Restoration Qs...Shackle's

[d.j. moordigian]

This question is a " Fine Point question ". In the photo below, are high
dollar very early 28 double Ford script shackle's, they are also VERY worn.
For the past 3-4 years I have thought about HOW to repair shackle's. The
only way I can see is, weld them up with a TIG, then turn them between
centers, with a dog and a long boring bar. Anybody out there repaired
shackle's and how?

[d.j. moordigian]

Try this again.........

[Kevin in NJ]

A milling machine with a holding jig and a cutter that goes around was one thought.

Then I wondered about a deep hole saw for metal.

You will have issues with the weld shrinking the inside edge and causing them to bend inwards or at least that is my guess.

On the other hand, they do not have to be a perfect surface. They need to be smooth enough not to wear out the bushing too fast. So maybe weld them up and grind them close enough?

So these were my thoughts I had when looking at my original worn rears.

But then I bought an incomplete spring with a cruddy shackle. Turns out the shackle was a very good original. Later I picked up another good used original so I got lucky.

What about making a mold of the original script ends. Then use some later originals and JB weld to mold the script you need on good shackles?

[dave in australia]

These are highly important suspension parts, I would be very careful in welding any suspension part, as in getting are certified welder to do it, if your not one yourself.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by dave in australia

These are highly important suspension parts, I would be very careful in welding any suspension part, as in getting are certified welder to do it, if your not one yourself.

Dave,
I've known Dudley for 40+ years, he's an amazing, knowledgable, welder, machinest, and fabricator!! He can fix anything except a broken HEART. Bill W.

[gunmetal blue]

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Weld it up, then use a brigeport mill with a rotating table.

[Doug Clayton]

I bought the pair of double script shackles that were on ebay recently. My plan is exactly as pointed out by Kevin - make a silicone mold from the original then use the mold and JB weld to make new scripts on NOS shackles.

I don't like welding these parts because they are hardened steel and will be annealed by the welding process. Just my opinion!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Doug Clayton

I bought the pair of double script shackles that were on ebay recently. My plan is exactly as pointed out by Kevin - make a silicone mold from the original then use the mold and JB weld to make new scripts on NOS shackles.

I don't like welding these parts because they are hardened steel and will be annealed by the welding process. Just my opinion!

Doug, asking a metalurgy question, can a piece that has been heat-treated once ever be (re)heat-treated again? In this instance, after they have been annealed by the welding process, could they be heat treated again with any reliability?

.

[Doug Clayton]

Yes, they can. However, you must know the original material and heat treating process. The weld rod must be the same as the parent material (not always easy to find). Then in most cases you can repeat the original heat treating process.
The whole process will result in some distortion and minor changes in grain structure. For the Model A, I don't think these would be too serious. In the case of the shackles, I find the JB weld process much easier (and safer).

[Craig Lewis]

I did what's being described with the shackles on my coupe.
I built up the surface with a mig welder and machined them down in a lathe (using a rather precarious looking setup)...but it worked.
When finished I surface hardened them with a product called Casenite.
I usually like to show pictures, but I think those ones were lost in the "big crash".
Will keep looking and post if I find them.
If someone wants more details, ask, and I'll try to help.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Craig Lewis

I did what's being described with the shackles on my coupe.
I built up the surface with a mig welder and machined them down in a lathe (using a rather precarious looking setup)...but it worked.
When finished I surface hardened them with a product called Casenite.
I usually like to show pictures, but I think those ones were lost in the "big crash".
Will keep looking and post if I find them.
If someone wants more details, ask, and I'll try to help.

Yeah, I'll step up. I initially looked at a lathe and thought I realized that it wasn't gonna happen simply because even it I chucked up on the threaded area and tried to use a live center on the other end, the two issues I thought I was gonna have was the hole for the live center (grease fitting hole) was off-set on the spring hangers I wanted to repair, and even if I were to use a boring bar to make the cuts, I could not find enough room for my carriage to travel even with my tailstock completely extended. That is why I just turned around to my Bridgeport and thought a boring head on it would be better.


Ohh and Doug, I am truly disappointed to hear you would stoop so low as to use silicone to mould that script out of JB epoxy. It's not the use of the JB that has me disappointed, ...its that you haven't already written a program on your CNC mill where after a 'glob' of JB Weld had dried on the shackle you could machine the Ford script into the JB Weld!!

.

[d.j. moordigian]

Craig,

That's very much the way I saw it, right down to the Casenite!

Brent,
Go easy now.....I thought about that last night....but with silicon bronze weld
in the CNC mill!

Thanks to the Guy's that posted, especially Doug (you to Bill ), for the " fix ".

Dudley

[Bob C]

I don't know if all boring heads are the same but the one I have the head screws on to the shank. If you turn the boring bar around to cut the outside of something and run the mill in reverse as soon as you start the cut the head unscrews and falls on the floor, ask me how I know.

Bob

[Glenn C.]

IMHO if you intend on welding at all on those shackles, please request the services of help from your worst enemy to release the pressure from the spring spreader during installation. If you still have your heart in the endevor, at least wear safety goggles, face mask and heavy leather gloves.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Glenn C.

IMHO if you intend on welding at all on those shackles, please request the services of help from your worst enemy to release the pressure from the spring spreader during installation. If you still have your heart in the endevor, at least wear safety goggles, face mask and heavy leather gloves.

Glenn, with all due respect meant in my question, would this be something that you know would happen, --feel like could happen, ...or something that in your mind possibly has a chance of happening??

Why I am asking is I don't have first-hand experience either way however I would like to try, and if you have first-hand experience that this definitely will not work, I am very receptive to hearing what you are saying however surely you understand why I do not wish to 'not attempt' something that is indeed do-able solely because of someone's opinion that it might not work.



BTW, I was recently at another individual's shop who many here hold within very high regard in his abilities, and he has a stack of about 60 original shackles that he will be attempting to repair in the future. He & I briefly discussed how he was going to restore those and his method very much aligned with the "thinking" posted above. With a set of nice useable rear shackles bringing over $250 a set, and NOS rears bringing nearly double that amount, there is a valid reason to at least make an attempt to restore shackles as long as it can be done with favorable results.

.

.

[Craig Lewis]

Keep in mind the shackles are securely bolted together & supported by the end bar, even if they do crack. This takes most of the stress out of the equation although I'll certainly check my welded/rebuilt ones on a regular basis once the car is in everyday use.
My shop has been extremely busy which consumes my days, but I'll keep looking for the pictures of the lathe setup. I still have the support bar so maybe I can mockup the setup in my lathe again and give you guys something to flame

[plind]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

Try this again.........

I missed thoose to on ebay . about a week ago....Did you by it.???

[v bogart]

Bob: I have solved that problem using a left-hand tool , You can buy one
or easily make one.

[Glenn C.]

Brent, sometime back in postings on the fordbarn....someone posted pictures of repo shackles that had fractured during installation. Granted original shackles should not be compared with original shackles as far as metakurgy is concerned, but I just have a hard time dealing with the fact of welding on any forged component, that even momentarily during installation could fracture, possibly ruining someones day. Possibly for ever. I am not a metalurgical engineer, but I am cautious about the possibility of upsetting the molecular structure of forged components by welding, and heat treatment to original specs. At the end of the day.....does a points car really mean that much ?

[Rowdy]

With what those brought it looks like I need to dig out the 2 or 3 well worn sets I have. Trying to remember where they are may be the bigger challange. Rod