The Ford Barn

Tim Armstrong · 11-01-2012, 04:21 PM

I have tried all day to install a new glass and regulater in my 37 Ford Flatback right quarter. I cannot see any way without cutting out the inner panel, somebody out there surley can let me in on the secret. Did the factory build the car around the glass ? Looks like you need 2 thumbs on your right hand at about the elbow!!!

THANKS FOR THE HELP....Too far along to junk it.

Well I finally got the glass in the quarter. I installed the window regulator and the metal channel for the glass together and then rolled the metal channel to the bottom of the window opening. I then filled the channel with urethane and dropped in the glass. Let it set over night and it works great.

Zeke...PA · 11-01-2012, 05:29 PM

I'll await that answer also, as I broke both glasses getting them out, but they were bad. Zeke

mike42 · 11-01-2012, 05:32 PM

Tim I had the same problem with my 40 sedan. I have no idea how they did this on the assembly line. I worked on it for 3 weeks to get it into the regulator.. I never did and will wait to try again next summer. You can't see a damn thing in there ! I just made it a stationary window for right now. I had a dozen on the Barn helping me to, but it would not go in.

DICK SPADARO · 11-01-2012, 06:16 PM

You will need additional help to do this. Now If I remember correctly.The window glass is installed by inserting the front edge of the glass into the window opening slot at an angle of about 45* from the outside and lowering it as far down and forward as possible until the rear edge clears the rear opening and then rotating to level as you raise the glass.

As you rotate the glass make sure that the edge of the glass catches into the felt window tracks. Once in the tracks hand slide the glass up and down to make sure there are no binds.

The window riser is left loose in the bottom of the quarter panel and adjusted into position with the arms upright. With the glass lowered in the opening to expose the glass track install the riser thru the openings of glass track guides. Lift the glass upward as an assembly to bring the regulator in position with the winder access hole and align all the screw holes. You may have to crank the regulator downward to lower the window slightly to get the screw to index.

hope · 11-01-2012, 06:52 PM

I have recently done the same on my 40 tudor. Its hard to explain but onething for sure is : You have to have a LOT of patience". And when you get really frustrated walk away for a while or next day.

A couple of things i did that was not mentionned when i was looking for help was: one: i use a mirrior layed on the floor to look at the bottom opening with a drop light wedjed in there.
And two: I cut a circular hole about 2 1/2" just about where the bottom of the window track meets the cranck roller.
Once i had the rear roller in the track the rest was'nt all that bad.

This was done with the window up, and what i think what saved my sanity was to leave the window cranck (mechanisim) real LOOSE with only one bolt holding it so that i could mouve it.
Now having said all this i have to admit that i cracked the first one on the bottom corner about 2", got that covered with a dacal from Bonneville.

Found out the hard way that it cracked because i did'nt remember how it went back in. I was trying to hook the big cam on the cranck to the pin on the bottom of the glass the wrong way, and it was wedjed in the opening real hard and i tryed to force it and that's a no no.

rgtharley · 11-01-2012, 08:11 PM

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Tim,
Not that it will help with your car a lot, but earlier this year, I replaced all the glass in my 35 Tudor, and as a machinist/engineer with 40 years of practical experience, I was ready to set the car on fire more than one time.( Translation: I thought I was lots smarter than I am!) I had to keep walking away, and come back with a fresh look, analyzing each way I tried to install the windows. As Dick mentioned, they have to be installed at an angle, then rotated, then lowered at an angle again to get them in the guide track. I installed the regulators last, and worked the rollers into the window rail by winding and unwinding the regulator. I still have one rear that doesn't close 100%, and over the winter, I will take that one apart and "adjust" it. Have patience, and ask for help. Don't be tempted to cut the inner panel all to pieces, even though it does seem as if Ford built the cars around the window glass!!

Good Luck!
Bob T

Tim Armstrong · 11-01-2012, 09:35 PM

With the glass all the way down it rests on the rear wheel whell, and is not far enough down to let me slide in the rollers. You just cannot see up and in to get the roller in. Do you leave the roller hanging down past the lower inside sheet metal until you get the rollers in the track ?

rgtharley · 11-02-2012, 08:29 PM

If I remember correctly, I did leave the regulator mechanism hanging below the inside sheet metal, and I had to pull out with all my weight (towards the inside of the car) to get the regulator back up inside the inner sheet metal after getting the rollers in the track. The doors weren't so bad, but the quarter windows were a challenge. I finally did get both of them in, and with all new window channel too. I bought all my glass from Saunders, and it matched perfectly to the glass I removed, so I know the size was correct. I may have even left the new channel loose while I wrestled with the glass. You need every 1/8" you can get.

john worden · 11-02-2012, 10:30 PM

The lift mechanism must be in perfect working order with the friction points lubricated. Bench test it before putting it in the car. Loosely mount the mechanism in the car. Crank the lift arms/rollers to the upmost position. This is where you introduce the rollers into the channels one at a time watching it through the hole just below the window sill. Start each roller while very slowly cranking the arms away from each other and down slightly. When both rollers are properly tracking in the channels continue cranking window down until you can observe through another small hole a few inches frontward of the first hole a threaded hole in the channel. Stop cranking now and screw in a screw that will prevent the roller from desengaging the channel. Once you are happy with the movement of the glass start tightening the mechanism mount screws. A helper standing outside the car holding the glass is a good idea. John

Tim Armstrong · 11-04-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I have tried all day to install a new glass and regulater in my 37 Ford Flatback right quarter. I cannot see any way without cutting out the inner panel, somebody out there surley can let me in on the secret. Did the factory build the car around the glass ? Looks like you need 2 thumbs on your right hand at about the elbow!!!

THANKS FOR THE HELP....Too fat along to junk it.

Thanks John that works, got it all together and rolled up and down twice and the regulator gear stripped. Well at least I know how to do it next time !!!

Tim Armstrong · 12-01-2012, 10:14 PM

UPDATE...Got my new glass cut [ 2nd one ] I installed a 46 quarter window regulator with the glass channel installed on the regulator. INstalled all the screws and cranked the glass channel to the top just before it starts to move back. I put expoxy in the metal channel and installed the glass into the channel. It worked great.

Tim Armstrong · 12-03-2012, 07:33 PM

Well I finally got the glass in the quarter. I installed the window regulator and the metal channel for the glass together and then rolled the metal channel to the bottom of the window opening. I then filled the channel with urethane and dropped in the glass. Let it set over night and it works great.

Inherited40tudor · 12-04-2012, 09:18 PM

I tried this on my '40 Tudor and it seemed to work well:

Install anti-rattle "whiskers" in sheet metal around window opening. (you will also install them on the Garnish Molding) I've heard that earlier models use screws and later models use push clips that the whiskers snap into and the moldings often use round staples. Drake has EXCELLENT reproduction clips and original-style round staples. Their full window channel kits sell quickly but you can buy clips and staples separately.

Install vertical Felt "U" channels on the B pillar and against the wheel well inside the compartment panel. These must be straight and a good fit. The back one has a tab at the top that slides down in a slot to hold it in place and the front has a nail or screw at the top that holds it in place. They both have a tab at the bottom of the steel channel that bends over to hold the bottom part in place. Roy Nacewicz at: http://www.fordscript.com/ has the special "Threaded" nails and any other nuts and bolts you will ever need.
The front "U" channel has another rubber and felt coated metal strip attached to it running up into the space between the Garnish Molding and sheet metal that cushions the glass when it's closed. I have no idea where to get this. I cleaned mine off and rubberized it and attached felt myself. The Vintique felt kit comes with a stick-on roll of black felt.

Now to the glass:

Using a rubber mallet, set the glass in the window lift channel with window tape (Steele Rubber products in Denver, NC has it by the foot and it's very close to early versions with cork embedded. Here is a link for the Setting Tape: https://dealer.steelerubber.com/Ecom....aspx?IID=6671 Some use epoxy or urethane to set the glass, but I prefer the original tape method. It allows for easy removal later if needed.

When placing channel on the glass, the tab portion with the stud on the lift channel is closest to the B Pillar, towards the front of the car. The "U" channel track faces in towards the passenger compartment.

Install regulator loosely with all screws in slotted holes. Crank regulator "up" until two rollers touch each other at the top. (You'll be able to see them through the round hole "window" present in the sheet metal)

From the inside of the car, put the glass with channel lift down in the channel opening, resting horizontally on the two rollers. Looking through the hole in the sheet metal, you will see the rollers are close to the division in the "U" shaped track.

Slowly crank "roll" the regulator down. The rollers will begin to separate.

Reach in the hole and pull the back roller toward you enough that it does not go in the back portion of the "U" channel but so that it slides along the outer edge instead. This keeps the window from moving up and down.

Position the front roller just at the opening of the front portion of the "U" channel until the washer is just moving onto the outside of the track.

Push the front roller away from you (assuming you're sitting inside the car) and continue to crank the regulator. This will engage the stud portion of the regulator roller into the "U"channel and the washer will be pressed against the outside of the channel, holding it in place with the spring. The back roller will continue going back, not engaging in the track.

Crank far enough for the front roller to clear the threaded hole in the "U" channel.

Install roller stop screw in the hole in the front section of "U" channel. This keeps the roller from coming out again.
Crank regulator in the opposite direction. This will bring the rollers back towards each other but the front roller will now stay in the "U" channel. At the top of the regulator travel, the back roller will fall within or close to the gap in the front and back "U" channels. You may have to pry gently with a screwdriver to get it in place.

Position the back roller at the opening of the back "U" channel and crank regulator in the opposite direction. Push the stud away from you as you did before on the front roller. You may need to pull on the washer a little to get it to the outside of the channel. As you crank, the back roller should engage the "U" channel.

You can then adjust the travel as necessary.

I hope this VERY long explanation will be helpful to some of you. I am a novice, but this is what worked best for me. Good luck and feel free to give me feedback!

mike42 · 12-05-2012, 03:14 AM

Wow...... Can you imagine doing this on the assembly line at 60 jobs an hour ? Unreal !

Good write up.

Thx

Mike

john worden · 12-05-2012, 04:08 PM

After doing a few with new parts I could see it going fairly quickly

Inherited40tudor · 12-05-2012, 10:58 PM

The write-up took longer than the first side install! Second side, I wasn't so lucky! Close quarters, etc. I discovered that if you lubricate the "rollers" too much (really studs, not rollers) they will slide too much in the channel and not pull the window forward as well to recover from using the smokers position. Go figure!

11-01-2012, 05:29 PM	#2
Zeke...PA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Delta, PA Posts: 525	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install I'll await that answer also, as I broke both glasses getting them out, but they were bad. Zeke __________________ Only problem with retirement is never a day off

11-01-2012, 05:32 PM	#3
mike42 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Gaylord, Michigan Posts: 1,618	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install Tim I had the same problem with my 40 sedan. I have no idea how they did this on the assembly line. I worked on it for 3 weeks to get it into the regulator.. I never did and will wait to try again next summer. You can't see a damn thing in there ! I just made it a stationary window for right now. I had a dozen on the Barn helping me to, but it would not go in.

11-01-2012, 06:16 PM	#4
DICK SPADARO Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Altamont, NY Posts: 1,004	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install You will need additional help to do this. Now If I remember correctly.The window glass is installed by inserting the front edge of the glass into the window opening slot at an angle of about 45* from the outside and lowering it as far down and forward as possible until the rear edge clears the rear opening and then rotating to level as you raise the glass. As you rotate the glass make sure that the edge of the glass catches into the felt window tracks. Once in the tracks hand slide the glass up and down to make sure there are no binds. The window riser is left loose in the bottom of the quarter panel and adjusted into position with the arms upright. With the glass lowered in the opening to expose the glass track install the riser thru the openings of glass track guides. Lift the glass upward as an assembly to bring the regulator in position with the winder access hole and align all the screw holes. You may have to crank the regulator downward to lower the window slightly to get the screw to index. __________________ dickspadaro.com

11-01-2012, 06:52 PM	#5
hope Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: warwick Rhode Island Posts: 464	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install I have recently done the same on my 40 tudor. Its hard to explain but onething for sure is : You have to have a LOT of patience". And when you get really frustrated walk away for a while or next day. A couple of things i did that was not mentionned when i was looking for help was: one: i use a mirrior layed on the floor to look at the bottom opening with a drop light wedjed in there. And two: I cut a circular hole about 2 1/2" just about where the bottom of the window track meets the cranck roller. Once i had the rear roller in the track the rest was'nt all that bad. This was done with the window up, and what i think what saved my sanity was to leave the window cranck (mechanisim) real LOOSE with only one bolt holding it so that i could mouve it. Now having said all this i have to admit that i cracked the first one on the bottom corner about 2", got that covered with a dacal from Bonneville. Found out the hard way that it cracked because i did'nt remember how it went back in. I was trying to hook the big cam on the cranck to the pin on the bottom of the glass the wrong way, and it was wedjed in the opening real hard and i tryed to force it and that's a no no.

11-01-2012, 08:11 PM	#6
rgtharley Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New Windsor, MD Posts: 139	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Tim, Not that it will help with your car a lot, but earlier this year, I replaced all the glass in my 35 Tudor, and as a machinist/engineer with 40 years of practical experience, I was ready to set the car on fire more than one time.( Translation: I thought I was lots smarter than I am!) I had to keep walking away, and come back with a fresh look, analyzing each way I tried to install the windows. As Dick mentioned, they have to be installed at an angle, then rotated, then lowered at an angle again to get them in the guide track. I installed the regulators last, and worked the rollers into the window rail by winding and unwinding the regulator. I still have one rear that doesn't close 100%, and over the winter, I will take that one apart and "adjust" it. Have patience, and ask for help. Don't be tempted to cut the inner panel all to pieces, even though it does seem as if Ford built the cars around the window glass!! Good Luck! Bob T

11-01-2012, 09:35 PM	#7
Tim Armstrong Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 361	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install With the glass all the way down it rests on the rear wheel whell, and is not far enough down to let me slide in the rollers. You just cannot see up and in to get the roller in. Do you leave the roller hanging down past the lower inside sheet metal until you get the rollers in the track ?

11-02-2012, 08:29 PM	#8
rgtharley Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New Windsor, MD Posts: 139	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install If I remember correctly, I did leave the regulator mechanism hanging below the inside sheet metal, and I had to pull out with all my weight (towards the inside of the car) to get the regulator back up inside the inner sheet metal after getting the rollers in the track. The doors weren't so bad, but the quarter windows were a challenge. I finally did get both of them in, and with all new window channel too. I bought all my glass from Saunders, and it matched perfectly to the glass I removed, so I know the size was correct. I may have even left the new channel loose while I wrestled with the glass. You need every 1/8" you can get.

11-02-2012, 10:30 PM	#9
john worden Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: central Iowa Posts: 484	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install The lift mechanism must be in perfect working order with the friction points lubricated. Bench test it before putting it in the car. Loosely mount the mechanism in the car. Crank the lift arms/rollers to the upmost position. This is where you introduce the rollers into the channels one at a time watching it through the hole just below the window sill. Start each roller while very slowly cranking the arms away from each other and down slightly. When both rollers are properly tracking in the channels continue cranking window down until you can observe through another small hole a few inches frontward of the first hole a threaded hole in the channel. Stop cranking now and screw in a screw that will prevent the roller from desengaging the channel. Once you are happy with the movement of the glass start tightening the mechanism mount screws. A helper standing outside the car holding the glass is a good idea. John __________________ Louvering, bias ply tire-truing, metal shaping and forming, lathe and mill work, member shop HAGERTY Ins. expert repair network. High quality paint work in Iowa.

12-01-2012, 10:14 PM	#11
Tim Armstrong Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 361	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install UPDATE...Got my new glass cut [ 2nd one ] I installed a 46 quarter window regulator with the glass channel installed on the regulator. INstalled all the screws and cranked the glass channel to the top just before it starts to move back. I put expoxy in the metal channel and installed the glass into the channel. It worked great.

12-03-2012, 07:33 PM	#12
Tim Armstrong Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 361	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install Well I finally got the glass in the quarter. I installed the window regulator and the metal channel for the glass together and then rolled the metal channel to the bottom of the window opening. I then filled the channel with urethane and dropped in the glass. Let it set over night and it works great.

12-04-2012, 09:18 PM	#13
Inherited40tudor Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install I tried this on my '40 Tudor and it seemed to work well: Install anti-rattle "whiskers" in sheet metal around window opening. (you will also install them on the Garnish Molding) I've heard that earlier models use screws and later models use push clips that the whiskers snap into and the moldings often use round staples. Drake has EXCELLENT reproduction clips and original-style round staples. Their full window channel kits sell quickly but you can buy clips and staples separately. Install vertical Felt "U" channels on the B pillar and against the wheel well inside the compartment panel. These must be straight and a good fit. The back one has a tab at the top that slides down in a slot to hold it in place and the front has a nail or screw at the top that holds it in place. They both have a tab at the bottom of the steel channel that bends over to hold the bottom part in place. Roy Nacewicz at: http://www.fordscript.com/ has the special "Threaded" nails and any other nuts and bolts you will ever need. The front "U" channel has another rubber and felt coated metal strip attached to it running up into the space between the Garnish Molding and sheet metal that cushions the glass when it's closed. I have no idea where to get this. I cleaned mine off and rubberized it and attached felt myself. The Vintique felt kit comes with a stick-on roll of black felt. Now to the glass: Using a rubber mallet, set the glass in the window lift channel with window tape (Steele Rubber products in Denver, NC has it by the foot and it's very close to early versions with cork embedded. Here is a link for the Setting Tape: https://dealer.steelerubber.com/Ecom....aspx?IID=6671 Some use epoxy or urethane to set the glass, but I prefer the original tape method. It allows for easy removal later if needed. When placing channel on the glass, the tab portion with the stud on the lift channel is closest to the B Pillar, towards the front of the car. The "U" channel track faces in towards the passenger compartment. Install regulator loosely with all screws in slotted holes. Crank regulator "up" until two rollers touch each other at the top. (You'll be able to see them through the round hole "window" present in the sheet metal) From the inside of the car, put the glass with channel lift down in the channel opening, resting horizontally on the two rollers. Looking through the hole in the sheet metal, you will see the rollers are close to the division in the "U" shaped track. Slowly crank "roll" the regulator down. The rollers will begin to separate. Reach in the hole and pull the back roller toward you enough that it does not go in the back portion of the "U" channel but so that it slides along the outer edge instead. This keeps the window from moving up and down. Position the front roller just at the opening of the front portion of the "U" channel until the washer is just moving onto the outside of the track. Push the front roller away from you (assuming you're sitting inside the car) and continue to crank the regulator. This will engage the stud portion of the regulator roller into the "U"channel and the washer will be pressed against the outside of the channel, holding it in place with the spring. The back roller will continue going back, not engaging in the track. Crank far enough for the front roller to clear the threaded hole in the "U" channel. Install roller stop screw in the hole in the front section of "U" channel. This keeps the roller from coming out again. Crank regulator in the opposite direction. This will bring the rollers back towards each other but the front roller will now stay in the "U" channel. At the top of the regulator travel, the back roller will fall within or close to the gap in the front and back "U" channels. You may have to pry gently with a screwdriver to get it in place. Position the back roller at the opening of the back "U" channel and crank regulator in the opposite direction. Push the stud away from you as you did before on the front roller. You may need to pull on the washer a little to get it to the outside of the channel. As you crank, the back roller should engage the "U" channel. You can then adjust the travel as necessary. I hope this VERY long explanation will be helpful to some of you. I am a novice, but this is what worked best for me. Good luck and feel free to give me feedback! Last edited by Inherited40tudor; 12-04-2012 at 11:28 PM.

12-05-2012, 03:14 AM	#14
mike42 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Gaylord, Michigan Posts: 1,618	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install Wow...... Can you imagine doing this on the assembly line at 60 jobs an hour ? Unreal ! Good write up. Thx Mike

12-05-2012, 04:08 PM	#15
john worden Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: central Iowa Posts: 484	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install After doing a few with new parts I could see it going fairly quickly __________________ Louvering, bias ply tire-truing, metal shaping and forming, lathe and mill work, member shop HAGERTY Ins. expert repair network. High quality paint work in Iowa.

12-05-2012, 10:58 PM	#16
Inherited40tudor Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23	Re: HELP..Quarter window regulater & glass install The write-up took longer than the first side install! Second side, I wasn't so lucky! Close quarters, etc. I discovered that if you lubricate the "rollers" too much (really studs, not rollers) they will slide too much in the channel and not pull the window forward as well to recover from using the smokers position. Go figure!