No more VT registrations for out of state

[351cmach]

Originally Posted by ronn

351 you'll never get ANY state dmv to sign off on that form. again, all about revenue.

Have you read it?

Originally Posted by ronn

Please read the form. No state is going to give the go ahead on riding around with out of state plates.

If in doubt, contact YOUR DMV!

looking forward to who here gets the go ahead to drive around with VT plates in another state.
Please do let us all know........... that would be terrific! Im all for it.

I have read it, have you? It says comparable agency. What is that exactly? It does't say.

I said you might still be possible. Did you read what I wrote?

I was just putting it out there, because some people take forums as the gospel truth and don't due their due diligence.

[ronn]

man Ild love to see a few folks get that paper through.............

Ild almost place a bet, a very fair one. I have read it and printed it out. I see no way around it. Of course if your next door neighbor works for dmv..........
anything is possible then. Im not that fortunate.
Easier for me to just go through NY at this point, which is very simple, just a pia because you must insure every car before getting it titled. A wierd law here.

Now to think out of the box, you could get a post office box in VT and...........

[Russell Reay]

I lived in VT all my life (not quite yet) and was surprised when I saw a Model A with 1931 plates on the road. I asked the owner about this, and he pulled a current plate from under his front seat along with a current registration. He explained that several years ago some antique car owners worked with DMV to be allowed to display YOM plates as long as they also had correct current registration. I found a matching pair of 1930 VT plates at a swap meet, and plan to use them when I put my huckster on the road in NH. I will have proper current registration just in case.

[Keith True]

N.H. has been allowing the use of YOM plates for many years now.They started out by allowing the use of one on the front,with the regular antique plate on the rear.When the sky didn't fall after doing this for a couple of years,they allowed the use for both front and rear.You have to register the car in normal fashion,with regular antique plates,then certify the YOM plates.Just show your YOM plates,and a copy of the registration,.and they fill out a little paper for you to carry.It is free,no fees involved.Also,I was informed at the DMV desk in Concord when I took my first pair in to be certified that out of state plates could be used too.I have a pair of 1928 Mass plates with a little codfish on them on my 28 phaeton.I have to carry my state issued antique plates under the seat at all times.

[Russell Reay]

Originally Posted by Keith True

N.H. has been allowing the use of YOM plates for many years now.They started out by allowing the use of one on the front,with the regular antique plate on the rear.When the sky didn't fall after doing this for a couple of years,they allowed the use for both front and rear.You have to register the car in normal fashion,with regular antique plates,then certify the YOM plates.Just show your YOM plates,and a copy of the registration,.and they fill out a little paper for you to carry.It is free,no fees involved.Also,I was informed at the DMV desk in Concord when I took my first pair in to be certified that out of state plates could be used too.I have a pair of 1928 Mass plates with a little codfish on them on my 28 phaeton.I have to carry my state issued antique plates under the seat at all times.

Good to know

[ronn]

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VT dmvs are all closed down due to extreme flooding. still waiting on one last reg......

[ronn]

got my last reg and the "new" letter informing me that VT is no more, wo written consent from your state.

so all my future titling is going to be in NY.

[spdway1]

Good, stop circumventing the process and pay the applicable registration & taxes IN THE STATE YOU LIVE!

[Bruce of MN]

Originally Posted by spdway1

Good, stop circumventing the process and pay the applicable registration & taxes IN THE STATE YOU LIVE!

My impression is that most folks who used VT registration did it to get a title so that they could register it in their own state. It could be faulted as facilitating "laundering" of stolen cars, but I don't think Model As fall into the stolen and retitled category. Some states are very bureaucratic and realistically prevent what should be legitimate retitling. A friend bought an abandoned Model T where the previous owner was long dead and was able to utilize the VT system to end up with the car licensed in his state, with no loss of revenue to anyone and a T back on the road.

[ronn]

so Bruce, you understand the process........

I never have a problem in NY with the antiques, but many states wont give you a title, even if you give them your first born. lol

Ive known more then a few people whove had a problem titling in Mass

[Banditorama]

Originally Posted by spdway1

Good, stop circumventing the process and pay the applicable registration & taxes IN THE STATE YOU LIVE!

I pay the state tax on my income, tax on my property, tax on the gas I buy, yearly property tax on all my vehicles, tax when I bought the car, taxes on the beer I buy, the tax on my water bill, and all the other state taxes I can't think of off the top of my head. The founding fathers would be appalled at how much the government steals from its citizens if they were around today

But that's neither here nor there, a lot of states make the process of getting a title for a vehicle near impossible for anyone besides the last person who's name was on the title. That was the beauty of the Vermont loophole. It probably saved countless cars from ending up in the junkyard

[christian]

Shockingly just received a VT registration renewal in the mail yesterday which I wasn't expecting. Immediately submitted for a 2 year renewal online. The payment went through so we'll see what turns up in the mail. I know a lot of you look down on VT reg but many of us here live in very difficult to register states where this is really the only viable legal option.

[Joe K]

But that's neither here nor there, a lot of states make the process of getting a title for a vehicle near impossible for anyone besides the last person who's name was on the title. That was the beauty of the Vermont loophole. It probably saved countless cars from ending up in the junkyard

My own Cow Hampshire experience was similar. About 2010 I purchased a September 1930 AA truck running frame from a seller in Connecticut. The Truck had been used by a construction company to haul a welder - and had 26K ORIGINAL Miles on the vehicle. The original paint, all the original springs, bushings/clevises all in good shape and not wallered out. I even had the desirable "Warford" overdrive for it.

No CT title. All he had for me was a "bill of sale" which showed the VID, the mileage, his name and the name of the original owner. It was signed showing him as the recipient - a bill of sale which he quickly "appended" (i.e. hand wrote) a bill of sale transfer to me on the back. Which like his on the front I duly signed.

I owned the rolling chassis for about five years. Out of the weather in my barn it was a project which I wasn't getting to (Job change - field engineering doesn't leave much time at home for personal projects. Your time becomes more valuable keeping the home base together.)

Condensation was raising havoc with the frame. Underneath on the concrete floor was lines of "peeled paint" as the frame was rusting under the original paint and the paint dropped off.

I decided to "sell out" while I had something to sell.

A Texas buyer showed up but wanted to be sure the vehicle came with a title. Texas is tough on things like that apparently.

So I took the bill of sale and applied at the NH Registry of Motor Vehicles for a NH Title. I received the application and for (then) a $15 fee I could have a legitimate NH title after "confirmation." "Attach copies of original documentation" was all the state had to add.

Confirmation was a duly appointed officer of the court visually confirming the VID matched the Bill of Sale and my application of title. A nice looking blue suited female officer arrived one afternoon and was pleased to learn that on the Model AA, the numbers appear both on the engine and the frame - and the numbers for me "matched."

Well I was trying to guarantee my confirmation.

A week later I received my title - which when the Texas buyer arrived I signed over to him. And a NEW bill of sale typed on the computer using a standard vehicle format.

He didn't want any questions either...

I regret letting that AA frame go. I don't think the engine had ever been opened for "tightening."


Joe K

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by Banditorama

I pay the state tax on my income, tax on my property, tax on the gas I buy, yearly property tax on all my vehicles, tax when I bought the car, taxes on the beer I buy, the tax on my water bill, and all the other state taxes I can't think of off the top of my head. The founding fathers would be appalled at how much the government steals from its citizens if they were around today

But that's neither here nor there, a lot of states make the process of getting a title for a vehicle near impossible for anyone besides the last person who's name was on the title. That was the beauty of the Vermont loophole. It probably saved countless cars from ending up in the junkyard

In my state that is the point. The states do not actually want the older cars on the road (for various reasons). However, my state makes it difficult, as you say. There is a way to get a title, but you have to hire an attorney, file a case in your county. Then you and your attorney need to sit down with the judge (usually his/her office not the courtroom) and explain how you ended up with the car, and why you need the title, what research you have done, etc. Then a judge will grant you wish, and give you a letter. Take the letter and tow the car to a State Highway Patrol Inspection Station. FYI; they require appointments, and may keep the car overnight. If the car is not stolen, and the frame numbers etc check out to their satisfaction they will issue a VIN tag, and generally affix it themselves. That VIN and the title you eventually will end up with is good in all 50 states. The highway patrol inspector will give you paperwork, and you can take that to your local county courthouse and they will issue you a title.

The judges secretary told me about 10 years ago that they used to not get more than two or three of these cases a year. She said they seem to get one or two a month now.

I had to deal with thins type of thing, but it was a bit diff in WV. I bought a 1936 Plymouth streetrod, and the Plymouth affixed the VIN tag back in the day with two "carpet tacks". Needless to say that tag was long gone.

In my case we settled all this before I layed out any significant cash.

I did buy a 1963 Pontiac Bonneville convertible some years back on a bill-of-sale from California, and that was no problem.

[Gene F]

I might add, it is WAY EASIER to coach the current owner through getting their title REPLACED than it is to go through all of this.

[ronn]

sure Gene, if the current owner hasnt passed. then your S outta luck!


Many many good reason for having used VT in the past. Unfortunately, some only think its to circumvent taxes or such. Not always the case.
each situation is unique.


BTW Gene, have never heard of people from a state cry so much about titling as OH. Everyone there moans and moans..........

[Synchro909]

I don't understand your system of cars with titles. Is it to prevent stolen cars being "rebirthed"?
I have a friend who had his Model A stolen in the US a couple of years ago and no sign has been found of it since. The only way I can see that could happen is that the car no longer exists and parts from it are running around in other cars. How could that be?
My friend would dearly love to get his car back again.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I don't understand your system of cars with titles.

Titling is a "legal" recognition of your ownership. That is all.

We do the same thing here with houses/real estate.

Without titling, houses/property/cars could be sold by simple "bill of sale" - which is SEVERELY PRONE to being forged. All you have with a bill of sale is the previous owner "cedes" all right to the item to you, and gives you his word that he truly owns what he is selling in exchange for your money.

But what if the previous Owner doesn't actually "own" what he claims to?

Usually for real estate, getting a title includes a "title search" which you hire (usually) a lawyer to do and he goes back into the official records of that property and "checks it out." He looks at tax bills, he looks at any extant bills of sale, he may even look at bank activity of the former (alive) owner to see if what he claims is correct - or if there can there be some "defect" to that title. An "easement" maybe sold by him (i.e. some "right" that you have with ownership but which you sell for cash money previouslyI)

When I was purchasing land to build my house here is Cow Hampshire, I looked at a parcel of land in South Hampton, NH - which at the time was pretty "rural." There had been some development and established building lots but a large portion of the town was held by large landholders and for whom the land had become "generational." Too many generations without a title search and the actual ownership (i.e. title) can become "clouded." Land split between sons, land exchanged one for one with cousins. Transfers of titles written on the backs of bar menu. All that sort of thing.

The land I had in mind had not clear title. The nearest I could get to it was a quit-claim deed from about 1690 which indicated the parcel was known as "Morrill's Lot," which it was as the adjacent hay field to a local 18th century homestead. Taxes were infrequently assessed, and a bit less frequently paid. It is a wonder and a testament to the ancestral owners connection to town politics that the land had not been taken in lieu of taxes.

I gave the land holder (it's generous to call him "owner.") 90 days to provide clear title, and I gave an offer 5K ABOVE the asking price if he could do that. No reply in 90 days and I sent along my "offer withdrawn" letter.

The land was ultimately sold and built upon, but builders take upon themselves straightening out titles as part of their risk of business. It took several years. Time which I did not have.

For automobiles, a title is a good thing. The state actually does a better job of tracking titles/VIDs than it does with most real-estate. And perhaps that is the problem? Compared to real-estate, titling for an automobile is a "very narrow" informational field - and justification for state existence in the activity is generally easily and early achieved. That is unless the state makes it appear more onerous than it really is.

And that may be the point. Someone justifying their existence.

Still, a title is an advantage and a security assurance for both parties in the transfer of property.

Think back to above where I give my description of "generating" a title for a September 1930 Model AA truck bought in another state. Given only an original bill of sale from 10 years earlier - and the vehicle in my possession, and that was enough legal background for the NH to accept my claim/ownership as legitimate, and give me a legal recognition of my ownership?

Not even any road or vehicle taxes paid on that. Not even a previous registration. (which proves it was a legitimate inspection worthy road vehicle.)

Cow Hampshire is known for "doing things next to the edge of envelope" - this may be one of them.

Joe K

[Synchro909]

Your description of land titles is right up my alley. I was a Licensed Land Surveyor which means my work was recognised as the final word when it cane to land titles so I know that your system is very cumbersome. It was used as an example of what was in store for us if we hadn't thrown out that system out back in 1862. We started with a similar system but within about 40 years, the shortcomings were becoming clear so a new system was put in place. When we sell a parcel of land, a title search involves nothing more than a check of the most recent and therefore current title - no need to go back any further, the system, based on the work of land surveyors, is guaranteed correct by the State Government and there has never been a claim. Obviously, if the Government is going to guarantee the title, they don't grant a license to just anyone. The candidate's qualifications, previous work, character and employment history are all checked.
"Transfers of titles written on the backs of bar menu. All that sort of thing." do not happen here. They wouldn't be recognised by any court - and that is the acid test.
As for cars, the controlling Government department keeps records for each car. When one is sold, the seller must notify the department (VicRoads, here) and the buyer must notify that he has bought it. Any money owed on the car is readily available to a prospective buyer so that HE pays out the finance, paying the seller only the balance. If either party fails to notify the sale or purchase, serious issues soon follow and it is sorted out. If the seller does not notify, any fines issued (say, speed cameras or tolls) are booked to him. If the buyer fails to notify, he can't insure the car and no renewal notice will be sent to him. No registration means no Compulsory Third Party Insurance. CTPI only covers payments for medical treatment for anybody injured in a crash - NOT damage to property. The car is identified by its registration number, not engine or chassis number (VIN)
I have made that sound more complicated than it is but it is quite rigorous and easy.

[ronn]

so Synchro- getting back to your friends car,


It most likely did get parted out. However, there are many ways to retitle a car illegally.
Since motor numbers are generally used in the US to title a car- just chg motors and you now have a different car. Grind the block down and restamp- you now have a different car. It goes on and on......... a crook will find a way.


so if your car is ever stolen. it may be very difficult to get your car back.


of course, looking at model A values, not many are really ever stolen. Thieves prefer a Van Gogh............