OD not working on '53 Ford 3-spd w/R10

[bbarry]

The OD in my 1953 Ford Courier is not working. It’s identified as the Ford 3-speed with R10 OD, but I have no history on this car and can’t confirm that it is the original/correct unit. I believe the culprit to be the solenoid. I say that as all other mechanical and electrical components perform or test properly on the bench or installed:
- 3 speed works great – recently rebuilt; upshifts, downshifts, no noises, oil was free of debris…just as you’d want
- OD cable properly adjusted – easy to operate; when coasting there is engine braking with cable out (“locked out”) and no engine braking with cable in (“in-gaged”)
- Governor bench tests properly and grounding surfaces clean
- Relay can be heard to click with ignition on and governor wire grounded; voltage checks at solenoid feed wire
- Kickdown switch properly goes from NO/NC to vice versa at WOT.
The solenoid bench tests fine – great sound and action when hooked straight to battery. But no sound or action is detected when the solenoid is installed and “bench” tested (now in car) with same battery, wires, and connection points. Solenoid assembles to the trans as it should: insert, twist ~90 deg to align bolt holes, check to insure you cannot pull it back out. This under-car bench test has been tried with cable in and out – no difference.
Should I be hearing/feeling the plunger action when activated in the car? I note comments that say there is a unique solenoid for wagons. Couriers also? How to identify? What’s different? Mis-built OD in trans? Other? Thanks to all of you, especially Mac. I have read numerous posts and they are very helpful.

[Kens 36]

Your setup sound good, so far.

These are very sensitive to voltage. Check the power to the relay, usually wired from the ignition switch. This should be nearly identical to the voltage directly at the battery. Then activate the relay as you have shown - when the relay clicks, check the voltage on the terminal that goes to the solenoid. If you have any voltage drop there, we can give you some steps to take.

You actually should hear the solenoid engage when you ground the relay. If no voltage drop out of the relay, check the voltage at the solenoid when the relay is activated.

Ken

[pistonbroke]

Take a cheap or junk screwdriver and file it to the same profile as the solenoid tip and engage it to the pawl in the overdrive . You should be able to move it 3/8" to 1/2" in and out with very little effort . I've seen them stuck or jammed before. Most of the electricle issuse I've seen are with solenoid or the kickdown switch. They tend to get wet and dirty being mounted so low on the body. In later years the moved the kick down switch up to the carb linkage for this very reason. The last time I checked these switches were still avalible at NAPA .Tim

[rotorwrench]

The convertible cars and station wagon types had a different frame to beef up the structure so the shift solenoid won't fit in the normal position on those. Ford made an adapter rocker plate that under slung the shift solenoid for those X cross member frame type Ford cars. The straight cross member cars all used the same solenoid. Most of the chassis parts catalogs illustrate the rocker adapter.

I've heard of problems with the lock out rail assembly inside the transmission but it should be OK if it is going into full lock out unless it's not going back into position when selected to OD. It should fully retract when the cable is pushed back in. The side cover has to be pulled out to see if the rod retracts all the way back into the gear compartment of the transmission. This is where the reverse lock out lever pushes it back when the transmission is shifted into reverse. When shifted out of reverse the rod pushes back into that part of the transmission case. There can be an issue with the balk ring getting out of place but it's only under certain circumstance that it can happen. There is a procedure in the overhaul manual to reset it but the symptoms are different.

Someone already mentioned the pawl check. It should move in and out anytime the cable is pushed all the way in. Pulling the cable out locks it with the shift rail to stop engagement. The solenoid should pop out quickly when bench checked or when connected fully to the electrical system with governor circuit grounded under test. It has a push out coil and a holding coil in there to lower the amp draw while it's activated.

I have a fully updated R10 overhaul instruction in my 1949 through 51 Lincoln Mercury overhaul manual. The only differences is that the 49 though early 51 Mercs had the larger half bell, and the larger input shaft. Both types had the lock out switch in the governor circuit. The late 51 and up Merc transmissions had no bell, smaller input shaft, and no lock out switch. Ford eliminated the lock out switch as redundant in the 51 & later transmissions. The Lincoln cars used the R11 OD based on the T85 transmission. Ford all had the basic 259 series type transmission but they all are similar between Ford and Mercury cars. In 1952 & 53 Ford & Mercury cars both had the same basic transmission.

[Mac VP]

One further test you could do is to remove the solenoid from the OD adapter. Leave the wires connected to it and add a temporary ground wire from the solenoid base to any nearby good ground. With the ignition switch on, ground the governor. This should pop the plunger out and hold it there as long as you keep the ignition on. This test would prove that the solenoid functions correctly as wired up to the existing wiring and control devices. You were able (as previously stated) to bench test the solenoid before and it worked normally. If it does not work now, you’ve got a failure in the circuit between the relay and that solenoid…..wires, connection terminals, etc. Original wiring can be broken inside the insulation for example.

If the above test proves the operation of the solenoid to be good, the problem may be wear on the pawl….the part that the solenoid physically connects with, preventing it from sliding in and out. The suggestion above about using a screwdriver to move the pawl yourself is a good test for this. Keep in mind that the pawl engages in one six slots in the balk gear….the pawl has to line up with one of the slots to move in and out of it. Get the rear wheels off the ground or disconnect the back end of the driveshaft. This allows you to slightly rotate the transmission output shaft (with the overdrive cable “in”). This will allow you to slowly turn the balk gear enough to line up one of the slots with the pawl. If you cannot get the pawl to slide into one of the six slots, it may have a burr on it. This would involve disassembly of the overdrive section of the transmission to repair the pawl.

[rotorwrench]

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Just to add, if you look at a Borg Warner diagram for R10 or 11. The pawl is pushed up against the balk ring as soon as the solenoid engages it at governor on speed during operation. It stays cocked against the balk ring until the operator lets off the throttle. The action of letting off the throttle allows the balk gear & ring to move and the ring lets go of the pawl and allows it to go all the way into one of those slots for overdrive. They call it the ring and gear assembly in the parts books. This is what Mac is describing in the last post #5. The ring and the gear are made into one part but the two parts of it can rotate independently of one another. The drag on the ring is designed in at manufacture. It has to have some drag but still rotate. The drag tension is checked at overhaul to make sure it's functional. The pawl slides in a slot cut into the adapter plate. Like Mac mentions, it can stick in there if crud gets into the works. It's not common but any of this stuff can wear out for one reason or another.

[bbarry]

Ken, yes there is a drop in voltage on the wire to the solenoid. But, in my situation I am under the car trying to get the solenoid to fire using the same battery with same connection points with same wires as I used on the bench test. So, in that situation, same voltage. That is why my question relates to why I can get it to fire on the bench but not in the car??

[bbarry]

FBarners, thanks. My next test will be the pawl travel check as I have the car in the air and the solenoid out (where it works fine on the bench again). But a quick question: what is it telling when I have engine braking with the cable out (as I should) and no engine braking when the cable is in? I am taking this to mean that the OD section of the trans is mechanically correctly built/working. True?

[Kens 36]

Can you tell us

1. The voltage at the battery.
2. The voltage at the IGN terminal on the relay (by the fuse) with the ignition switch on.
3. The voltage at the SOL terminal with the relay activated by grounding the TH SW terminal.

If you are losing even a few tenths here, there are steps to improve the relay.

Ken

[rotorwrench]

The shift rail is just that. It engages the sun gear to the planetary. Pulling it out disengage the planetary and locks to the outer gear which bypasses the roller sprag or freewheeling unit. It shouldn't free wheel in lock out. It has to freewheel in overdrive or it won't shift.

[bbarry]

FBarners, sorry for the slow response. I did the pawl check. The pawl moves in ~1/2" and retracts under its own weight. Then, with OD cable in, held the pawl in while rotating the driveshaft. When the pawl aligned with the balk gear it moved in ~1/2" more. And, again, easily retracted. It was at this point that I reasoned it had to be an electrical issue and, further, had to be a grounding issue despite all my efforts to keep grounding surfaces clean. So, I ran a redundant ground straight to the battery. That worked and the solenoid fired while installed. So, installed a permanent wire from solenoid to battery.

But, on the next test drive, all excited I might add, still not working. My next step, because of the comment above about voltage sensitivity, is to ground the governor circuit with key on to ensure that the solenoid sees a healthy voltage. I will get the values that Kens 36 asks for.

Thanks, again.

[bbarry]

Kens 36, to your questions re: voltages:
volts at the battery = 6.28 (new Optima)
volts at fuse, solenoid out point on relay, and at wire to solenoid connection = 5.68

You mentioned that a drop of a few 1/10ths is critical. How does a 0.6v drop strike the community?

(I think I know the answer and what to do next.)

[Kens 36]

That is a significant drop. You are likely losing voltage through your ignition switch. To see if this is causing the problem, you could attach a wire from the voltage regulator BAT terminal to the IGN terminal on the relay. Just be aware that this wire will always be hot. The relay will not be energized until the governor completes the circuit.

That may help determine if your problem is cause by the voltage drop.

Ken