Automatic Transmission?

[jeepguy1948]

I’m sure that this topic has been discussed before, probably several times. This is for the most part, a hypothetical question and I doubt that I would ever do it but if health problems made it necessary, maybe. So, an automatic transmission behind a banger motor? I know that automatic transmissions take some torque/horsepower to operate and that would have to be taken into consideration when choosing a transmission. I’m thinking that even the most efficient automatic would be too much for a stock motor but 80 hp is not that difficult to produce. Rear axle ratio would come into play as well if a guy really wanted to do it right. I’m thinking that most likely a power glide is the most efficient of the automatic. A power glide being only a 2 speed that would come into play although on the other hand, the slip of the torque converter would help mitigate that. Obviously, an adapter would be required and so the availability of one could dictate transmission choice too.

[Y-Blockhead]

Bendtsen's makes Model A Adaptors https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...f?v=1592251539 or try Wilcap.

[Charlie Stephens]

Try using the search function. Search only Model A Forum with something like automatic transmission. They allow people with handicaps to continue driving their Model A and in those situations and I 100% support it. I hate to admit it but if I was faced with the situation I would probably install a 4 cylinder Chevy II with an automatic.

Charlie Stephens

[JayJay]

There was an article in the MAFCA Restorer a few issues back on an automatic transmission conversion. Was done for/by a member of my club and he continues to drive it today, and loves it.

[jeepguy1948]

I will follow up on your suggestions. Thanks

[stickshift]

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I believe the lowest power robbing automatic transmission is the Chevy power glide. It has only two speeds and doesn’t have the bigger valve body and extra clutch packs that a three or four speed automatic would require. The more complex, the more hydraulic pressure it takes to run things. Also, a lower rpm torque converter would be considered.

[johnneilson]

Ford C4 and TF 904?
Have seen both of these used
J

[Charlie Stephens]

If I remember correctly they were using a transmission from a 6 cylinder Chrysler product.

Charlie Stephens

[Synchro909]

Why bother with an automatic transmission - why not convert your Model A to electric? It's been done.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Why bother with an automatic transmission - why not convert your Model A to electric? It's been done.

Best electric Model A conversion I've seen has an estimated 125 mile range. I'd do an electric conversion (just to keep my bride happy) but until we can figure out a way to get a 300 mile range I'll stick with dino juice. I'm sure that Model A aerodynamics (someone recently opined that a Model A is as aerodynamic as an outhouse - what a visual!) contribute a lot to this.

[Mike1291]

Originally Posted by JayJay

Until we can figure out a way to get a 300 mile range I'll stick with dino juice

I think a 300 mile range is a bit unreasonable. Even with 11 gallons of gasoline and 17 mpg you're not going to do any better than 190 miles on a tank. If they get it up to 200 miles on a charge I think that would be sufficient. That would be comparable to something like a Nissan Leaf.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Mike1291

I think a 300 mile range is a bit unreasonable. Even with 11 gallons of gasoline and 17 mpg you're not going to do any better than 190 miles on a tank. If they get it up to 200 miles on a charge I think that would be sufficient. That would be comparable to something like a Nissan Leaf.

I would agree with this point.

While we are definitely going to see a reduction in EV mandates with this new administration, this actually might make purchasing EV conversion components even more affordable in the future for those who find the need to modify their Model-A. Additionally, we are seeing more and more charging stations being built that could make the 300 mile trip even easier. Being able to recharge while eating lunch at a restaurant would make recharging less of an inconvenience.

FWIW, my son is a college instructor and although his main core of classes is teaching motorsports, he is also the EV instructor. So he and I spent some time spec-ing out an EV conversion for a Model-A, -and surprisingly, having the complete EV conversion professionally done with decent quality components was about the same costs of having a new Burtz engine professionally built and installed in a Model-A.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Mike1291

I think a 300 mile range is a bit unreasonable. Even with 11 gallons of gasoline and 17 mpg you're not going to do any better than 190 miles on a tank. If they get it up to 200 miles on a charge I think that would be sufficient. That would be comparable to something like a Nissan Leaf.

So I admit that I threw out 300 miles sort of arbitrarily. Maybe it’s 250, or 230. But 200 would be pushing it.

I agree that with a 10-11 gallon tank and 15-18 mpg, the Model A has a practical range of maybe 160 miles. But at the end of those 160 miles, you pull into a gas station and 10 minutes later (maybe 15 if you do a bio-break as well) you are back on the road. Not so with an EV, you are faced with maybe 45 minutes to an hour recharge, which would be fine if everyone else on the tour was recharging and there were enough rechargers. But it will be a while until the infrastructure is built up enough for that to happen.

My monthly club tours can be up to 100 miles. Add in that I live 35 miles from our usual start locations, and you can see that a range of 125 miles doesn’t work for me. Also add in that the charging infrastructure is being built along major thoroughfares like interstates, which is precisely where Model As don’t want to be. So in Buttstuck, Nowhere when you need a charge, will it be available? When we plan our tours, especially cross-country, fuel availability is an issue. Our tour chase cars carry a couple of Jerry cans of gasoline. How will that work with electric? Planning and execution will be infinitely more complicated with electric. Not a good fit at present.

I’m not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I like the idea of an electric conversion. I just think we have some more work to make it feasible, at least for me.

[jeepguy1948]

Although the original basis for this thread has been hijacked (LoL), I’ll play along. I know very little about EV’s really but on the other hand, as an industrial electrician I know quite a lot about most of what it entails. When it comes to range for an EV it’s all about the battery. I’m sure that Terry factored in what could be crammed into a Model A with the batteries currently available although different models would have different space available. Also, batteries are expensive so range cost’s money. Now, how much range could you get if you loaded up the back of a pickup truck :-) And seriously? You can make a living teaching motorsports? Really? I’m intrigued, that’s not even work LoL

[jeepguy1948]

I don’t know if this would be possible to do on a Model A (I guess anything is possible if you throw enough money at it) but I have a Dodge Cummins powered truck and I added a torque converter lock up. I didn’t add it for efficiency I added it because it’s required for a Jake Brake to function but it does add efficiency, there’s no doubt about it. It essentially turns a torque converter into a clutch. The downside is that you have to turn it off before you can come to a stop. It’s not practical to use for stop and go driving but on the highway, it’s fantastic. Such a feature would probably really help make an automatic function with a low horsepower, low RPM motor much better. Just a thought…

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by jeepguy1948

Although the original basis for this thread has been hijacked (LoL), I’ll play along. I know very little about EV’s really but on the other hand, as an industrial electrician I know quite a lot about most of what it entails. When it comes to range for an EV it’s all about the battery. I’m sure that Terry factored in what could be crammed into a Model A with the batteries currently available although different models would have different space available. Also, batteries are expensive so range cost’s money. Now, how much range could you get if you loaded up the back of a pickup truck :-) And seriously? You can make a living teaching motorsports? Really? I’m intrigued, that’s not even work LoL

Starting the answers backwards.....

Yes, Blake graduated with an Industrial Arts degree with a concentration in Motorsports. There are several colleges that offer a curriculum in this. College curriculums are much different than what was available 3-4 decades ago. Today there is leeway for the counselors to map a career path, and the regents are most concerned about a path that allows the student to find a job over strictly following what the regents have mandated. Therefore if an employer requests a curriculum for a student to have CAD experience, Performance Drivetrain, some Aerodynamics, and maybe public speaking, then the counselors can map out that curriculum for the student.

Much of what people believe about EVs and the maintenance costs are incorrect. Batteries ae not that expensive, -especially if a rebuilt one is used.

With regard to a Model-A, Blake and I had drawn in CAD an electric motor unit that would anchor using the rear Model-A engine supports and it would have a secondary mount just in front of the center crossmember where the motor would attach to the torque tube in place of the transmission. This basically would allow for a bank to be fitted under the hood in the engine compartment.

Likely the safe range would be 150 - 200 miles before recharging. Just because you have the capacity to travel 250 miles does not mean it is safe for the batteries to do so repeatedly.

The club trip could be planned around stops. A great example of this is I recently participated on a brass-era tour with my 1909 T, and there were 6-7 Stanley Steamers on the tour with us. Most of the Stanleys I am familiar with carry about 30 gallons of water with them, and the non-condensing ones get about 1 gallon of water per mile. Therefore they were stopping about every 25 miles for water. Several personal friends were driving their Stanleys, and ironically every time the rest of us stopped for a bathroom break, the lunch stop, or a place of interest, these steam guys were there with us. So while it seemed like taking a steam car on a tour with a bunch of gas powered cars would be a pain trying to keep up, they hung right in there with us. Likely in the future, when Model-A club tours are planned, the tour host can plan to make stops that can accommodate a few electric Model-As to take a 10 minute top-off while gasoline powered cars are refueling also.



(Speaking of a thread hijacking!! Click on this link and count how many different Stanleys you see on the tour I was speaking about above. https://wtkern.smugmug.com/Enthusias...Carriages-Tour )

[rotorwrench]

I've not seen an article about an auto trans in a model A. I did look at the adapter set up which solves a few problems but only the transmission. The other major question is about the drive component back to the rear end. If open then it opens a large can of worms. If closed, it requires an adaptation at the rear of the transmission so that is another problem to be tackled. A person then has to be concerned about vacuum if it is a vacuum modulated transmission. Hand brake & pedal attach are other concerns. It's not an easy conversion for sure.

[Bob Bidonde]

The goal of my "bucket list" is to live to be 100 years old with all of my marbles and still be driving my Model A's. It crosses my mind that sometime in my 90s, I may need an automatic transmission in my Model A's. I am guessing / hoping that there is a very small modern car with a tiny automatic transmission & torque converter that can handle the 100+ in-lbs of torque of the Model B motors in my cars??? Perhaps there is a constant velocity unit that would work???

[Planojc]

I'll buy an EV when they find a way to recharge the battery in the same amount of time that it takes to fill up with gas.

[Will N]

IMHO, you start replacing the tranny with an automatic, and you are destroying some of the essence of what makes it a Model A. You've made it into some kind of replica. It you're going to do that, get a Shay replica. They were available with automatics.