The Ford Barn

SoCalCoupe · 02-04-2023, 04:39 PM

Stupid question but I just have to ask.

I have a big Tubman "trash can" condensor for my 1941 Ford and don't know how to install it. This is a helmet distributor and the coil screws to the distributor. I think:

1. The clamp goes around the case of the condensor and uses the screw that attaches the coil to the distributor, grounding the condensor to the distributor.
2. One end of the wire attaches to the condensor post and the other end attaches to the brass tab that sticks out on the outside of the distributor.

Sound right?

tubman · 02-04-2023, 05:01 PM

I'm an "8BA guy", so I haven't done this. I have sold a bunch to guys who have, so maybe one of them will jump in.

SoCalCoupe · 02-04-2023, 07:28 PM

Well, right or wrong, that's the way I hooked it up. It fired instantly.

Still would like to hear from people in the know if that's ok. I don't want to fry anything.

Also, saw something on an old post about different micro-Farad ratings for helmets versus 8BA distributors. Did I outsmart myself and install something that's not going to serve me well? Wouldn't be the first time I've done something like that.

tubman · 02-04-2023, 07:46 PM

I have done a lot of work on condensers over the last few years, and one of the first things I learned was that the actual capacitance of the condenser doesn't make much difference (within reason). Current day "FLAPS" condensers are in the mid .20's micro-farad range, while the early Mallory trash cans were nominally .36 micro-farads. The ideal capacitance for a specific engine varies with multiple factors, the chief of which are engine speed and coil inductance. Thus, all condensers are compromises. Modern coils (including I believe a coil rebuilt by "Skip") all seem to like the mid .20's variety. Thus, since original working Ford coils are extremely rare, the lower rated condensers seem to be a better fit for just about all uses. I build mine with .22 micro-farad capacitors.

If the capacitance is a bit off, it can be reflected in premature point wear (actually the transference of material from one contact to another) caused by changing electrical environment. Theoretically, a condenser whose rating causes material to be deposited on the negative contact at idle may actually transfer material the other way at high speed. The bottom line is that I have been running these myself for 7 years and selling them (over 400 units) for 6 without a single failure.

Class dismissed

mcgarrett · 02-04-2023, 07:53 PM

You got it right. I do it all the time with other "modern" style condensers with the pigtail wire and have had no problems. The biggest challenge is finding good quality American made condensers - they are the only ones that hold up. I don't trust the aftermarket condensers, even new ones...other that the ones tubman makes. I've hear so many glowing reviews so they must be good!

SoCalCoupe · 02-04-2023, 09:16 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

Modern coils (including I believe a coil rebuilt by "Skip") all seem to like the mid .20's variety. Thus, since original working Ford coils are extremely rare, the lower rated condensers seem to be a better fit for just about all uses. I build mine with .22 micro-farad capacitors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

You got it right. .....The biggest challenge is finding good quality American made condensers - they are the only ones that hold up. I don't trust the aftermarket condensers, even new ones...other that the ones tubman makes. I've hear so many glowing reviews so they must be good!

This was an optional mini-project. Car runs fine now but I've heard quite a few complaints and "car just died" stories related to coils and condensors. Just for peace-of-mind I pulled out the canister coil conversion kit that came with the car along with the no-name coil and condensor and replaced them with a Skip Haney coil and Tubman condensor.

It's a little dirty; need to get in there and do some cleaning. [Edit: I need to get in there and repristinate it.] I drive it more than I look at it. Sorry for the pink wire. It was the heaviest gauge I had so I opted to use that rather than a smaller gauge. I'll get another color later.

Of course it took a trip to the Home Depot. After removing the kit, I didn't have the right length screws and bolts.

Like I said, car fired right up. Let it run for just a minute; can't wait for a test drive tomorrow.

Brian · 02-04-2023, 10:58 PM

That looks like a tidy installation; you'll have no worries now using those fine gentlemen's components.

tubman · 02-05-2023, 09:16 AM

"SoCal", the black lead I send with the condenser must not have been long enough. I have plenty of the black fabric covered wire and flag terminals "in stock". If you want another lead, just let me know the length and I'll make one up and send it out to you.

Veeder · 02-05-2023, 11:35 AM

Don’t forget the ignition switch and the connections up to the ignition switch as well as ignition resistor!! I placed a hidden bypass to the ignition switch when i was having some issues it proved to be very educational for me.you can’t see the contacts onnthe ignitioon switch unfortunately.
BTW worth verifying the connection where the wire comes out through the firewall.

SoCalCoupe · 02-05-2023, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

"SoCal", the black lead I send with the condenser must not have been long enough. I have plenty of the black fabric covered wire and flag terminals "in stock". If you want another lead, just let me know the length and I'll make one up and send it out to you.

Tubman, that's very thoughtful and unexpected. You certainly didn't have to offer but since you did I'll take you up on it and PM you my details.

In case anyone else want's to know, the supplied lead is 2 1/4" from the center of one hole to the other. For this application, twice that, 4 1/2" from center to center seems ideal with terminals offset 90 degrees.

Not surprising the test drive was fine, no issues.

It's a real pleasure to have a fine piece of work like this. No doubt it will achieve the objective of many years of trouble-free service.

Thanks too for the lesson on capacitance in ignition systems.

I could write a whole essay foreign sourcing, loss of quality control over the years, what happens to support for a technology as it gets older and older. On and on and on.

Brad

coolcoupe · 02-05-2023, 04:56 PM

I got tired of having to reach down (47 car) to change the condenser so I installed it beside the coil and has worked fine for 1000 miles.I did have to connect a 15'' wire from the dizzy to the new trash-can condenser fro Tubman.

SoCalCoupe · 02-18-2023, 08:26 PM

That pink lead just didn't look right. Thanks to Tubman making up a longer lead to fit the helmet installation. He didn't have to do it but it sure looks better. For anyone who's interested, I looped it around a bit because the bundle of plug wires gets in the way of a straight shot.

Like I said before, car runs really strong. Tubman condensor, Skip Haney coil.

02-04-2023, 04:39 PM	#1
SoCalCoupe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Point Loma, San Diego, CA Posts: 556	Installing a trash can condensor? Stupid question but I just have to ask. I have a big Tubman "trash can" condensor for my 1941 Ford and don't know how to install it. This is a helmet distributor and the coil screws to the distributor. I think: 1. The clamp goes around the case of the condensor and uses the screw that attaches the coil to the distributor, grounding the condensor to the distributor. 2. One end of the wire attaches to the condensor post and the other end attaches to the brass tab that sticks out on the outside of the distributor. Sound right?

02-04-2023, 05:01 PM	#2
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 12,132	Re: Installing a trash can condensor? I'm an "8BA guy", so I haven't done this. I have sold a bunch to guys who have, so maybe one of them will jump in.

02-04-2023, 07:28 PM	#3
SoCalCoupe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Point Loma, San Diego, CA Posts: 556	Re: Installing a trash can condensor? Well, right or wrong, that's the way I hooked it up. It fired instantly. Still would like to hear from people in the know if that's ok. I don't want to fry anything. Also, saw something on an old post about different micro-Farad ratings for helmets versus 8BA distributors. Did I outsmart myself and install something that's not going to serve me well? Wouldn't be the first time I've done something like that.

02-04-2023, 07:46 PM	#4
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 12,132	Re: Installing a trash can condensor? I have done a lot of work on condensers over the last few years, and one of the first things I learned was that the actual capacitance of the condenser doesn't make much difference (within reason). Current day "FLAPS" condensers are in the mid .20's micro-farad range, while the early Mallory trash cans were nominally .36 micro-farads. The ideal capacitance for a specific engine varies with multiple factors, the chief of which are engine speed and coil inductance. Thus, all condensers are compromises. Modern coils (including I believe a coil rebuilt by "Skip") all seem to like the mid .20's variety. Thus, since original working Ford coils are extremely rare, the lower rated condensers seem to be a better fit for just about all uses. I build mine with .22 micro-farad capacitors. If the capacitance is a bit off, it can be reflected in premature point wear (actually the transference of material from one contact to another) caused by changing electrical environment. Theoretically, a condenser whose rating causes material to be deposited on the negative contact at idle may actually transfer material the other way at high speed. The bottom line is that I have been running these myself for 7 years and selling them (over 400 units) for 6 without a single failure. Class dismissed Last edited by tubman; 02-04-2023 at 07:54 PM.

02-04-2023, 07:53 PM	#5
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Corsicana, Texas Posts: 1,551	Re: Installing a trash can condensor? You got it right. I do it all the time with other "modern" style condensers with the pigtail wire and have had no problems. The biggest challenge is finding good quality American made condensers - they are the only ones that hold up. I don't trust the aftermarket condensers, even new ones...other that the ones tubman makes. I've hear so many glowing reviews so they must be good!

02-04-2023, 10:58 PM	#7
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 4,097	Re: Installing a trash can condensor? That looks like a tidy installation; you'll have no worries now using those fine gentlemen's components. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

02-05-2023, 09:16 AM	#8
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 12,132	Re: Installing a trash can condensor? "SoCal", the black lead I send with the condenser must not have been long enough. I have plenty of the black fabric covered wire and flag terminals "in stock". If you want another lead, just let me know the length and I'll make one up and send it out to you.

02-05-2023, 11:35 AM	#9
Veeder Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: CT Posts: 409	Re: Installing a trash can condensor? Don’t forget the ignition switch and the connections up to the ignition switch as well as ignition resistor!! I placed a hidden bypass to the ignition switch when i was having some issues it proved to be very educational for me.you can’t see the contacts onnthe ignitioon switch unfortunately. BTW worth verifying the connection where the wire comes out through the firewall.

02-05-2023, 04:56 PM	#11
coolcoupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ontario,Canada Posts: 520	Re: Installing a trash can condensor? I got tired of having to reach down (47 car) to change the condenser so I installed it beside the coil and has worked fine for 1000 miles.I did have to connect a 15'' wire from the dizzy to the new trash-can condenser fro Tubman.

02-18-2023, 08:26 PM	#12
SoCalCoupe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Point Loma, San Diego, CA Posts: 556	Re: Installing a trash can condensor? That pink lead just didn't look right. Thanks to Tubman making up a longer lead to fit the helmet installation. He didn't have to do it but it sure looks better. For anyone who's interested, I looped it around a bit because the bundle of plug wires gets in the way of a straight shot. Like I said before, car runs really strong. Tubman condensor, Skip Haney coil.