The Ford Barn

Gezer · 07-16-2023, 05:19 PM

I just put a new fuel pump from Charlie Price at Vintage Speed and pump push rod in my 51 EAB stock flathead.
Push rod was bad. New Push rod from Van Pelt is 10.064 long for 49-53 EAB for cast iron intake.
Have it all put back together and it does not pull gas to the carb.

Any words of wisdom? (there is gas in the tank

Shoebox · 07-16-2023, 06:12 PM

I guess I'd disconnect the line TO the pump (at the pump), have someone turn engine over and with your finger over the fuel pump port to see if you can sense suction. If no suction, then you know the issue is the pump OR the actuation of the pump. I'm sure those wiser than me will chime in with additional recommendations.

drolston · 07-16-2023, 10:21 PM

With the fuel pump removed from its mount on the intake manifold, crank the engine to confirm that the push rod moves about 0.2". If it doesn't, check to be sure it dropped into the bore over the cam.
Before mounting the pump, work the pump lever by hand to ensure that it creates a vacuum at the inlet port. If it doesn't, take the pump apart to be sure the diaphragm is not torn and the little flapper valves are clean and intact.

If all is well there, install the pump. When you install the pump, you should feel the push rod move the lever against the spring force on the lever. Even if the push rod is at the bottom of its stroke. If no spring resistance when installing, the push rod may be too short.
If that all works, crank the engine with the fuel line disconnected from the carb (ignition off, of course); it should squirt about a teaspoon with each stroke. The possibility exists that the pump was working all along, but the float valve in the carb was stuck shut. The short term remedy for that is to blast some carb cleaner into the inlet port on the carb. The long term fix is to replace the float valve with the Grosse ball type valve.

Flathead Fever · 07-17-2023, 05:32 PM

If it has a braided cloth fuel line at the firewall the rubber hose will crack and suck air and you will not be able to see it because of the cloth covering. I had a '57 T-bird do that with an NOS hose that looked perfect on the outside and felt nice and flexible. Recently a friends' AV8 had a repro cloth fuel hose crack that was only a couple months old.

Gezer · 07-20-2023, 03:03 PM

Went thru all the steps D.Rolston suggested and no luck getting fuel to the Carb.
Any more input would be welcome.

marko39 · 07-20-2023, 03:23 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Did you try priming it?

scicala · 07-23-2023, 11:23 AM

I know it probaly doesn't mean anything in this case, but I thought in '51 the engines were 8BA's and EAB's were '52 and '53.

Sal

jplutz · 07-23-2023, 02:13 PM

8BA's were mfg'd from 49 thru 53. They were in all the cars with IFS. It looks like a 41 in the avatar.

38 coupe · 07-23-2023, 02:57 PM

Technically 8BA were 1949 through 1951 Ford motors, but the identification is typically used for all 1949 through 1953 flathead V8s.

The list if identifications I am aware of:
1948-1952 Ford truck: 8RT (note that 48-51 engines used 8BA marked cylinder heads, can be confusing)
1949-1951 Ford passenger car: 8BA
1952-1953 Ford passenger car: EAB
1949-1950 Mercury: 8CM
1951 Mercury: 1CM
1952-1953 Mercury: EAC (I think, maybe EAM??)
Industrial 239 engine: 8RNN
there may be others

cas3 · 07-23-2023, 04:08 PM

Sometimes when the whole system is dry, they can be hard to get going. Take the tank line off the pump, have someone turn the motor over, and see if you can feel it sucking with your finger, or vacuum gauge. Should get some kinda action there. On stubborn ones I have had someone turn over the motor while giving a shot of air into the gas tank. Just a rag around the air gun, some short bursts, no big pressure, and be aware its very flammable fumes leaking out around the rag, take precaution! Even the slightest air leak at any connections, or a crack or pin hole in a line somewhere will make trouble with a new system. I would squirt some gas in the input side of the pump too, might help seal the valves for the initial start. good luck

scicala · 07-23-2023, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

Technically 8BA were 1949 through 1951 Ford motors, but the identification is typically used for all 1949 through 1953 flathead V8s.

The list if identifications I am aware of:
1948-1952 Ford truck: 8RT (note that 48-51 engines used 8BA marked cylinder heads, can be confusing)
1949-1951 Ford passenger car: 8BA
1952-1953 Ford passenger car: EAB
1949-1950 Mercury: 8CM
1951 Mercury: 1CM
1952-1953 Mercury: EAC (I think, maybe EAM??)
Industrial 239 engine: 8RNN
there may be others

Good info 38 Coupe,

I believe the only real difference between the 8BA and the EAB was the higher compression with the EAB heads, and slightly higher HP in '52 and '53.
There may have been other differences too. Not sure.

Sal

jplutz · 07-24-2023, 04:49 PM

Thanks for the info, 38 Coupe & sicala. There is always something to learn in the Barn. Glancing at various problems can bring a wealth of info, especially for us newbies. JPL

jplutz · 07-24-2023, 05:23 PM

Also, for the pump problem, I just rebuilt my fuel pump(it's now an EAB) with a Namco kit. The first try didn't have much suction. One of the valves didn't seat properly, and when I reopened the chamber I realized that the bellows wasn't lined up properly. It is a directional piece and was 180degrees out. If the screw holes appear slightly twisted from the housing, then the bellows should be removed and reinstalled so that all the holes line up. A twisted bellows will create leaks as will poorly seated valves. Lukily, I did not damage the original valves and was able to reuse one after cleaning.
When I reassembled the pump, it was clearly creating suction when actuated. And when I installed it I heard it sucking when it pushed against the pump rod to line up the bolt holes.

cas3 · 07-24-2023, 07:40 PM

A tip I got from a pump rebuilder. When you assemble the bellows, or diaphragm, install all the screws loose, then stroke the pump, and then tighten down the screws while its stroked. This will leave some slack in it so its not stretched every time it strokes.

rotorwrench · 07-25-2023, 12:41 PM

Cylinder heads and blocks were two different part numbers. Heads were to fit different applications such as passenger car, truck, and Mercury specific. The blocks did go through changes between 1948 and 1953. Don't forget about the 1948 F series trucks, They were the beginning of the 8BA era and were produced alongside the 59 series blocks that year. The 1BA block for 1951 changed the valve train and whether there were hardened valve seats or not depended on the application. All other parts were bolted on and are interchangeable among the 8BA family of engines.

EAB heads were produced for the 1952 Ford passenger car model year till the end of production. Mercury cars and trucks used different part number heads. Mercury has 8CM, 1CM. and EAC prefix heads. Ford passenger cars had 8BA and EAB heads. Trucks mostly had 8RT heads.

I imagine there were a lot of family engine swaps over the years for one reason or another. Freeze cracks were abundant in the 1957 and 1964 Blizzards where I came from in Kansas.

07-16-2023, 05:19 PM	#1
Gezer Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 98	51 eab v8 I just put a new fuel pump from Charlie Price at Vintage Speed and pump push rod in my 51 EAB stock flathead. Push rod was bad. New Push rod from Van Pelt is 10.064 long for 49-53 EAB for cast iron intake. Have it all put back together and it does not pull gas to the carb. Any words of wisdom? (there is gas in the tank

07-16-2023, 06:12 PM	#2
Shoebox Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Holmen,Wisconsin Posts: 788	Re: 51 eab v8 I guess I'd disconnect the line TO the pump (at the pump), have someone turn engine over and with your finger over the fuel pump port to see if you can sense suction. If no suction, then you know the issue is the pump OR the actuation of the pump. I'm sure those wiser than me will chime in with additional recommendations. __________________ I went, I saw, I bought the T shirt 51 Ford Deluxe Tudor 32 Ford roadster 39 Mercury Towncar

07-16-2023, 10:21 PM	#3
drolston Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 1,638	Re: 51 eab v8 With the fuel pump removed from its mount on the intake manifold, crank the engine to confirm that the push rod moves about 0.2". If it doesn't, check to be sure it dropped into the bore over the cam. Before mounting the pump, work the pump lever by hand to ensure that it creates a vacuum at the inlet port. If it doesn't, take the pump apart to be sure the diaphragm is not torn and the little flapper valves are clean and intact. If all is well there, install the pump. When you install the pump, you should feel the push rod move the lever against the spring force on the lever. Even if the push rod is at the bottom of its stroke. If no spring resistance when installing, the push rod may be too short. If that all works, crank the engine with the fuel line disconnected from the carb (ignition off, of course); it should squirt about a teaspoon with each stroke. The possibility exists that the pump was working all along, but the float valve in the carb was stuck shut. The short term remedy for that is to blast some carb cleaner into the inlet port on the carb. The long term fix is to replace the float valve with the Grosse ball type valve.

07-17-2023, 05:32 PM	#4
Flathead Fever Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,102	Re: 51 eab v8 If it has a braided cloth fuel line at the firewall the rubber hose will crack and suck air and you will not be able to see it because of the cloth covering. I had a '57 T-bird do that with an NOS hose that looked perfect on the outside and felt nice and flexible. Recently a friends' AV8 had a repro cloth fuel hose crack that was only a couple months old.

07-20-2023, 03:03 PM	#5
Gezer Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 98	Re: 51 eab v8 Went thru all the steps D.Rolston suggested and no luck getting fuel to the Carb. Any more input would be welcome.

07-20-2023, 03:23 PM	#6
marko39 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: harpursville ny Posts: 1,055	Re: 51 eab v8 Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Did you try priming it?

07-23-2023, 11:23 AM	#7
scicala Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Detroit suburb, MI Posts: 3,712	Re: 51 eab v8 I know it probaly doesn't mean anything in this case, but I thought in '51 the engines were 8BA's and EAB's were '52 and '53. Sal

07-23-2023, 02:13 PM	#8
jplutz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Marlboro, NY Posts: 105	Re: 51 eab v8 8BA's were mfg'd from 49 thru 53. They were in all the cars with IFS. It looks like a 41 in the avatar.

07-23-2023, 02:57 PM	#9
38 coupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Texas Posts: 1,690	Re: 51 eab v8 Technically 8BA were 1949 through 1951 Ford motors, but the identification is typically used for all 1949 through 1953 flathead V8s. The list if identifications I am aware of: 1948-1952 Ford truck: 8RT (note that 48-51 engines used 8BA marked cylinder heads, can be confusing) 1949-1951 Ford passenger car: 8BA 1952-1953 Ford passenger car: EAB 1949-1950 Mercury: 8CM 1951 Mercury: 1CM 1952-1953 Mercury: EAC (I think, maybe EAM??) Industrial 239 engine: 8RNN there may be others

07-23-2023, 04:08 PM	#10
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,602	Re: 51 eab v8 Sometimes when the whole system is dry, they can be hard to get going. Take the tank line off the pump, have someone turn the motor over, and see if you can feel it sucking with your finger, or vacuum gauge. Should get some kinda action there. On stubborn ones I have had someone turn over the motor while giving a shot of air into the gas tank. Just a rag around the air gun, some short bursts, no big pressure, and be aware its very flammable fumes leaking out around the rag, take precaution! Even the slightest air leak at any connections, or a crack or pin hole in a line somewhere will make trouble with a new system. I would squirt some gas in the input side of the pump too, might help seal the valves for the initial start. good luck

07-24-2023, 04:49 PM	#12
jplutz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Marlboro, NY Posts: 105	Re: 51 eab v8 Thanks for the info, 38 Coupe & sicala. There is always something to learn in the Barn. Glancing at various problems can bring a wealth of info, especially for us newbies. JPL

07-24-2023, 05:23 PM	#13
jplutz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Marlboro, NY Posts: 105	Re: 51 eab v8 Also, for the pump problem, I just rebuilt my fuel pump(it's now an EAB) with a Namco kit. The first try didn't have much suction. One of the valves didn't seat properly, and when I reopened the chamber I realized that the bellows wasn't lined up properly. It is a directional piece and was 180degrees out. If the screw holes appear slightly twisted from the housing, then the bellows should be removed and reinstalled so that all the holes line up. A twisted bellows will create leaks as will poorly seated valves. Lukily, I did not damage the original valves and was able to reuse one after cleaning. When I reassembled the pump, it was clearly creating suction when actuated. And when I installed it I heard it sucking when it pushed against the pump rod to line up the bolt holes.

07-24-2023, 07:40 PM	#14
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,602	Re: 51 eab v8 A tip I got from a pump rebuilder. When you assemble the bellows, or diaphragm, install all the screws loose, then stroke the pump, and then tighten down the screws while its stroked. This will leave some slack in it so its not stretched every time it strokes.

07-25-2023, 12:41 PM	#15
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,498	Re: 51 eab v8 Cylinder heads and blocks were two different part numbers. Heads were to fit different applications such as passenger car, truck, and Mercury specific. The blocks did go through changes between 1948 and 1953. Don't forget about the 1948 F series trucks, They were the beginning of the 8BA era and were produced alongside the 59 series blocks that year. The 1BA block for 1951 changed the valve train and whether there were hardened valve seats or not depended on the application. All other parts were bolted on and are interchangeable among the 8BA family of engines. EAB heads were produced for the 1952 Ford passenger car model year till the end of production. Mercury cars and trucks used different part number heads. Mercury has 8CM, 1CM. and EAC prefix heads. Ford passenger cars had 8BA and EAB heads. Trucks mostly had 8RT heads. I imagine there were a lot of family engine swaps over the years for one reason or another. Freeze cracks were abundant in the 1957 and 1964 Blizzards where I came from in Kansas.