'32 Roadster top color

[hotrodA]

Paging @Ryan to the red phone.

Is there any more popcorn?

[glennpm]

Yesterday I took a number of these pictures outside in good light. Today I adjusted the white balance in Gimp, a graphic program. This picture of T14-GT Green-on-Tan, is the result and it is a perfect match to my sample.

[glennpm]

Regarding seat springs, Synder's provides all of them I believe. They'll also make a custom 2" high versus stock's 3" too.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/s...=&searcht=1932

[DavidG]

Glenn,

Thanks for taking the trouble to take the "best possible" photo of your Lebaron Bonney T-14 top material. Attached are a couple of photos of the unused top boot and door side curtains from a restored roadster that I recently acquired.

Over the years, the Athertons' experience was that individual dye lots from Haartz (their supplier of the T-14 material) varied considerably in terms of their olive green appearance. (Robert's examples of my '37 cabriolet and '32 phaeton and those attached here are all made from the Haartz/LeBaron Bonney T-14 material at different times.)


Those variations evidently took place ninety years ago as well judging from the variations in the color density exhibited in the Ford archives photos of '32-'38 deluxe open cars shown in the DeAngelis/Francis book. All of those vehicles were made with the same top material which Ford simply described as "drab".

The coloration in the attached photos is the same as that of the original phaeton side curtains of Gene Hetland's highly original phaeton's examples shown in the V8 Club's 1932 book and numerous other well-preserved side curtains, top boots, and even the remnants of original tops. Yes, it is at the extreme of "greeness" dye lots, but as original nonetheless.

[glennpm]

You're welcome David.

I knew Lee very well, a wonderful person and thoughtful. When I was piecing together my'32, I had access to Lee's fantastic original roadster that he kept in the shop out back. I wonder who has it now? I took many dimensions and photos during the process on many a Saturday morning. My '40 convertible was used for the original LB pattern. My'40 had been reupholstered over the original materials but it was a struggle for them!

We talked a few times about sourcing materials. Most of his wool interior materials were sourced in England. He was fussy about originality and showed me some of the sample rejects, shaking his head :-)

[DavidG]

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My first contact with them was with Jack back in the mid-60s with my first '32 roadster restoration and then with Lee when Jack retired. They were a pleasure to work with as our originality goals were the same. I relied on them for all of my Ford restoration projects' tops and upholstery and I provided engineering drawing copies to fill in some of the blanks.


When they decided to take the plunge with Haartz and contract for the necessarily-custom made T-14 top material in the late '70s or early '80s, they were concerned that there wouldn't be enough demand for it to justify the minimum quantity that they had to commit to purchase. Accordingly, they offered at least some of their customers a one-time offer to purchase a full roll of it. I still have a small amount left from the roll that I bought.


With Lee's passing and the retirement/loss of key employees, the firm's demise became an obvious eventuality, but I relied on them up to the very end even as things started to fall apart in the hands of the third set of owners.

[acchaplin]

Originally Posted by glennpm

Regarding seat springs, Synder's provides all of them I believe. They'll also make a custom 2" high versus stock's 3" too.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/s...=&searcht=1932

Thanks again Glenn! Shudda had Snyder's seat addy back in 2019-2020 when I made the seat.

Places that had re-popp Deuce spring seats were rather pricey. (Brookville was one) As I mentioned. I felt is was more benificial and cheaper, NOT to modify one of those $pring seat frames, but make my own.

Had a guy that was scrapping out one of those '20's something-or-other extended Econoline "people" vans. You know, a long(er) cargo van that had back seats.

I got all 3 seats basicly for free, traded a 30 pack of beer or a pizza. Can't remember, don't much care.

Made the bottom and top frames much to the original size of the re-popp Deuce seat frame. Took the van seat frames cut, extended, shortened, re-enforced, etc. The seat back was a little longer than the bottom, (taller) and a little wider than the bottom frame. Now had a seat frame to fit the seat riser, and the car!. Next was get the back and bottom springs installed. Cut the OEM van seat foam to fit the modified frame. Made the foam to fit my hips, re-enforced my lower back. Had a very confortable bottom slope, and the back tilt was just right, plus the height was inline with a 3" chopped windshield! Plus at quick look, the seat looked somewhat original!

After looking at it, and sitting in the seat (making pretend motor noises with my tongue and lips) for a couple of weeks, I wanted to do "more". So I took the seat down to the frame, and made the back portion tilt forward to the steering wheel. The back frame hinge is hidden inside the bottom seat foam!

A smiple modification of the bottom seat frame mounting to the floor seat riser. Resulted that I can now lift the bottom seat portion to reveal a "cubby hole" between the underneath seat frame and the riser! I can either, lift the bottom up, or tilt the back forward, revealing a storage space between the seat back and the trunk divider. But I can't lift and tilt at the same time. Only one or the other.

The basic shape of the Van seat foam, I whittled out with a 'lectric carving knife. It needs to be smoothed out better by a upholstery professional with that special foam.

Wifey gave me an idea on how to re-word my original style, color, shape and top material request!

I kept saying I wanted original color seat, side panels, and top. She said to say/ask,,,, I WANT ORIGINAL 'LOOKING' interior and top!

It DOES NOT have to be a dead "balls on" concourse correct match!! JUST LOOK original!

David, that is what I asked, (after you told me there was none avalible, or something worded like that,) "in your travels, if you ever ran across a material color that was "close" the OEM color?" Most people, when a item is discontinued, they find a close subistute. But you said "NO" there was nothing close! That statement of yours troubled me. No more. There HAS to be a material out there and is VERY close to the original Copra Drab color! (whatever that is)

Since David said that Stayfast is as about as close to an OEM top color/material as one can get. And his colored pictures show a (light) tan(ish) roadster top inside and out.

I'll take RockFla's "lesser of the two evils" idea, and go with the Tan outside and Tan inside top material. I was told by Stayfast 4 yards of material would do a roadster top.

THERE! Top material and color is chosen! DONE! No more discussion needed! (unless a vital correction is warranted)

THANK YOU ALL!!!

David. I know you said you wern't gonna help me any more. Fine and dandy. But I'm gonna hold you to your answer to your mailing address request.

Sometime here, (when?) I am supposed to be getting some upholstery samples that are "supposed" be close to that Copra Drab color, form overseas. I'm going to gather them all up put a ID # on the back of each one, and then mail 'em to you! If you would PLEASE view them, pick the one sample you think is the CLOSEST to the C'Drab color, and that you would use as a subistute! Throw the rest away and use the SASE to mail your choice, "THIS ONE" on your choice, back to me.

That is the ONLY way I know of to end this confusing verbal volleyball upholstery blanter!

[DavidG]

No, thank you. Please provide your mailing address and I will send you a sample of a good match of the 32-early '34 DELUXE roadster upholstery material, Ford called copra drab, and you can than use it to choose your alternative from the sources you have found, if you wish.

[rockfla]

Acchaplin

Hopefully you will share the source and color numbers you find with Us here on the barn, I for one would love to order several yards.

[acchaplin]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Acchaplin

Hopefully you will share the source and color numbers you find with Us here on the barn, I for one would love to order several yards.

SURE WILL!

I found a subistute tan rubber mat. 5'X10' .055 thick, for the same price Bob Drake wanted for his re-popp front mat! I covered the entire floor with it! It's a shade lighter than Drakes' mat.

Took a while. Did it in two sections. Front part is from the firewall insulation pad back to and around the seat riser. The back rear part is from inside the seat riser back to panel under the trunk latch. I moved my seat riser and renforcement plate back 4-5 inches. (more leg room)Took a bunch of cereal box, pop and beer carton cardboard. Carefully cut the cardboard out to fit the contour for each floor section. Then taped all those cardboard pieces together to make one big pattern. Laid that pattern out of the rubber mat, traced around it and marked out all the holes with a sharpie. Then cut the mat to just the inside of the sharpie line. Perfect fit!

I had posted the floor companies name on here. I don't think it generated much interest

This rubber mat is for trailer and garage flooring cover. Elete Floor Coverings.

[acchaplin]

Originally Posted by DavidG

No, thank you. Please provide your mailing address and I will send you a sample of a good match of the 32-early '34 DELUXE roadster upholstery material, Ford called copra drab, and you can than use it to choose your alternative from the sources you have found, if you wish.

Sure! But you gave me your mailing addy and said for me to mail the samples to you.

[DavidG]

Given all of the above, I withdraw my offer to receive your samples, if I made such an offer. You may wish to use the sample that I send you as a guide or not, the choice is wholly yours.

[acchaplin]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Given all of the above, I withdraw my offer to receive your samples, if I made such an offer. You may wish to use the sample that I send you as a guide or not, the choice is wholly yours.

Ok, good. Either way.

Yes, I will accept your C'Drab upholstery sample with glee! It will be good to actually see the correct color!! Finally, no more speculation, guessing in trying to match pictures!

I can cut sample pieces of your sample piece and send to these upholstery suppliers! Here, here is the REAL thing! What is the closest you offer that matches it!?

I will skeedadle over and PM you my mailing addy!

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

[lfson]

Let's see if I can be of some assistance, or I may add some more confusion. I have a nice picture from Gene Hetlands (RIP) collection in 2008. It shows his original low milage DL Roadster with original body paint. The top was also believed to be the genuine, but bleached after 76 years.
You also see part of his Cabriolet with a new top, which could be a pretty late version of T-14 in the 2000's. Le Baron Bonney had the T-14 material produced several times and the color shade became lighter and lighter and more gray each time in my view. It never returned to their first "more genuine looking" green shade. I don't say that the first version was a perfect match to the original in 1932 (who knows that?). However, their first versions bleached very easily and turned into light tan to white in one summer outings. I have no reference to the sun resistance of the later versions. Probably better.

[lfson]

[IMG]"C:\Users\lfson\OneDrive\Leifs filer\Ford 32\Gene Hetlands bilar\2008-07-13 Hos Gene o Pat Hetland\2008-07-11 - 31 USA-resa 052.jpg"[/IMG]

[DavidG]

Leif,


You evidently missed seeing the side curtains of Gene's highly-original phaeton (pages 17-12 and 13).

[lfson]

My intention was to insert a photo, but it shows that I’m not capable of doing it.

I have plowed through all of this top color discussion now and my conclusion is the following. With respect, rod builders are using or thinking of one word more than most serious restorers. That word is ORIGINAL. Evidently misleading in many cases. I recommend a book that every 32-owner using the word "original" should buy. "The 1932 Ford Book", a set of 2 heavy books, gives the answer of this top discussion with good color photos. However, the great challenge is to find that top material.
My answer to rodders asking about hard to find original pieces pretty often is: "Why is that so important when you don't care about what you have under the hood or the modern wiring representing the rainbow. You should try the junk yard and find a Honda or Mazda part, it may work".

[glennpm]

Good picture posting help here:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...sting+pictures

[Kube]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Given all of the above, I withdraw my offer to receive your samples, if I made such an offer. You may wish to use the sample that I send you as a guide or not, the choice is wholly yours.

Dave, I must commend you on your patience. You have a lot more than I do. I would have been "outta here" some time ago.