LZ gears, how do I know?

[Ralph Moore]

I just opened up a spare tranny I have and was wondering how do I tell which gears I have? A few small metal pieces in the bottom, but the oil looks fresh and the gears look good. It had a LZ u-joint , but it was worn out.

[Karl Wolf]

Count the teeth on the front of the cluster, 25 or 26 would be what is called L-Z, 28 or 29 would be Ford... Count the teeth on the main drive (incoming) 18 or 19 will be L-Z, 15 or 16 will be Ford... Karl

[CWPASADENA]

It appears you have a gear set that is too early to be Lincoln.

You can also count the teeth on the input shaft gear. Lincoln will be either 18 or 19 to go with 26 or 25 tooth clusters. Ford were either 15 or 16 teeth to go with 29 or 28 tooth clusters.

The Ford 3 speed transmissions from 1932 thru 1948 all have the total number of teeth of the main drive and big gear on the cluster always adding up to 44. Ford transmissions were either 16-28 or 15-29. Lincoln Transmissions (with the "Good" Gears) were either 18-26 or 19-25. Earlier Lincoln Top Shifter Transmissions used the same gears as Ford.

Second gear on the "Good" Lincoln Gear Sets had 24 teeth, Ford were 22 teeth.

This may not be true for V-8 "60" Transmissions.

This is my understanding.

Chris

[Mart]

The box appears to have the later separate synchro rings, but the synchro sleeve looks like an earlier one, unless I'm just seeing it wrong - dont the later type synchro sleeve have an offset groove?

I'm a bit puzzled over this one.

Mart.

[Hoop]

This the second thread in about a week about strange transmission configurations.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...highlight=guru

Ralph, see if the synchro sleeve/hub (where the fork fits into) rotates with any slop. If it is not tight on the shaft, it does not belong there. It's possible for someone to stick the earlier synchro into a later gear set (but not the other way around) ... it will not engage 2nd or 3rd (which I don't think it is in the picture). It's hard to tell exactly what the previous "mechanic" did for sure. Maybe Charlie or Mac can add something.

Some of this may be caused by the growing popularity of "39 top-loaders" targeting unwary buyers. Surprising how many "39's" are showing up at swap meets.

(Chris, I was told and always thought the gears added up to 44. Check out 11Y-7017 ... 14 teeth ... with a 29 tooth cluster. Recently came across one.)

[SUHRsc]

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just by eye... looks like 28tooth to me...
for the "lincoln gears" usually the very front gear is almost the same size as the synchro teeth...

counting them is the only way to tell though...
good luck!
Zach

[Greg in Jax]

Hoop is right about the 14 tooth input gear. It is out of a V8-60 commercial transmission, so same gearsets as the 85hp, not the little V8-60 box. Just when you think you know what Ford built... Happens every time.

[Robert Dip]

Lincoln-Zephyr Cars
1936-48 All
Note: Lincoln and Zephyr cars had the same gears as Ford transmissions from 1936-39. The higher ratio gears did not come out until 1940 but could have been installed in a 36-39 gearbox.

With the 25-22-18-14
Cluster Gear and the 19 tooth Main Drive Gear

I have a few LZ 25 tooth gearsets, and the input shaft is very easy to recognize...teeth are larger diameter that the syncros, and there are two curved slots removing syncro teeth to clear the gears during assembly.

Site below describes the different Ford gearsets.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_trans-gearratios.htm

[Ralph Moore]

I counted them, 16 on the input shaft, 28 front of cluster, Ford from the info given.
The synchro hub seems tight, will slide back and forth without excessive play. The transmission came out of a 38 that had been hot rodded back in the day(I'm guessing 60's-70's from the engine it was attached to). I thought they may have put Zepher gears in with all the mods that were done to the engine.

[PeteVS]

Traditional wisdom is that Zephyr gears are at their best advantage in small, light cars with a substantial engine. The "Gotta have the best" guys put them in larger, heavier cars because they cost more and they can brag that, "My car has Zephyr gears." Then, they find out that they have trouble getting going from a dead stop. Although they were originally used in the bigger, heavier Lincolns, they were always accompanied by 4.11 rear end gears and an overdrive for cruising at speed.

[Mart]

Something still looks odd in those pics to me.

Was the gearbox ever driven?

Any chance of a pic with the synchro sleeve moved centrally on the hub?

Mart.

[rotorwrench]

Ya, those early synchro hubs usually didn't use blocker rings at all and there are brass blocker rings in there for sure.

Kerby

[Ralph Moore]

here are a couple more pics, and yes the car must have been driven this way, as we dissasembled it from sitting after a long period, and the trans did not appear to have been touched since running.

[svm99]

Originally Posted by Mart

The box appears to have the later separate synchro rings, but the synchro sleeve looks like an earlier one, unless I'm just seeing it wrong - dont the later type synchro sleeve have an offset groove?

I'm a bit puzzled over this one.

Mart.

So am I Mart, there is another set of synchro teeth in there!! I didn't even know there is enough room, I'd like to see this one after it came apart.
Paul J.

[Hoop]

"I'd like to see this one after it came apart."

First of all ... and it's just me ... but I definitely would not install that transmission and run it without taking it apart.

(On the other hand, maybe Ralph will go ahead and install it, then report back ... )

Normally the late brass blocker synchro will not even fit into the early hub.

[Ralph Moore]

So your saying there's one too many?, What would be the reason for doing that? Smoother shifting? I wasn't planning on dissasembling this one, but now I'm curious.

[Mac VP]

Basically I see an early style (32-38) synchro sleeve installed over a 1939-54 style synchro hub. In itself, this presents a problem....the fork groove in the sleeve is centered where the 1939-54 sleeves have the fork groove offset to the rear. In other words, the groove would not align correctly with the shifter fork (and who knows which fork you have in there).

Also, I can't tell if the hub is the 01A type (has 3 holes for 3 balls/springs) or the 51A type (no holes). In my opinion, the trans should be disassembled and checked for the correct parts....then reassembled with the right pieces to the correct clearances.

[Ralph Moore]

Now I'm worried about my other tranny that's been "rebuilt". I'll have to open it up and look at the differences. It's a 37 so if correct I should notice it right off.
I have a Ford booklet with tranny specs, but are there some better rebuild books out there?

[Ralph Moore]

I just found the book in another transmission thread last posted on yesterday.

[PeteVS]

Originally Posted by Ralph Moore

Now I'm worried about my other tranny that's been "rebuilt". I'll have to open it up and look at the differences. It's a 37 so if correct I should notice it right off.
I have a Ford booklet with tranny specs, but are there some better rebuild books out there?

Vern Tardel has a small book on transmissions that sort of covers the "what I should have" kind of things. Mac Van Pelt (see his post above) has a much more definitive book that covers a broader spectrum of the transmissions.