The Ford Barn

meteorpete · 07-30-2025, 11:37 AM

I've replaced my "early" braking system with the later style and need to install the brake cross shaft and parking brake cross shaft. Looking for a drawing that shows exactly where the hardware attaches the brackets to the frame. I did a search and have not been successful. Thanks

Russell Reay · 07-30-2025, 11:47 AM

I am a relative newbie myself, so I was not aware of two versions of the cross-shafts' locations

nkaminar · 07-30-2025, 04:38 PM

You may have to measure the locations on a friend's car.

feufeu · 07-30-2025, 05:07 PM

Hi,
Hope this can help...

mcgarrett · 07-30-2025, 05:48 PM

I checked some of my Model A reference books, but no luck with the measurements you need. I would go with Nkaminar's recommendation to be sure you get it right the first time.

Bob C · 07-30-2025, 06:20 PM

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Have you tried the old holes as I don't see anything in the Service Bulletins about drilling new holes. Do you have the Service Bulletins page 297-300.

Y-Blockhead · 07-30-2025, 06:24 PM

Hmmm, to give you a rough estimate, since the brake rods are all equal length, they should meet in the middle. The center pivot should be straight vertical.

I would still take Nkaminar's recommendation and measure some ones car.

meteorpete · 07-30-2025, 07:17 PM

Thanks everyone! Yes, it looks like I might have to visit a friend with my tape measure!

meteorpete · 07-31-2025, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

Have you tried the old holes as I don't see anything in the Service Bulletins about drilling new holes. Do you have the Service Bulletins page 297-300.

Hi Bob - no, I don't have those pages. Do they refer to the information required to switch to the later style braking system and the location of the mounting holes?

Bob C · 07-31-2025, 11:46 AM

Yes they cover the conversion. https://www.amazon.com/COMPLETE-FACT...s%2C164&sr=8-1

Y-Blockhead · 07-31-2025, 01:42 PM

Good book to have. As mentioned, I don't see anything about a change in mounting hole location.

meteorpete · 07-31-2025, 04:49 PM

My wife reminded me that months ago I grabbed a front crossmember off a frame that a neighbour has behind his garage. Sure enough, it was still there, so I took photos and measurements! Strangest thing, even though my frame had the early brake set-up, the holes for the later style cross shaft are already drilled on my frame! However, the parking brake cross shaft holes are not.

rotorwrench · 07-31-2025, 05:36 PM

The early equalizer brake set up had two separate brake operating shafts but they were in pretty much the same location. Mounting was different just due to the design. The e-brake cross shaft replaces the old equalizer mechanism so it's completely different. The e-brake handle changed multiple times with three different locations.

Bob C · 07-31-2025, 05:57 PM

So did your car have the very early brake system with no independent emergency brake?

rotorwrench · 07-31-2025, 07:21 PM

There were several iterations of equalizer systems before Ford made the change to the independent e-brake. I looked at a you-tube video that the Maine As put out on the Ford mechanical brake system (late type). It has views of the front cross shaft setting immediately behind the front running board brackets on the lower frame rails. With the brake bellcranks in vertical placement, the top rod centerline is just over the rear edge of the bracket on each side.

The e-brake cross shaft has a reinforcement arm that attaches to the rear side of the center crossmember on the frame in that video. The frame has fairly large holes punched for the supports on each side and they are flared outward a little for bearing clearance. Two small bolt holes are punched to secure the bearings. This is doable but it won't be a bolt in alteration. All this would take some time and ingenuity to replicate. I've done alterations like changing a 1930/31 Gemmer II steering assembly to 1929 short assembly and welding up frame holes to get a front crossmember snug in the frame but no brake alterations yet. If a person had an old frame to aid in copying the mounting, it sure would make it easier.

meteorpete · 07-31-2025, 07:46 PM

Yes, my car had the early system without an independent parking brake system (the parking lever activated all 4 service brakes). I'm also switching to a T5 transmission so I have a lot happening in this part of the frame - new transmission, crossmember modifications, additional T5 support mount, addition of the service brake cross shaft and addition of the parking brake cross shaft. I am hoping to engineer the parking brake so I can use the original cowl located parking brake handle with the later parking brake cross shaft.

rotorwrench · 07-31-2025, 08:02 PM

Is your e-brake handle on the left like the model T? This was the 1st design. The second design moved the handle to the center just forward of the gear shift tower but still had the pistol grip.

NEW INFO
I checked a 1931 frame that I have and took some measurements. They are close approximations but something you can work with. I've studied the frame evolution pages on the Steve Plucker site and his history follows Fords changes from day one to the end of production. Ford wanted to be accurate as possible on frame assembly so they punched all the holes instead of drilling them. There are variations in some hole sizes by date in the record so it's best to say there are variations over the entire production time but this will still be of some help. I measure the distance from the front body mount tab rear edge (against the frame) back to the two holes punched in the lower rail for the brake cross shaft brackets. The forward hole was 5.5" back from the tab to the center line of the hole and 8.25" back to the rear hole cl. The E-brake cross shaft hole centerline was 11 5/16" back from the centerline of the top rivet hole for the forward running board brace. I forgot to measure the vertical distance from the bottom rail up to the centerline of the large e-brake cross shaft hole. The diameter is near an inch but the flare on the outside makes the hole larger on the inside and I had a ton of other frame parts on top of the rails so it would take more time than I had to gain access to both sides. This frame is apart with only the little tabs still installed. I can dig it out but I'll have to enlist help in doing that. It might be easier to measure my 29 frame at some point but it's together so it will be tricky. I have better measuring tools at the shop so I'll try and do it ASAP.

Jim Mason · 08-01-2025, 02:47 PM

Same place as the early cross shafts mounted

rotorwrench · 08-02-2025, 03:19 PM

I finally took a look under my 29 and I'm glad I did. There was a first design e-brake cross shaft and then the final design. The one to use is the first design from late 28 up to somewhere in 1930. This shaft has the large L-shaped end arms on each end. It has the two bolts for each bearing support and only a small center hole for the grease fittings. It mounts about 1 3/8" down from the top rail surfaces on bolt centers. The front edge of the shaft tube is very close to 5" from the aft vertical face of the center crossmember. This would be much easier to install than the later type cross shaft.

The front brake cross shaft figures that I gave earlier are close but another figure is from the front battery box frame bolt centerline to the forward cross shaft bracket bolt centerline. I measured 8 15/16" from CL to CL. Both are on the lower surface of the frame rail for reference but the battery is only on the left. The bell crank arms are very close to the front running board brackets. The bearing support brackets are not flush with the lower rail inner edge but they are close and parallel to the edge. Best fit rules on Installation.

If you need further info just let me know.

Jim Mason · 08-02-2025, 10:07 PM

Fwiw

07-30-2025, 11:37 AM	#1
meteorpete Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: East of Toronto Posts: 30	Brake Cross Shaft Locations? I've replaced my "early" braking system with the later style and need to install the brake cross shaft and parking brake cross shaft. Looking for a drawing that shows exactly where the hardware attaches the brackets to the frame. I did a search and have not been successful. Thanks

07-30-2025, 11:47 AM	#2
Russell Reay Senior Member Join Date: May 2021 Location: NH/ VT Posts: 460	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? I am a relative newbie myself, so I was not aware of two versions of the cross-shafts' locations

07-30-2025, 04:38 PM	#3
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,855	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? You may have to measure the locations on a friend's car. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

07-30-2025, 05:48 PM	#5
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Corsicana, Texas Posts: 1,306	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? I checked some of my Model A reference books, but no luck with the measurements you need. I would go with Nkaminar's recommendation to be sure you get it right the first time.

07-30-2025, 06:20 PM	#6
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 9,358	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Have you tried the old holes as I don't see anything in the Service Bulletins about drilling new holes. Do you have the Service Bulletins page 297-300.

07-30-2025, 06:24 PM	#7
Y-Blockhead Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 6,642	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? Hmmm, to give you a rough estimate, since the brake rods are all equal length, they should meet in the middle. The center pivot should be straight vertical. I would still take Nkaminar's recommendation and measure some ones car.

07-30-2025, 07:17 PM	#8
meteorpete Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: East of Toronto Posts: 30	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? Thanks everyone! Yes, it looks like I might have to visit a friend with my tape measure!

07-31-2025, 01:42 PM	#11
Y-Blockhead Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 6,642	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? Good book to have. As mentioned, I don't see anything about a change in mounting hole location.

07-31-2025, 04:49 PM	#12
meteorpete Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: East of Toronto Posts: 30	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? My wife reminded me that months ago I grabbed a front crossmember off a frame that a neighbour has behind his garage. Sure enough, it was still there, so I took photos and measurements! Strangest thing, even though my frame had the early brake set-up, the holes for the later style cross shaft are already drilled on my frame! However, the parking brake cross shaft holes are not.

07-31-2025, 05:36 PM	#13
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 17,410	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? The early equalizer brake set up had two separate brake operating shafts but they were in pretty much the same location. Mounting was different just due to the design. The e-brake cross shaft replaces the old equalizer mechanism so it's completely different. The e-brake handle changed multiple times with three different locations.

07-31-2025, 05:57 PM	#14
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 9,358	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? So did your car have the very early brake system with no independent emergency brake?

07-31-2025, 07:21 PM	#15
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 17,410	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? There were several iterations of equalizer systems before Ford made the change to the independent e-brake. I looked at a you-tube video that the Maine As put out on the Ford mechanical brake system (late type). It has views of the front cross shaft setting immediately behind the front running board brackets on the lower frame rails. With the brake bellcranks in vertical placement, the top rod centerline is just over the rear edge of the bracket on each side. The e-brake cross shaft has a reinforcement arm that attaches to the rear side of the center crossmember on the frame in that video. The frame has fairly large holes punched for the supports on each side and they are flared outward a little for bearing clearance. Two small bolt holes are punched to secure the bearings. This is doable but it won't be a bolt in alteration. All this would take some time and ingenuity to replicate. I've done alterations like changing a 1930/31 Gemmer II steering assembly to 1929 short assembly and welding up frame holes to get a front crossmember snug in the frame but no brake alterations yet. If a person had an old frame to aid in copying the mounting, it sure would make it easier. Last edited by rotorwrench; 08-02-2025 at 11:55 AM.

07-31-2025, 07:46 PM	#16
meteorpete Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: East of Toronto Posts: 30	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? Yes, my car had the early system without an independent parking brake system (the parking lever activated all 4 service brakes). I'm also switching to a T5 transmission so I have a lot happening in this part of the frame - new transmission, crossmember modifications, additional T5 support mount, addition of the service brake cross shaft and addition of the parking brake cross shaft. I am hoping to engineer the parking brake so I can use the original cowl located parking brake handle with the later parking brake cross shaft.

07-31-2025, 08:02 PM	#17
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 17,410	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? Is your e-brake handle on the left like the model T? This was the 1st design. The second design moved the handle to the center just forward of the gear shift tower but still had the pistol grip. NEW INFO I checked a 1931 frame that I have and took some measurements. They are close approximations but something you can work with. I've studied the frame evolution pages on the Steve Plucker site and his history follows Fords changes from day one to the end of production. Ford wanted to be accurate as possible on frame assembly so they punched all the holes instead of drilling them. There are variations in some hole sizes by date in the record so it's best to say there are variations over the entire production time but this will still be of some help. I measure the distance from the front body mount tab rear edge (against the frame) back to the two holes punched in the lower rail for the brake cross shaft brackets. The forward hole was 5.5" back from the tab to the center line of the hole and 8.25" back to the rear hole cl. The E-brake cross shaft hole centerline was 11 5/16" back from the centerline of the top rivet hole for the forward running board brace. I forgot to measure the vertical distance from the bottom rail up to the centerline of the large e-brake cross shaft hole. The diameter is near an inch but the flare on the outside makes the hole larger on the inside and I had a ton of other frame parts on top of the rails so it would take more time than I had to gain access to both sides. This frame is apart with only the little tabs still installed. I can dig it out but I'll have to enlist help in doing that. It might be easier to measure my 29 frame at some point but it's together so it will be tricky. I have better measuring tools at the shop so I'll try and do it ASAP. Last edited by rotorwrench; 08-01-2025 at 02:26 PM.

08-01-2025, 02:47 PM	#18
Jim Mason Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 948	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? Same place as the early cross shafts mounted __________________ www.jmodela.coffeecup.com Fwiw, jm.

08-02-2025, 03:19 PM	#19
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 17,410	Re: Brake Cross Shaft Locations? I finally took a look under my 29 and I'm glad I did. There was a first design e-brake cross shaft and then the final design. The one to use is the first design from late 28 up to somewhere in 1930. This shaft has the large L-shaped end arms on each end. It has the two bolts for each bearing support and only a small center hole for the grease fittings. It mounts about 1 3/8" down from the top rail surfaces on bolt centers. The front edge of the shaft tube is very close to 5" from the aft vertical face of the center crossmember. This would be much easier to install than the later type cross shaft. The front brake cross shaft figures that I gave earlier are close but another figure is from the front battery box frame bolt centerline to the forward cross shaft bracket bolt centerline. I measured 8 15/16" from CL to CL. Both are on the lower surface of the frame rail for reference but the battery is only on the left. The bell crank arms are very close to the front running board brackets. The bearing support brackets are not flush with the lower rail inner edge but they are close and parallel to the edge. Best fit rules on Installation. If you need further info just let me know. Last edited by rotorwrench; 08-02-2025 at 03:25 PM.