Am I out of touch with Reality?

[foxfire42]

I was perusing through the latest Hemmings today and enjoy looking at Auction Results. I know a lot of Auctions get frenzied so prices are not always a good barometer of reality however, I was really taken back by the Average Selling Price on a Model A. Here’s a brief description

1929 Model A Roadster
Restored #2 Well maintained and shiny
Minor wear and tear
Couple mismatched hub caps
Hydraulic brakes
Steering wheel scratches
AVG. Selling Price $ 45,000 < WOW!!

This might be more realistic if it were a 400A or Deluxe Phaeton . If this is an average some would have sold for more and others for less. I find it hard to believe this is the AVG for 29 Model A Roadsters

Perhaps my A's are a great investment after all.

[Patrick L.]

I think I'd sell mine for that.

[Purdy Swoft]

Some have more money than sense. We see this often when watching the Barrett Jackson auctions on TV .

[1931 flamingo]

All it takes is two people with a little (lot) of the devil's brew in them to get to that kind of price. JMO B/Jackson same thing, and I believe high rollers get the "brew" free.
Paul in CT

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I made this comment a few weeks ago that prices of cars has risen. I am of the opinion that most folks here are the last to admit it, but the cost to repair and/or restore has risen dramatically over the past few years, ...and even complete unrestored cars are well above $5k and many are approaching $10k for just a Model-A needing to be restored. Contrary to what some may want to believe, these cars are selling too.

.

[oliverguy]

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It's good to see in general the price of model A's increasing for the health of the hobby. This is not taking into account the crazy auction prices of two drunk idiots paying more than a car is worth. There will always be that.

I do notice that the price of Orphan makes is declining. Part availablity is a huge issue, along with the costs of custom machine work to keep them on the road. The only exception is brass era cars, but that's an entirely different subject.

It is much more cost effective to buy a car already restored or a nice unrestored one. I seem to get more enjoyment out of the latter, but I do have one restored car. A model A is still a lot more affordable than a 55 chevy, a mustang or flat head ford, and is really just as usable.

[28RPU]

I wouldn't put a lot of store in what supposedly sells on auction if its ebay. It could be friends bidding up the price. And just because its bid up to a certain price it doesn't mean that the guy ever paid that. I see some that supposedly sell only to be relisted for non payment.
I sold a car on there once several years ago and never heard from the guy again. I tried to find him for a year but then resold it for less.

[amdriven2liv]

I don't know what a 28 Model A Coupe would sell for not fully restored, but in Washington DMV, ours is worth $12,500. Sight unseen!

So, is this considered "high" ?

(Coupe in my avatar)

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by amdriven2liv

I don't know what a 28 Model A Coupe would sell for not fully restored, but in Washington DMV, ours is worth $12,500. Sight unseen!

So, is this considered "high" ?

(Coupe in my avatar)

Seems about right.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by oliverguy

I do notice that the price of Orphan makes is declining. Part availablity is a huge issue, along with the costs of custom machine work to keep them on the road. The only exception is brass era cars, but that's an entirely different subject.

It is much more cost effective to buy a car already restored or a nice unrestored one. I seem to get more enjoyment out of the latter, but I do have one restored car. A model A is still a lot more affordable than a 55 chevy, a mustang or flat head ford, and is really just as usable.

Brass-era has class! These guys do serious tours with primitive cars and their "finish ratio" on tours is pretty high considering their comparison to some 1930's "modern" cars. My wife and I are driving on a tour next year in Pennsylvania for only 1915 and older cars driving through the Amish country.

One perspective about your point in your last paragraph that probably should be mentioned is to many readers here, that is an accurate statement --but, I find for many that is not the most cost effective. You see, they buy a "restored" Model-A from a 'club member' and these cars wind up being a poor representation of 'restored'. In other words, many of these restored cars wont Start, Stop, nor Steer well and create stress for a hobbyist who chose to buy it for the fun it would give. Then after they have spent all the money to make the proper repairs (plus the initial investment), they generally will say they wish they would have just bought something needing a complete restoration so they could have done the restoration from the beginning. So often, most first-time Model-A buyers wind up purchasing a car that is someone else's problems.



.

[ronn]

Foxfire,
getting back to your point, you are correct. A #2 car is worth about half of what is being reported and although many on the Barn would like to think they can get 45k for their roadster, just ain't happenin!

And yes, 12,500. for a decent coupe is on the money.

[Uncle Bob]

Part of the trick is to figure out what is being measured. If you take a narrow enough view almost any "data" are correct. I suspect that the Hemmings view is very select, and not in concert with a much broader market picture. And there's human nature.........people often see what they want to see.

We see this every year around B-J time. Folks will whine and moan something along the lines that "B-J has ruined the market, driven up prices....blah blah". Some people actually believe that, put their "similar" car to one they saw on TV on the market at an astronomical price relative to it's condition/rarity/desirability/etc. and then get no response. If they need to sell, or want to badly enough, they have to keep dropping their price til they find the REAL market. B-J or any other auction house doesn't make a market, they just represent a small slice of the overall market (in a small bit of time as well). The old adage(s) revolving around willing buyer/willing seller still hold sway in the overall market (that's how old adages become old).

Brent's comments about the costs of restoration are a factor, but if we had the desire and mechanism to measure the broad market we'd probably see that those factors drive more people out of the market than they do bolster higher prices (as is the case for any product/commodity). But that info is only significant if growth of the hobby is the primary interest. Again, what do you want to see/measure?

[BobbyG]

Command higher prices outside USA - as smaller countries have less available .......and they don't make em anymore !

[eagle]

The title of your post says it all for me... Am I out of touch with Reality? I would prefer that the Model A hobby stays "cheap" as it has been in the past but it appears to not be going that way. I sometimes do wonder myself if I am out of touch with reality. If you really want a shocker, try to build an old-time lake cabin on a lake lot. Ever wonder why you don't see them anymore? The regs and rules allow only the rich to participate. I don't mean to take this off-topic but I hope there is always an "in" for the Model A lovers, regardless of the size of their bank account.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Brass-era has class! These guys do serious tours with primitive cars and their "finish ratio" on tours is pretty high considering their comparison to some 1930's "modern" cars. My wife and I are driving on a tour next year in Pennsylvania for only 1915 and older cars driving through the Amish country.
.

.

Brent - will this be the HCCA's "Brass in Berks County" tour ?


SC Frank

[dumb person]

About time prices went up a bit, particularly for a good car (as in good, not a paintjob held together with chewing gum) it has been half a century since you could buy one of these cars for $50 at any street corner. Some people might still think their car is worth the moon no matter how bad it is though.