The Ford Barn

jiffy · 09-19-2012, 01:46 PM

I timed my Model A by the book and I did not get that great Model A exaust sound, So I retarded the timing about 5% and it sounds great. But can that hurt the babbit firing 5% early from TDC. Thanks for the info. John

newshirt · 09-19-2012, 02:52 PM

Consider asking another person to drive the car while you stand next to the road as they drive by. You might find that the car has the sound you desire, even when timed properly. They sound differently from the outside.

ctlikon0712 · 09-19-2012, 04:26 PM

If you retarded the timing you aren't firing earlier you are firing later (less advance). So that is less stress on the Babbit...... So, the answer is no.

Duffy1 · 09-19-2012, 04:41 PM

What can happen if you run it retarded like this ?

newshirt · 09-19-2012, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duffy1

What can happen if you run it retarded like this ?

I believe two things will happen: 1. You'll have less power. 2. The engine will get hotter.

Here's a guess at why retarded engines run hotter. (Experts, feel free to correct!) When retarded, more cylinder wall is exposed to the flame because the piston has traveled farther down when the ignition finally occurs. Heat is then transfered to the coolant. If ignition extends beyond the compression chamber where it is designed to remain, everything else gets hotter -- valves, rings, piston, head.

2manycars · 09-19-2012, 05:24 PM

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The big question is do you want to drive the car, or listen to it idle? If you want to drive it, time it correctly, and enjoy the drive. If you just want to listen, set the timing where the sound pleases you best.

Richard Wilson · 09-19-2012, 06:17 PM

I knew a man with an AACA national show Model A who liked to let his engine idle VERY slow at the shows. He had the timing so retarded that you could count each cylinder firing. Everybody loved the sound. He never drove the Model A except off and on the trailer. That was one of the nicest and one of the most useless Model A's I have ever seen. No way it could have been driven on a tour with his "show" tuneup.

raprice · 09-19-2012, 07:56 PM

It's my understanding that if you run your engine in the retarded mode, it may put unacceptable stress on your crankshaft. I knew this to be true in Model Ts. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this.
Rog

Duffy1 · 09-19-2012, 09:25 PM

Thanks for the response gentlemen .

columbiA · 09-19-2012, 10:48 PM

If you dont have the correct muffler or have a higher comp head and/or reground cam,it will affect the sound. retarded timing will put less stress on the crankshaft but will make the engine run hotter & have less power.Set the timing exactly the way its supposed to be and you will have the best performance.Do you want to use the car or listen to the retarded timing?

jiffy · 09-20-2012, 11:22 AM

Thanks for all the comments. I really do want the best running engine. I also want it to soung like a Model A should/ And most do sound the same. Mine was quieter and there was some concern that it was not running correctly. Sounds good now. I will keep a watch on it. Thanks, John

2manycars · 09-20-2012, 01:24 PM

The "model A sound" that many of us are accustomed to is false. It is loud and tinny, caused by the cheap, incorrectly and poorly made repro mufflers we have been using for 30 or 40 years. A model A fitted with an Aries muffler will sound like a model A did when new, but will not sound like the "model A sound" most are accustomed to. It is quiet, and runs cool. It is all a matter of what you want. If sound is most important, the cheap midas muffler is the one to have. I have thrown away several in the past few years.

Duffy1 · 09-20-2012, 07:40 PM

Will running retarded cause carbon to build up ?
Thanks

Tom Wesenberg · 09-21-2012, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duffy1

Will running retarded cause carbon to build up ?
Thanks

Probably not. I have noticed that since the lead was no longer added to fuel the plugs and pistons don't have all the deposits they used to have.

Retarded timing will cause loss of power, poor fuel economy and overheating.

Duffy1 · 09-21-2012, 04:19 PM

Thanks Tom .

BILL WILLIAMSON · 09-21-2012, 05:49 PM

Tuning for sound????? The ACID test to know if timing is correct: Adjust carb idle speed nice & slow, adjust idle mixture screw for best & smoothest idle with spark retarded THEN, on retarded idle, it should run rythmical, like tada, tada, tada, tada! On 1/2 advance, idle will be faster & smooth. On full advance, idle will be faster still, but a slightly rolling idle. If you have these sounds, DON'T MESS WITH IT! ITS AS PERFECT AS YOU WILL GET IT!!
Timing only changes if your point gap closes up, then reset the point gap correctly, and timing will be correct again.
Don't listen to too many timing "tales" as there are many that don't know "doodley" about what works properly! Bill W.

09-19-2012, 01:46 PM	#1
jiffy Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 34	Timing a Model A I timed my Model A by the book and I did not get that great Model A exaust sound, So I retarded the timing about 5% and it sounds great. But can that hurt the babbit firing 5% early from TDC. Thanks for the info. John

09-19-2012, 02:52 PM	#2
newshirt Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 868	Re: Timing a Model A Consider asking another person to drive the car while you stand next to the road as they drive by. You might find that the car has the sound you desire, even when timed properly. They sound differently from the outside. __________________ Ray White

09-19-2012, 04:26 PM	#3
ctlikon0712 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Cocoa, Florida Posts: 1,609	Re: Timing a Model A If you retarded the timing you aren't firing earlier you are firing later (less advance). So that is less stress on the Babbit...... So, the answer is no. __________________ Wanted: Simmons Super Power Head Craig Likon 1931 150B

09-19-2012, 04:41 PM	#4
Duffy1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mo. City , Texas Posts: 725	Re: Timing a Model A What can happen if you run it retarded like this ?

09-19-2012, 05:24 PM	#6
2manycars Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern CT Posts: 2,732	Re: Timing a Model A Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The big question is do you want to drive the car, or listen to it idle? If you want to drive it, time it correctly, and enjoy the drive. If you just want to listen, set the timing where the sound pleases you best.

09-19-2012, 06:17 PM	#7
Richard Wilson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 908	Re: Timing a Model A I knew a man with an AACA national show Model A who liked to let his engine idle VERY slow at the shows. He had the timing so retarded that you could count each cylinder firing. Everybody loved the sound. He never drove the Model A except off and on the trailer. That was one of the nicest and one of the most useless Model A's I have ever seen. No way it could have been driven on a tour with his "show" tuneup.

09-19-2012, 07:56 PM	#8
raprice Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Elwood, NY Posts: 299	Re: Timing a Model A It's my understanding that if you run your engine in the retarded mode, it may put unacceptable stress on your crankshaft. I knew this to be true in Model Ts. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this. Rog

09-19-2012, 09:25 PM	#9
Duffy1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mo. City , Texas Posts: 725	Re: Timing a Model A Thanks for the response gentlemen .

09-19-2012, 10:48 PM	#10
columbiA Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,746	Re: Timing a Model A If you dont have the correct muffler or have a higher comp head and/or reground cam,it will affect the sound. retarded timing will put less stress on the crankshaft but will make the engine run hotter & have less power.Set the timing exactly the way its supposed to be and you will have the best performance.Do you want to use the car or listen to the retarded timing?

09-20-2012, 11:22 AM	#11
jiffy Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 34	Re: Timing a Model A Thanks for all the comments. I really do want the best running engine. I also want it to soung like a Model A should/ And most do sound the same. Mine was quieter and there was some concern that it was not running correctly. Sounds good now. I will keep a watch on it. Thanks, John

09-20-2012, 01:24 PM	#12
2manycars Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern CT Posts: 2,732	Re: Timing a Model A The "model A sound" that many of us are accustomed to is false. It is loud and tinny, caused by the cheap, incorrectly and poorly made repro mufflers we have been using for 30 or 40 years. A model A fitted with an Aries muffler will sound like a model A did when new, but will not sound like the "model A sound" most are accustomed to. It is quiet, and runs cool. It is all a matter of what you want. If sound is most important, the cheap midas muffler is the one to have. I have thrown away several in the past few years.

09-20-2012, 07:40 PM	#13
Duffy1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mo. City , Texas Posts: 725	Re: Timing a Model A Will running retarded cause carbon to build up ? Thanks

09-21-2012, 04:19 PM	#15
Duffy1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mo. City , Texas Posts: 725	Re: Timing a Model A Thanks Tom .

09-21-2012, 05:49 PM	#16
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Timing a Model A Tuning for sound????? The ACID test to know if timing is correct: Adjust carb idle speed nice & slow, adjust idle mixture screw for best & smoothest idle with spark retarded THEN, on retarded idle, it should run rythmical, like tada, tada, tada, tada! On 1/2 advance, idle will be faster & smooth. On full advance, idle will be faster still, but a slightly rolling idle. If you have these sounds, DON'T MESS WITH IT! ITS AS PERFECT AS YOU WILL GET IT!! Timing only changes if your point gap closes up, then reset the point gap correctly, and timing will be correct again. Don't listen to too many timing "tales" as there are many that don't know "doodley" about what works properly! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"