What do you do with your dipper tray in oil pan

[psimet]

My oil pan is a bit of a mess but I have it off and want to clean it up. My question is do you all paint *inside* the oil pan? Like the dipper tray? If so what paint?

Do you just seal it somehow? Or do you all just let it go?

[mcgarrett]

No paint - over time you run the risk of having paint flake off and possibly block the oil strainer screen of the oil pump or clog the dipper holes in the connecting rods. In both cases that means NO OIL to the pump and engine and potentially catastrophic failure due to oil starvation.

[Joe K]

I have drilled a 1/8th inch hole in the bottom of each of the depressions - to let oil return to the sump below during an oil change.

Otherwise you hold upwards of a quart of oil in the pan which doesn't get changed.

Some have critiqued this as the hole may plug - which it may. But I have also seen dipper trays with rust holes in the bottom similarly.

The point of the sump below is to offer a "settling place" for crud the oil brings back. The point of the tray is to offer oil for the "splash" lubrication. As long as the oil pump pumps faster than the holes drain, all is good.

This rationale may change depending on the "type of oil" one uses. Technically detergent oil doesn't "settle out" - but you still want the oil in the sump and not the pan for change-out.

Joe K

[Flathead]

No oil to the rods until the dipper tray fills up again after start up???? I prefer not to drill.

[psimet]

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

No paint - over time you run the risk of having paint flake off and possibly block the oil strainer screen of the oil pump or clog the dipper holes in the connecting rods. In both cases that means NO OIL to the pump and engine and potentially catastrophic failure due to oil starvation.

This was my concern of course. I really don’t want to put it on the new engine without at least bead blasting it. After that just rub it in oil to keep it from rusting until assembly?

Could I do something like blueing?

[mcgarrett]

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I use phosphoric acid to stop flash rusting on bare metal...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=klean+stri...20-64_1000.jpg

[Joe K]

Could I do something like blueing?

Possibly. Of course for years machine cases have been coated internally with "Glyptol" which was originally used as an insulating paint for copper windings used in electric motors. Mechanics have found the alcohol based finish is impervious to machine oils and today it's very frequently used internally on engine blocks, transmission cases, differential cases - anywhere an impervious high quality internal coating resistant to oil is required.

The primary advantage for castings is "sealing in" foundry sand so it doesn't come loose under heat, lubricity of the oil.

Still, used on the engine block directly above the oil pan - what difference would it make?

I would want to provide a good "anchor" before painting: blasting, removal of all intrained oil in the metal. More or less the same you do in preparing a casting for internal glyptol.

It's expensive. I just bought a quart on Ebay for $65.

Single layer - multiple layers may have the tendency to "flake."

Joe K

[oldspert]

After sanding down to bright metal, I applied a light coating of phosphoric acid. This converts any left over rust to iron phosphate. I second no holes drilled because the dipper tray would be completely dry when starting the engine until oil is pumped back up.
Ed

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by psimet

This was my concern of course. I really don’t want to put it on the new engine without at least bead blasting it. After that just rub it in oil to keep it from rusting until assembly?

Could I do something like blueing?

This is what I do, coat of oil after bead blasting and then seal the top of the pan with saran wrap. BTW, in prep for bead blasting, to get the old glazed oil off the tray and the inside of the pan I use good old fashioned oven cleaner - the kind in the yellow can with lye, not the newer stuff with organic acids.

[psimet]

Awesome. Thank you all. What paint do you use on the outside? I’m going for what I believe is the “original” black.


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[Clem Clement]

Clean the dip tray out. do not drill the dip depressions. that is the source of splash oil from the moving piston rods.

[Gary WA]

Originally Posted by psimet

Awesome. Thank you all. What paint do you use on the outside? I’m going for what I believe is the “original” black.


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Any descent black paint will do!Just clean it good prior.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by psimet

Awesome. Thank you all. What paint do you use on the outside? I’m going for what I believe is the “original” black.


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Originally those were dipped black enamel. Any good gloss black enamel works, or some folks like to powder coat them.

Just to clarify, that's the exterior of the pan. Leave the dipper tray and the interior of the pan bare metal.

[Big hammer]

When changing oil after it stops dripping leave the plug out, take a quart of oil a pour it in the filler pipe while watching dirty oil flow out of the drain until the oil flow is clean ! It should be less than a quart, reinstall the drain plug and fill to the full level on your dip stick.

[nkaminar]

You could try gold plating the inside of the oil pan and splash tray.

The rods need oil quickly on start up, so I would advise not drilling the holes in the splash pan for dip lubricated rods. But for a pressure lubricated engine, where the rods are pressure lubricated, the holes in the tray are a good idea.

[Joe K]

I have had good luck with electrolysis (to remove/convert any rust), followed by a phosphate wash (phosporic acid) to "passivate" the surface.

Follow instructions online for "electrolytic rust conversion/removal." I'd let it set about a day as the red rust is turned "black." Then wire wheel (or sandblast) to remove the loose black.

If you stop there, little by little what little black rust remains will "revert" to red rust - undoing all that you have done. Nature has a way of reclaiming it's own.

For phosphoric wash I've used "prep & etch" which is a Kleen-Strip product. I used to get mine at Lowes, but I see now they have "Concrete & Metal Prep" - which is the same thing by the same manufacturer.

I had a steam pump I was restoring for my own pleasure (one has to have SOMETHING to carry in the back of a Model A pickup) and I did the pre-painting step I outlined above. It sat around for almost two years before I got back to the pump painting and assembly - it sat there through two humid New England summers with that "dull grey" look of phosphated metal.

Finally I said I can't gamble another year and painted and reassembled the pump.

The truck rides REAL good. Pump still looks good too.

Joe K

[Bob Bidonde]

In my opinion, I would not drill any holes in the dip pockets of the tray. The connecting rod bearings are the most highly loaded and cannot be oil starved as might happen if there is an inadequate oil supply in the pockets.

There are 3 places that must always have a copious supply of motor oil to lubricate the engine's bearings. They are the valve chamber, the dip tray and the oil pan.

[psimet]

For the record I have no intention of drilling the dipper tray. I understand the ideas around it and I have no intention of doing that.

Really just interested in the finish as I can swear it looks like there is black paint on it originally (I understand it can just really be cooked oil and debris) and I couldn’t think of what kind of finish would persist so I figured I’d come out here to the experts and ask.

I just couldn’t see the point in cleaning it up only to have it rust right over again. I’m going to blast it and do the phosphoric acid wash. Then I’m just going to go heavy on repeatedly wiping with oil after I paint the outside to keep it from flashing over before I get this engine built.

[Flathead]

I just give it a good cleaning, and wipe with oil until engine gets assembled. I don't think they were painted originally and since they are pretty much bathed in oil when engine is running that should be sufficient. I've taken apart a lot of motors over the years, Ford and many other makes, the oil pans were never painted inside. No paint, nothing to come loose or cause trouble.

[400A]

Repeating what some others have already said: "No painting, no coating and no holes"