40 vs 39

[wickcopland]

It seems to me that the 39 models were less popular than the 40 models. What is the main reason? Or am I completely out in left field?
Wick

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by wickcopland

It seems to me that the 39 models were less popular than the 40 models. What is the main reason? Or am I completely out in left field?
Wick

Not sure my "opinion" lines up with your statement....I love the 39's (both standard and deluxe) over the 40 Deluxe (SORRY Kube, 19Forty et al).....obviously the 40 Standard, for me, would also fall in the "love list" as its a carry-over of the 39 Deluxe. You can ALSO carry that to the Mercury as well, the 39 is hands down a prettier car than the 40 Merc, to me

[jimTN]

40s were the final year for the basic body design and had a lot of improvements. Dash panels were nicer, better radios, better support for front clip and grill, more sturdy hood, front stabalizer bar, better light switch, vent windows just to mention a few items.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by wickcopland

It seems to me that the 39 models were less popular than the 40 models. What is the main reason? Or am I completely out in left field?
Wick

I suppose your question may be difficult to answer fully.
The way I interpret your question is why were the '40 models more desired back in 1940 were than the '39 models were in 1939.
The '40 models, again, back in 1940, were considered a huge improvement in styling change. Sealed beam headlamps, shift lever moved to the column were also huge selling points.

Nowadays? Folks have their opinions on which models are "the best". Beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder.

I'd like to point out that the 1940 Ford has become (decades ago) a "cult" car, much like a '57 Chevy. The '40 is not a whole lot different than a '39 but enough to make it more valuable. Same with a '57 Chevy. Not a bunch different than a '56 but enough to make it the standout.
From personal experience, a lot of it, I have consistently found that a '40 deluxe will bring considerably more money at sale than a very comparable '39 model. By that I mean the same body style and the same overall condition.
The '40 deluxe has always realized more value than the '40 V8 model (aka "standard").
The bottom line? While folks can and should have their favorite, the market dictates that the '40 deluxe is the most popular when compared to the '39 models as well as the '40 V8 models.

[51504bat]

IMO same can be said for a '31 Model A vs. a '32 Model B or a '38/39 barrel nose pickup vs a '40/41. The '32 and the '40/41 will command more $$ than their earlier year counter parts on similar condition.

[Karl Wescott]

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Originally Posted by wickcopland

It seems to me that the 39 models were less popular than the 40 models. What is the main reason? Or am I completely out in left field?
Wick

Any question as to why a customer would buy a 1939 in preference to a 1940 based on styling or performance is somewhat irrelevant. The new 1939 buyer had no option but 1939, the new 1940 buyer the same conundrum but 1940.


What options there were as to marque. Ford, vs Chevy, vs Plymouth, vs Graham, vs etc... I have not researched but my impression is that sales across the entire market were "soft" in 1938, better in 1939, and improved significantly in 1940.


Why? The "Great" Depression was not one flat economic disaster. The economic times and car sales (the tail on that dog) began declining significantly starting in 1929 then bottoming out in 1933, improving in 1934 to a bit of a peak in 1936-1937 (still well below 1928 levels), then declining again 1938. 1939 saw the beginning of the war economy with a mini-boom in 1940. In 1941 restrictions on materials and conversion of factories to war production slowed car manufacturing.


So, there are more 1929 model A's than either 1930's or 1931's. More 1934's than 1933's, more 1936's and 1937's than 1935's and more 1940's than 1939's. Sales driven by economics.

[Seth Swoboda]

Karl is right on with his assessment on the economy of the mid to late 1930's. I have studied this to a small extent. 1938 saw a significant decline in the US economy, a recession, while trying to recover from a major depression. Sales of durable goods tanked. Cars sales for every brand were down. That is why you see few 1938 models today.
In my opinion the improvement of sealed beam headlights on all 1940 Ford models was a major improvement over the 1939 and earlier models.


Kube said it best when he described the "cult" following of 1940 Fords. Just like the 1932 Fords. A '32 Ford is a vast improvement over the Model A. However each model year forward provided improvements. Some model years just seem to have a "cult" following. I think a '33 Ford is better looking than a '32, but a '32 Ford will always have a slight edge.


Wick, I also happen to like the '39 DeLuxe Ford styling and would be proud to own one.

[Kube]

Karl, in regard to your response, I was clear in that this question is difficult to answer. You my friend brought up very valid points. Points I thought of but didn't chose to include.
In my opinion, you are spot on with your take on the economy vs. car sales. That would've been a factor back then for certain.
To perhaps simplify this... it is currently almost all about beauty being in the eye of the beholder.
While this thread may very well get numerous responses as to what a certain individual prefers, the bottom line is values. A '39 "apple" compared to a '40 "apple"? The '40 apple costs more.

Going forward in time, the '40 did become what I term a "cult car". In that part of its lifespan, the economy played fairly between '39 and '40. The '40 pulled ahead in value decades ago and has stayed ahead.

[Cool Kat with Hot Car]

The entire reason the 1932 - 1940 Fords are so desirable today is directly linked to their popularity as hot rods and race cars. First, is they looked better than most of the competition when new. Next, is the speed derived from the V-8 and the light weight of the car. Then there is the interchangeability of parts from the whole range of pre W.W. II Fords. The cars wee durable due to Ford's use of quality materials, The cars would out handle all most any other brand. The icing on the cake was that the flathead V-8 cold be souped up to handle double the original horsepower and live. So, starting in the late 1930s the Ford V-8 cars became the backbone of hot rods, customs, and race cars. The favorite models for the hot rod guys were 1932, 1934, 1936, and 1940. The favorite years for the Custom guys were 1936 and 1941 Fords and 1939 and 1940 Mercs. The cars that the pre war hotrodders preferred continued to be the most sought after all the way through the 1970s. Why? Because it was a fact of nature. This preference continued in the early years of the V-8 club. The original members were from two groups. First were the fans of the nostalgic. The second were old time hot rod and custom guys. The most admired cars then were yes, 32, 34, 36, and 40 cars. This continues today, reflected in the value of the cars in the marketplace. I know, all of the pre war Fords are wonderful. 33s, 37s, 35s and even 38s have their adherents. But facts are facts.

[hueyhoolihan]

Originally Posted by Cool Kat with Hot Car;2439568[COLOR="Red"

The entire reason the 1932 - 1940 Fords are so desirable today is directly linked to their popularity as hot rods and race cars....[/COLOR]

my first thought as a Jan and Dean, The Beach Boys. and Ed "Big Daddy" Roth's "Rat Fink" character fan.

note: "Rocky Creek Bridge" in background

[1942deluxe]

A really good book on the prewar Fords is Ford in the Thirties by Paul R. Woudenberg. It gives a good perspective of Ford's struggles to remain competitive in that era. What we
revere today wasn't always the best seller in its day.

[Farley's34]

I have a 39 DeLuxe Coupe, two 40 Standard Coupes, a 40 DeLuxe Coupe and a 40 Convertible. I like my 39 Coupe best although my 40 Standards are a very close second. Most guys I know lean toward a 40 Standard or a 39 DeLuxe. Myself, I think they're all nice. But then again beauty is in the eye of the beer holder!

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by hueyhoolihan

my first thought as a Jan and Dean, The Beach Boys. and Ed "Big Daddy" Roth's "Rat Fink" character fan.

note: "Rocky Creek Bridge" in background

[custom_lettering]

If a coupe either year would be fine. If a convertible a 39 all day long. Perfect proportions

[rotorwrench]

The 39 deluxe was the first year of that basic design. To us, the price of a brand new 1939 Ford would seem to be chicken feed but in 1939, it was a lot of money for the average American. They would start saving their funds for a new car but low and behold the 1940 came along after they had the savings in hand. The war didn't start for Europe until late 1939 so the writing was on the wall that war was likely coming whether folks liked it or not. Manufacturing for war production really fueled the economy.

The 1940 had that new remote shift so three people could ride in the front seat. Young unmarried men would have really liked getting close with the girlfriends so purchasing a used car in the prewar and immediate post war era would have made the 1940 the cat's meow for cruising. Both year models were beautiful designs from Bob Gregorie and Edsel Ford.

[38 coupe]

The driving experience is different between 39 Deluxe and 40. Ford did a lot of work to refine the driving experience for 1940 and it worked. The 40s are a much more refined car, nicer to drive. If you were purchasing a second hand Ford to drive daily the 40 was a much better car. That reality probably helped 40s be more popular and valuable than 39s.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

The driving experience is different between 39 Deluxe and 40. Ford did a lot of work to refine the driving experience for 1940 and it worked. The 40s are a much more refined car, nicer to drive. If you were purchasing a second hand Ford to drive daily the 40 was a much better car. That reality probably helped 40s be more popular and valuable than 39s.

What changes did they make that you believed the '40 was much more refined / nicer to drive than a '39?

[Cool Kat with Hot Car]

No roll out windshield, sealed beam headlights, column shift, softer spring rate with front sway bar.

[rotorwrench]

They were improved but most folks likey couldn't tell the difference. The roll control was a new thing but it didn't have a large effect on the old I-beam axles. The panhard rear axle locator rod helped some in 42 but they didn't make many of those due to the war. The 1949 cars were the first ones to have a more effective roll control.

Don't get me wrong, l like the way the old Ford buggy spring suspension rides but it was starting to get archaic after all the years Ford used it. Now Bendix brakes would have been better but that was going to be after a long war and a few more years to get there.

[38 coupe]

Originally Posted by Kube

What changes did they make that you believed the '40 was much more refined / nicer to drive than a '39?

Ford advertised more refinements than the three I list below, but I am not sure if each of those additional changes listed as a refinement was included for advertising purposes, or if each change really reduced the noise experienced by the driver. Dave Cole did a nice article on the subject in the March-April 1999 V8 Times.

My experience with driving lots of miles on 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, and 46 Ford passenger cars leads me to agree with a noticeable improvement for the driver due to at least these three changes:

• Column shifter with rubber bushings at the column and at the transmission to reduce drive train noise transmitted into the passenger compartment
• Choke and throttle controls with rubber bushings to to reduce drive train noise transmitted into the passenger compartment
• Wing vents in the front doors instead of a crank out windshield, allowing smoother air flow in the front seat area when driving

Sealed beam headlights, which were adopted by almost every manufacturer for the 1940 model year, need to be mentioned as well. Earlier headlights with separate reflectors work surprisingly well when the reflectors and lenses are in new condition, but dim substantially as the reflectors tarnish and the inside of the lenses get dirty. Replacing the bulb on a sealed beam headlight renewed both the reflector and the lens, restoring headlights to new condition until the wiring itself degraded.