea without the stat at about 1000 rpm's.
keep a close eye on that gizmo

[Tom Wesenberg]

Well, today I flushed out the block by using the sump pump. This morning I was undecided on whether it was going to be worth the effort. As you can see, it's a good thing I did it. I told Mark what I had in mind for the outlet to be bolted in place of the water pump, and he found just what I needed in his scrap metal pile and welded it together for me. I used my 2 1/4" shop vac hose for the outlet and duct taped it to the steel pipe. I had to dump the tub of water and rust 6 times before it was almost without rust flakes.

With each tub of clean water, I'd lift the pump in and out of the water a few times to cause pressure surges to help knock the rust out. Six times I also started the engine and ran it at the speed that gave the most vibration. This also help to knock out the rust. I show 5 of the tubs with the water dumped and the rust left behind. The 6th tub was about half of what is shown in the last picture. You can see that there was plenty of rust to plug the radiator several times over.

So, even if I spent several hunders of dollars on a new radiator or rodding it out, I still would have been right back where I started, had I not flushed the block. I'll bet radiator guys love people who run just water and create rust.

I put the car back together this afternoon and installed the sink drain and scrub pad in the top hose. I then added 2 1/2 gallons of pure white vinegar and went for a drive. Everything is great again, and should be for a long time. I'll leave the vinegar in until the first freeze, then I'll use 50% antifreeze.

This has certainly been a lesson on using an unknown engine. I've always pulled the pan to check for sludge, but from now on I'll turn the engine upside down on my engine stand and flush out the cooling system with my sump pump.

[Farrell In Vancouver]

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Like Panning for Gold!
Great info Tom and I like the plumbing you've designed to do this.
One block I recently cleaned up (before having it checked out at the shop) I got about 2.5 Lbs. of junk out of by using a coat hanger on a 14volt drill. You can bend the wire in various positions to scrape and loosen the rust out, and go through every opening in the jacket. I'll do this for about an hour, then dump the block upside down and put a long air nozzle in to blow out the debris. Amazing how much rust can be removed and still have enough iron to run an engine. The machine shop will tank it as well, but at least most of it is out before I take it in for a magnaflux and crack inspection.
I am quite impressed with your solution for the back-flushing and I think I use this on one engine thats been in a couple of years and see how much rust it's accumulated since it was cleaned out.
Thanks for the pix!

[Pinstripe]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

good idea on the pump, not so sure on the screen/ filter set up. would rather see you use my pipe idea without the stat at about 1000 rpm's.
keep a close eye on that gizmo

whats that?

[pat in Santa Cruz]

an old piece of speedometer cable works with a drill quite well. You can thread it in the small holes and between the cylinder blocks and the sides.

Originally Posted by Farrell In Vancouver

Like Panning for Gold!
Great info Tom and I like the plumbing you've designed to do this.
One block I recently cleaned up (before having it checked out at the shop) I got about 2.5 Lbs. of junk out of by using a coat hanger on a 14volt drill. You can bend the wire in various positions to scrape and loosen the rust out, and go through every opening in the jacket. I'll do this for about an hour, then dump the block upside down and put a long air nozzle in to blow out the debris. Amazing how much rust can be removed and still have enough iron to run an engine. The machine shop will tank it as well, but at least most of it is out before I take it in for a magnaflux and crack inspection.
I am quite impressed with your solution for the back-flushing and I think I use this on one engine thats been in a couple of years and see how much rust it's accumulated since it was cleaned out.
Thanks for the pix!

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Pinstripe

whats that?

read this
http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116966

[H. L. Chauvin]

Tom,

Thanks for posting this article & photos.

This is similar to what I suggested in reply #23 to Ray's post entitled: An Overheating Question -- A Minor Update.

I also posted same earlier after cleaning my gas tank with suction on the bottom of the tank thus forcing & circulating rapid water though my gas tank with an electric centrifugal pump.

If one looks at recent photos of Colorado flooding, fast moving water not only rapidly cut through compacted earth, but was also able to easily erode lime/cement stabilized compacted soil directly under asphalt flexible pavement used on highways.

"Fast" moving water causing rapid erosion is the key.

The fast moving Colorado river did a great job over the years of eroding & cutting through solid rock structures; fast moving water surely can work to remove 80 year old mineral deposits in radiator tube, & varnish, rust flakes, & peeling sealer in gas tanks, especially with the help of a cleanser such as POR 15 Marine Clean.

Your article & photos should help future Model A owners.

[ford3]

if you wnt to double the effectivness of back flushing your radiator and block, rig an adpter to inject air into the system, really creats alot of turbulence into the process to remove rust and scale

[George Miller]

Great idea Tom.

[gweilbaker]

Originally Posted by ford3

if you wnt to double the effectivness of back flushing your radiator and block, rig an adpter to inject air into the system, really creats alot of turbulence into the process to remove rust and scale

That's what the old service station use to do when my Dad would get his cars flushed.

[ford3]

an old trick for modern use, it really works

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

My basakwards flusher is EASY & CHEEP!
I use an expanding "plumber's helper" thingy that screws onto a garden hose. Take the return hose loose from the side of the engine, poke that thingy in the hose, make up a long 1/8" or 1/4" copper tubing on the end of your air blowgun & poke it in alongside the "plumber's helper" & turn the water on!! Blow & flush to your heart's content!!
(Of course, you probably figgered out, if you have a thermostat goody, TAKE IT OUT!) I've used this thing for years. Bill W.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by ford3

if you wnt to double the effectivness of back flushing your radiator and block, rig an adpter to inject air into the system, really creats alot of turbulence into the process to remove rust and scale

could get crafty with one of those aquarium air pumps, get one for a larger gallon tank and they move some air alrgiht.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Well, Mitch was right.
The scrub pad worked for only one day, then the heat and water pump pressure compacted it and a lttle junk made it too restrictive so the engine started to boil over. This afternoon I removed the filter and all is well again.
I'll still run vinegar until the first freeze, then drain it, flush it again, and run 50% antifreeze.