The Ford Barn

Adam/Mill Valley CA · 07-17-2024, 08:32 AM

If he still has a 21 stud motor in his '36, and it is an early '36, it could have poured main bearings as opposed to an insert type (LB block). If it has poured bearings, I don't think the clearance is adjustable (unlike, say, with a model A Ford).

Adam

Firechickenzz · 07-18-2024, 10:27 PM

If I pull the main caps to plastigage the bearings am I going to need to replace the studs?

How can I tell if I have insert bearings vs babbitt?

cadillac512 · 07-18-2024, 10:32 PM

No, studs will stay in the block and will be fine. When you get a main cap off you'll be able to remove the thin bearing shell from it if it's insert type. If it's babbitt the bearing material will be fused to the cap like solder.

Firechickenzz · 07-21-2024, 09:49 PM

So today I was able to plastigage the oil pump plate to the gears. I couldn't find a spec but I'm assuming .006" is not good. Also the plate bolts seem to be stripped. Can those be helicoiled? Can the plate be flipped?

20240721_170645.jpg

I checked the center crank it came in at .002" So i thin I'm fine there but I did notice there is a cast Ford script in the bearing? Is that possible on babbit bearings which this engine is supposed to have? Or do I have a replacement motor from a different year and these are inserts. And if that's the case how do I figure out which year?

Bearing Close up.jpg

There was a bunch of sludge in the top end of the oil pump which I'm sure wasn't helping.

20240721_171432.jpg

I also pulled the oil relief piston and spring. I did happen to already buy a new spring from ThirdGen and the new one is considerably stiffer and longer. So do I just have a worn out spring?

20240721_183638.jpg

I'm curious to know if the oil pump I have is worth saving or should I just but a new one? Melling High volume as previously suggested or other option?

Thanks
Andy

tubman · 07-21-2024, 10:41 PM

I backed out of this thread once I realized that you were dealing with a pre-war engine and my experience was with 8BA's. Hopefully, one of the early engine gurus will jump in here with the straight scoop, but I can tell you that the maximum clearances for an 8BA pump are .005", so the .006" is over spec, but probably usable. I have had problems with new aftermarket pumps, in my case, one from Speedway Motors, while another esteemed member has told of problems with the Mellings pumps.

The overall consensus is that you can't beat a genuine Ford unit. I believe a good upgrade for the earlier engines is a later 8BA pump with helical rather than straight cut gears. The problem is that they have an internal relief spring that opens at about 55 psi, which will peg the earlier gauges. The answer here is to run the stock relief spring in the stock location, which will be the final arbiter of maximum oil pressure.

Mart · 07-22-2024, 04:59 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

That's an insert shell bearing. What diameter is the crank or the bearing? Later cranks have mains that are .100 bigger then earlier ones.

Firechickenzz · 08-18-2024, 10:28 AM

Thought I would post an update to close this thread out.

Was able to confirm the oil pump clearances were all in spec. Removed about 3/4-1" sludge from the bottom of the pan. When the pump was removed we had found sludge made it all the way to the top of the pump. Inspected the oil pressure relief spring and found it to be extremely weak. Replaced the spring with a replacement from ThirdGen. Removed any sludge pools from the valley area. Also found that the oil baffle deflector had a broken clip and replace that with a part from a donor motor.

Finally got the motor back in the car and we are now running 80 pounds at cold start and then settles to 40-50 when on throttle once warm.

Thanks to everyone who commented. I appreciated the assistance on getting this fixed.

07-17-2024, 08:32 AM	#21
Adam/Mill Valley CA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mill Valley,CA Posts: 299	Re: Oil Pump? If he still has a 21 stud motor in his '36, and it is an early '36, it could have poured main bearings as opposed to an insert type (LB block). If it has poured bearings, I don't think the clearance is adjustable (unlike, say, with a model A Ford). Adam __________________ 1936 pickup, stock, black 1965 Mustang coupe 289/4bbl, black/red 1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750 coupe, dark red/tan 1970 911E 2.2 litre dark blue/black 1968 BMW R50/2 US, black (m'cycle) 1967 Triumph TR6R , sea foam/cream (m'cycle) 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 red (m'cycle) 1974 Honda CB750 red (m'cycle) 2000 Kawasaki W650 blue/silver (m'cycle)

07-18-2024, 10:27 PM	#22
Firechickenzz Member Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 69	Re: Oil Pump? If I pull the main caps to plastigage the bearings am I going to need to replace the studs? How can I tell if I have insert bearings vs babbitt?

07-18-2024, 10:32 PM	#23
cadillac512 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Kansas Posts: 1,172	Re: Oil Pump? No, studs will stay in the block and will be fine. When you get a main cap off you'll be able to remove the thin bearing shell from it if it's insert type. If it's babbitt the bearing material will be fused to the cap like solder. __________________ "It don't take but country smarts to solve the problem" (Smokey Yunick) '41 Merc Town Sedan / 260" 8CM engine '66 Fairlane four door / "warmed up" 302

07-21-2024, 09:49 PM	#24
Firechickenzz Member Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 69	Re: Oil Pump? So today I was able to plastigage the oil pump plate to the gears. I couldn't find a spec but I'm assuming .006" is not good. Also the plate bolts seem to be stripped. Can those be helicoiled? Can the plate be flipped? 20240721_170645.jpg I checked the center crank it came in at .002" So i thin I'm fine there but I did notice there is a cast Ford script in the bearing? Is that possible on babbit bearings which this engine is supposed to have? Or do I have a replacement motor from a different year and these are inserts. And if that's the case how do I figure out which year? Bearing Close up.jpg There was a bunch of sludge in the top end of the oil pump which I'm sure wasn't helping. 20240721_171432.jpg I also pulled the oil relief piston and spring. I did happen to already buy a new spring from ThirdGen and the new one is considerably stiffer and longer. So do I just have a worn out spring? 20240721_183638.jpg I'm curious to know if the oil pump I have is worth saving or should I just but a new one? Melling High volume as previously suggested or other option? Thanks Andy

07-21-2024, 10:41 PM	#25
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 11,633	Re: Oil Pump? I backed out of this thread once I realized that you were dealing with a pre-war engine and my experience was with 8BA's. Hopefully, one of the early engine gurus will jump in here with the straight scoop, but I can tell you that the maximum clearances for an 8BA pump are .005", so the .006" is over spec, but probably usable. I have had problems with new aftermarket pumps, in my case, one from Speedway Motors, while another esteemed member has told of problems with the Mellings pumps. The overall consensus is that you can't beat a genuine Ford unit. I believe a good upgrade for the earlier engines is a later 8BA pump with helical rather than straight cut gears. The problem is that they have an internal relief spring that opens at about 55 psi, which will peg the earlier gauges. The answer here is to run the stock relief spring in the stock location, which will be the final arbiter of maximum oil pressure.

07-22-2024, 04:59 AM	#26
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 9,083	Re: Oil Pump? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) That's an insert shell bearing. What diameter is the crank or the bearing? Later cranks have mains that are .100 bigger then earlier ones.

08-18-2024, 10:28 AM	#27
Firechickenzz Member Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 69	Re: Oil Pump? Thought I would post an update to close this thread out. Was able to confirm the oil pump clearances were all in spec. Removed about 3/4-1" sludge from the bottom of the pan. When the pump was removed we had found sludge made it all the way to the top of the pump. Inspected the oil pressure relief spring and found it to be extremely weak. Replaced the spring with a replacement from ThirdGen. Removed any sludge pools from the valley area. Also found that the oil baffle deflector had a broken clip and replace that with a part from a donor motor. Finally got the motor back in the car and we are now running 80 pounds at cold start and then settles to 40-50 when on throttle once warm. Thanks to everyone who commented. I appreciated the assistance on getting this fixed.