Anyone have a body parts book?

[JayJay]

On the 1930 Murray Town Sedan 155-C (and I suspect on the standard Fordor as well), the rear fender well is attached to the wood body frame using three countersunk rivets that go through the sheet metal and an L-shaped steel piece that attaches to the wood body rear cross member and to the body perimeter wood. Countersunk side is the fender well side, and they are peened over in the inside against the steel piece. I'm looking for the rivet size used to hold that together. I had to grind them out to get the steel frame member out, and the holes are a bit too small for 1/4" rivets, but seem too large for 7/32" rivets. They were quite tight when they came out. Does anyone have a body parts book that lists the size of those rivets? Sorry I don't have the part number.

Thanks a million.

[Gary WA]

Yes but dont show what location for?

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Gary WA

Yes but dont show what location for?

Thanks, Gary. I suspect the rivet I'm after is on the second page you copied, but I can't read the actual sizes. Doesn't the body parts book also have some exploded drawings? I guess I should get one...

[Gary WA]

This work?

[rotorwrench]

A person needs a source. We lost Big Flats Rivet Co not long ago. Now you have to check 3rd Gen Automotive to see what they have. Frame rivets and some 3/16 body rivets are available but your in a different territory with the countersunk types. Hanson has a selection of steel rivets but I don't know what degree of countersink types they have. Aviation uses 100 degree but others may be 80 or 90 degree. They also have flat head and brazier head.

Common sizes are 1/8, 5/32, 3/16, and 1/4-inch sizes. I'm not sure about 7/32. Rivets expand a fair amount when driven or squeezed so the holes end up oversized even when a person is careful removing them. Countersink rivets in thin sheet metal make the countersunk side hole too big for easy driving. FORD used brazer head types for body rivets but I don't know about the body subcontractors like Briggs and Murray. They likely sourced their own fasteners for the most part.

[JayJay]

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Thanks Gary and rotorwrench. I calculated the length I need and it comes to 9/16”. So I suspect that the proper rivet is 1/4” x 9/16, as shown in the Parts Book. I ordered a box of those, also a box of 7/32” x 5/8”, from Jay-Cee Sales & Rivet (rivets online.com). We’ll see what fits.

And since the box was 100, and I’ll use six, anyone needs these, let me know.

[rotorwrench]

The general rule on rivet protrusion at set is 1 & 1/2 D with D being the rivet diameter but on hard rivets like steel or monel, they can get by with 1D protrusion and still give an acceptable buck tail. They don't try to push over and club foot the buck tail that way. Ford and likely the subcontractors used hydro pneumatic rivet squeezers to simplify and speed up production. Driving them with an air hammer is tricky and many times required application of enough heat to allow them to drive. 7/32 is in the large rivet category so heating them cherry red will likely be necessary. Make sure they fit the hole pretty tight or the process will be more difficult.

I've rebuilt a lot of wrecked helicopters in my day as well as riveting car and motorcycle parts so I have some experience in this task.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The general rule on rivet protrusion at set is 1 & 1/2 D with D being the rivet diameter but on hard rivets like steel or monel, they can get by with 1D protrusion and still give an acceptable buck tail. They don't try to push over and club foot the buck tail that way. Ford and likely the subcontractors used hydro pneumatic rivet squeezers to simplify and speed up production. Driving them with an air hammer is tricky and many times required application of enough heat to allow them to drive. 7/32 is in the large rivet category so heating them cherry red will likely be necessary. Make sure they fit the hole pretty tight or the process will be more difficult.

I've rebuilt a lot of wrecked helicopters in my day as well as riveting car and motorcycle parts so I have some experience in this task.

Thanks, rotor. I was planning to heat up the ends before trying to drive with my air hammer. If I end up using the 1/4" rivets (which seems more likely) I may have to ream the holes in the steel strap to 1/4" to get them in. I've found that drilling isn't as precise as reaming.