1954 Mwercury 256 hrd starting

[Bob from Northport]

I have a 54 Monterey with a 256 4 Brl. When cold, the engine is very hard to start. The starter rolls very slow. All the cables have been replaced with brand new heavy duty ones. Plugs are clean and gapped. Points are good. Timing good. I have a back up electric fuel pump on it, and a brand new-not rebuilt fuel pump. Pressure at the carb is 4.2 lbs. I have to pump the carb a crazy number of times before it finally starts. But the plugs never show flooded with fuel. It runs fine after starting. Anyone offer advise on where to look??

[Anteek29]

You should determine why the starter rolls slow. Your Monterey did not have that problem when new. Use a voltmeter to determine where voltage drops are occurring under starting load. You might have a bad solenoid, connection or perhaps the starter needs a rebuild.

[scicala]

Is the manifold choke working, and closed when the engine is cold ?

Sal

[Bob from Northport]

The manifold choke appears to be working correctly. Should the butterfly flaps be totally closed when I first push the accelerator down to set the choke??
I'm considering the previous response about the starter. the connections and cables re all brand new., very heavy cables. Would i test the solenoid when the engine is turning?? on both sides of the connection??
Who would you recommend to check/rebuild the starter??

[KULTULZ]

You need to use the electric fuel pump (primer or supply?) to prime the system before cranking. The gasoline (ethanol) is evaporating from the carb fuel bowl due to heat sink and evaporation.

You also need to perform a starter motor draw test on the starter circuit using a multi-meter. Use the SPECS (6V) found in your WORKSHOP MANUAL.

https://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc...r-on-car-tests

Make sure the BAT is good and fully charged. You may also want to perfom a GEN output test.

[cousinjd]

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Using a multi weight (10-30) oil in cold weather will help lessen drag on starter. Good battery condition is main challenge in cold condition. Just my two cents worth. Jim

[Bob from Northport]

I have a new 6 volt electric fuel pump used as a primer on the car. The gauge at the carb reads 4.2 lbs. of pressure. I am going to try and check voltages at all points tomorrow. Going to check voltage drop when turning over as well. I write more tomorrow

[KULTULZ]

I have a new 6 volt electric fuel pump used as a primer on the car. The gauge at the carb reads 4.2 lbs. of pressure.

The 1st thing to do is hit the primer pump until you hear it stop running. At that point the fuel bowl will be filled and make start much easier. You then initiate the automatic choke.

It is on a spring loaded toggle switch? And if inline has a flow-thru rating?

[scicala]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

You need to use the electric fuel pump (primer or supply?) to prime the system before cranking. The gasoline (ethanol) is evaporating from the carb fuel bowl due to heat sink and evaporation.

You also need to perform a starter motor draw test on the starter circuit using a multi-meter. Use the SPECS (6V) found in your WORKSHOP MANUAL.

https://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc...r-on-car-tests

Make sure the BAT is good and fully charged. You may also want to perfom a GEN output test.

Yes, the choke butterlies should be completely colsed when you set the choke cold. The vacuum piston in the choke assembly on the manifold will crack the choke open slightly as soon as the engine starts.

Sal

[KULTULZ]

Similar thread from another forum -

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic168331-1.aspx

[Bob from Northport]

I tried Kultulz method of starting the car. Strangely the engine fired on the second turn.
I have good voltage everywhere. The odd thing is that the electric pump did NOT shut off but went from a rapid click to a very slow click. The pump is new, installed last winter. And yes has flow thru capacity. The gauge at the carb reads 4.2 lbs of fuel pressure. I see no leaks anywhere or smell any fuel. I use only ethanol free fuel. Any suggestions???

[KULTULZ]

The odd thing is that the electric pump did NOT shut off but went from a rapid click to a very slow click.

Where did you install the primer pump, between the tank and mechanical pump or between the mechanical pump and carb?

When you initiate the electric pump (how wired, IGN SW or toggle switch?), it will operate until the fuel bowl(s) are filled (needle and seat) and then slow down somewhat or cut-off entirely.

If a primer only, it needs to be on a toggle switch, spring return for safety, or if it is continuous run it needs safety features installed.

[Bob from Northport]

The pump is on the rear frame as close to the tank as I could get it. It is on a toggle switch that i turn off once the engine starts.

[KULTULZ]

Try this -

Before attempting to start, run the electric pump until you hear it stop (system has been pressurized). Cut the pump, set the choke and see if it starts as it normally would/should.

If the pump (as a primer) is wired off a simple ON/OFF SW, and you forget to turn it off after start, you may have some serious safety concerns.

There is a filter before the electric pump? It is inline (no gas by-pass line) with correct flow-thru rating?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Bob from Northport

I have a 54 Monterey with a 256 4 Brl. When cold, the engine is very hard to start. The starter rolls very slow. All the cables have been replaced with brand new heavy duty ones. Plugs are clean and gapped. Points are good. Timing good. I have a back up electric fuel pump on it, and a brand new-not rebuilt fuel pump. Pressure at the carb is 4.2 lbs. I have to pump the carb a crazy number of times before it finally starts. But the plugs never show flooded with fuel. It runs fine after starting. Anyone offer advise on where to look??

#1 or Zero gauge battery and starter cables are the only way to go on a 6v vehicle.
Do double check that there isn't any paint or corrosion on the surfaces the cables attach to and that they are tight enough.
Story time, time's 2 ....
My neighbor had a 6v '55 that occasionally wouldn't turn the starter or it would only turn slowly.
Drove him nuts for a couple years until he discovered a previous owner had spray painted all the battery & starter cable terminals a shiny silver so they'd look good.

My son had a newer compact Ford that acted the same way.
The nut on the starter cable lug on the starter seemed tight but wasn't.
It was just loose enough to arc on the stud and damage the threads. The nut would only tighten down to the damaged threads but not enough to actually tighten against the cable lug. A thread chaser would have fixed it, but not having one the right size a couple extra washers between the nut and cable lug did just as well.

A brand new mechanical fuel pump? . . Where was it manufactured?
Since the '54 pumps aren't the same as '55 and newer you may be lucky and not have one made in China. All their (dual action) fuel pumps made in the last 6-ish years for '55/'57 T-birds are DEFECTIVE in the box. Rebuilt old pumps for those cars are the only ones to have, unless you go with a full time electric pump.
.

[rotorwrench]

Make sure the accelerator pump is functional. Those old cars generally flood easily if you pump the throttle too much. In warm weather, the choke spring may not push the choke closed due to warm temps. The carb idle circuit may also be a bit on the lean side.

[Anteek29]

Bob from Northport stated that the starter rolls very slow. I am of the belief that discussions of choke, carb and fuel pump are inconsequential to his hard starting problem. Primary focus should be to fix the low starter revs issue first.

[KULTULZ]

When you initiate the electric pump (how wired, IGN SW or toggle switch?), it will operate until the fuel bowl(s) are filled (needle and seat) and then slow down somewhat or cut-off entirely.

Originally Posted by Bob from Northport

I tried Kultulz method of starting the car. Strangely the engine fired on the second turn.

I have good voltage everywhere. The odd thing is that the electric pump did NOT shut off but went from a rapid click to a very slow click. The pump is new, installed last winter. And yes has flow thru capacity. The gauge at the carb reads 4.2 lbs of fuel pressure. I see no leaks anywhere or smell any fuel. I use only ethanol free fuel. Any suggestions???

Only toggle the electric pump (without engine cranking) until it stops or slows drastically. Release toggle switch and then crank. It is a PRIMER PUMP only.

Did you perform the voltage drop test as in the TECH ARTICLE I posted?

Is the engine in a good state of tune?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Anteek29

Bob from Northport stated that the starter rolls very slow. I am of the belief that discussions of choke, carb and fuel pump are inconsequential to his hard starting problem. Primary focus should be to fix the low starter revs issue first.

I agree. It may be the starter, starter draw, fuel bowl evaporation or possibly a well worn engine dragging the starter down. One won't know for certain until the DRAW TEST is performed (correctly).

It also may be a multitude of problems.