The Ford Barn

shew01 · 05-08-2022, 03:02 PM

When I apply the brakes, I’ve been hearing a pulsating squeal. Initially, I thought it was the drum rubbing against the backing plate on the passenger side rear wheel. So, I added an axle shim. That didn’t cure it. So, I added a second axle shim. That didn’t cure it either. So, I plan to remove the shims when I repack the rear wheel bearings in the next week or so.

I started repacking the front wheel bearings today, and I found some rust and some pitting in the brake drum.

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shew01 · 05-08-2022, 03:04 PM

Oops! That posted before I meant it to.

Can these drums be turned like the 1960’s and 1970’s drums could be turned?

Also, since there is rust, I’m thinking the brakes are not really engaging with the drum, correct?

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nkaminar · 05-08-2022, 05:56 PM

Yes, the rust would indicate that the brakes are not really working. You could try using some 80 grit sand paper to remove the rust from the drum and clean up the shoes. Model A drums are turned all the time and the shoes re arched to the drums. Just make sure they don't overdo it and make the drums too thin.

Are some kind of shields available to close up the holes in the drums and keep the water out?

Has the car been sitting for a while, where rust could have happened. It looks like the drums have a print of the shoes.

shew01 · 05-08-2022, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Has the car been sitting for a while, where rust could have happened. It looks like the drums have a print of the shoes.

No, we drive it at least weekly. I was really surprised by the rust. It seems to stop well.

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shew01 · 05-08-2022, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Model A drums are turned all the time and the shoes re arched to the drums. Just make sure they don't overdo it and make the drums too thin.

How does the re-arch process work? I’ve read about it in the past on this site, but search (via the TapaTalk app on my iPhone) isn’t returning anything useful.

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Bob C · 05-08-2022, 07:08 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Here's a video on shoe arcing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-ZF200ZSVs

shew01 · 05-08-2022, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

Here's a video on shoe arcing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-ZF200ZSVs

Thanks!

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Patrick L. · 05-08-2022, 07:24 PM

How did you end up with those drums ? I think they are pretty rare.
But I think they can be cleaned fairly easy. I think they may clean with elbow grease and sand paper, but, should be able to be turned to about .060" over.

Also as mentioned the shoes can be cleaned up with sand paper. You'll only sand off 10-20,000 miles [ smiley face].

To arch the shoes to the drum, remove them and put sand paper inside the drum and then rub the shoes against the drum/sand paper carefully. That'll get them pretty close to the drum shape.

It kinda sorta looks like they need a good adjustment. Or, it has pretty wet or rainy where you are.

nkaminar · 05-08-2022, 07:43 PM

The sanding technique to re arch the shoes works OK. It takes some time. It used to be that brake shops had re arching machines which basically sanded the shoes which were mounted on a holder that had a center pin and a radius adjusted equal to the drum radius. The machines have been scrapped and brake shops now just replace the shoes and drums as matched sets, if they work on drums at all. It is now difficult to find people who have the machine to re arch the shoes. Brent Terry has one in his shop in Tennessee, see https://www.model-a-ford.com/

I visited an old timer who told me that he just rode the brakes for a while to seat them in. That is one technique.

Synchro909 · 05-08-2022, 08:34 PM

If those are steel drums, they are not easy to machine. They are prone to chatter which leaves a rough surface which will devour the linings. I'd do as suggested and clean them up and seat the linings in. For that, I spray a little paint from a rattle can on the inside of the drum, refit and by only applying the brakes by hand on the lever while I turn he drum, it is easy to see where they are contacting. A bit of filing with a coarse file (flat bastard) will remove material from where there is paint. I repeat a few times till I have a decent contact area, then I go for a drive with my foot on the brake to finish the seating process. It works every time.

Herb Concord Ca · 05-08-2022, 10:09 PM

The drums shown in post #1 are late 31 cast iron drums. They are one-piece, hub and drum are made as one piece. Being cast iron they can be turned. Both my Model A's came with them. A few years ago I was able to buy a spare!

shew01 · 05-09-2022, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

How did you end up with those drums ? I think they are pretty rare.
But I think they can be cleaned fairly easy.
.
.
.
It kinda sorta looks like they need a good adjustment. Or, it has pretty wet or rainy where you are.

They came on the car. I think they are called Rocky Mountain brake drums.

Since the squeal pulsates, I’m thinking the drums may have a slight warp. Turning them should clear that up, assuming a brake shop doesn’t get carried away removing material.

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Patrick L. · 05-09-2022, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shew01

They came on the car. I think they are called Rocky Mountain brakes.

Since the squeal pulsates, I’m thinking the drums may have a slight warp. Turning them should clear that up, assuming a brake shop doesn’t get carried away removing material.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn't think there were many of those drums around. Yep, they are iron and can be turned. A shop that can turn them can also measure them.

nkaminar · 05-09-2022, 06:02 AM

The previous owner of my car replaced those type of open drums with the usual type which are not open. That is one option for you.

Herb Concord Ca · 05-09-2022, 12:41 PM

Why would you replace cast iron drums with steel drums?
The only reason I can think of, if they have already been turned too far.

1931 flamingo · 05-09-2022, 01:33 PM

Sand the brake shoes, chamfer the front and rear trailing edges. Lightly sand the drums and you should be good to go. JMO
Paul in CT

shew01 · 05-09-2022, 04:37 PM

I took the drums to a brake shop today and asked them to check for out of round and turn them the least amount possible. I’m hoping this will fix the pulsating squeal. We’ll see.

If it weren’t for the pulsating noise, I think I would have just sanded them and replaced them.

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jerrytocci · 05-09-2022, 05:07 PM

I like the squeal on my car. It's like an old movie sound effect. I have locked up all four wheels a few times in an emergency and the car stops well . If you look for problems you will be successful

nkaminar · 05-09-2022, 06:45 PM

Herb, He replaced the open drums with the usual cast iron drums.

larrys40 · 05-09-2022, 10:09 PM

As was said in post 11 they are late 31 cast iron drums. They are the drum of choice if someone has them as long as they are not too much oversized.
I can tell by your brake impression the car has sat at some point . I would suggest turning the drums just enough to clean them up to round and replace the linings with molded lining. You can arc and fit the shoes for best fit. Make sure your roller tracks and all are in excellent shape. Use a brake centering gauge to make sure all is in order with shoe contact too, bottom , center.

If you have the rear cast iron late 31 ( they are closed of course) they are excellent drums too. Typically if you have your front wheel tight and it fits the drums well the front brakes do NOT get wet. I am running them on one of my cars and have for 40 years and I do not have a problem with my brakes getting wet outside of normal rain.

Done well Model A brakes can screech to a stop, I have literally smoked the tires on my 30 tudor on a hard test stop. My 160b can also screech to a stop .
Larry Shepard

05-08-2022, 03:04 PM	#2
shew01 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Roanoke, VA USA Posts: 2,091	Brake Squeal Oops! That posted before I meant it to. Can these drums be turned like the 1960’s and 1970’s drums could be turned? Also, since there is rust, I’m thinking the brakes are not really engaging with the drum, correct? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05-08-2022, 05:56 PM	#3
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,859	Re: Brake Squeal Yes, the rust would indicate that the brakes are not really working. You could try using some 80 grit sand paper to remove the rust from the drum and clean up the shoes. Model A drums are turned all the time and the shoes re arched to the drums. Just make sure they don't overdo it and make the drums too thin. Are some kind of shields available to close up the holes in the drums and keep the water out? Has the car been sitting for a while, where rust could have happened. It looks like the drums have a print of the shoes. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

05-08-2022, 07:08 PM	#6
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 9,359	Re: Brake Squeal Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Here's a video on shoe arcing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-ZF200ZSVs

05-08-2022, 07:24 PM	#8
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Brake Squeal How did you end up with those drums ? I think they are pretty rare. But I think they can be cleaned fairly easy. I think they may clean with elbow grease and sand paper, but, should be able to be turned to about .060" over. Also as mentioned the shoes can be cleaned up with sand paper. You'll only sand off 10-20,000 miles [ smiley face]. To arch the shoes to the drum, remove them and put sand paper inside the drum and then rub the shoes against the drum/sand paper carefully. That'll get them pretty close to the drum shape. It kinda sorta looks like they need a good adjustment. Or, it has pretty wet or rainy where you are.

05-08-2022, 07:43 PM	#9
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,859	Re: Brake Squeal The sanding technique to re arch the shoes works OK. It takes some time. It used to be that brake shops had re arching machines which basically sanded the shoes which were mounted on a holder that had a center pin and a radius adjusted equal to the drum radius. The machines have been scrapped and brake shops now just replace the shoes and drums as matched sets, if they work on drums at all. It is now difficult to find people who have the machine to re arch the shoes. Brent Terry has one in his shop in Tennessee, see https://www.model-a-ford.com/ I visited an old timer who told me that he just rode the brakes for a while to seat them in. That is one technique. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

05-08-2022, 03:02 PM	#1
shew01 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Roanoke, VA USA Posts: 2,091	Brake Squeal When I apply the brakes, I’ve been hearing a pulsating squeal. Initially, I thought it was the drum rubbing against the backing plate on the passenger side rear wheel. So, I added an axle shim. That didn’t cure it. So, I added a second axle shim. That didn’t cure it either. So, I plan to remove the shims when I repack the rear wheel bearings in the next week or so. I started repacking the front wheel bearings today, and I found some rust and some pitting in the brake drum. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05-08-2022, 08:34 PM	#10
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 8,043	Re: Brake Squeal If those are steel drums, they are not easy to machine. They are prone to chatter which leaves a rough surface which will devour the linings. I'd do as suggested and clean them up and seat the linings in. For that, I spray a little paint from a rattle can on the inside of the drum, refit and by only applying the brakes by hand on the lever while I turn he drum, it is easy to see where they are contacting. A bit of filing with a coarse file (flat bastard) will remove material from where there is paint. I repeat a few times till I have a decent contact area, then I go for a drive with my foot on the brake to finish the seating process. It works every time. __________________ I sometimes wonder what happened to the people who asked me for directions. Even at my age, I still like to look at a young, attractive woman but I can't really remember why.

05-08-2022, 10:09 PM	#11
Herb Concord Ca Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Concord CA Posts: 755	Re: Brake Squeal The drums shown in post #1 are late 31 cast iron drums. They are one-piece, hub and drum are made as one piece. Being cast iron they can be turned. Both my Model A's came with them. A few years ago I was able to buy a spare!

05-09-2022, 06:02 AM	#14
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,859	Re: Brake Squeal The previous owner of my car replaced those type of open drums with the usual type which are not open. That is one option for you. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

05-09-2022, 12:41 PM	#15
Herb Concord Ca Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Concord CA Posts: 755	Re: Brake Squeal Why would you replace cast iron drums with steel drums? The only reason I can think of, if they have already been turned too far.

05-09-2022, 01:33 PM	#16
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,428	Re: Brake Squeal Sand the brake shoes, chamfer the front and rear trailing edges. Lightly sand the drums and you should be good to go. JMO Paul in CT

05-09-2022, 04:37 PM	#17
shew01 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Roanoke, VA USA Posts: 2,091	Brake Squeal I took the drums to a brake shop today and asked them to check for out of round and turn them the least amount possible. I’m hoping this will fix the pulsating squeal. We’ll see. If it weren’t for the pulsating noise, I think I would have just sanded them and replaced them. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

05-09-2022, 05:07 PM	#18
jerrytocci Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 242	Re: Brake Squeal I like the squeal on my car. It's like an old movie sound effect. I have locked up all four wheels a few times in an emergency and the car stops well . If you look for problems you will be successful

05-09-2022, 06:45 PM	#19
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,859	Re: Brake Squeal Herb, He replaced the open drums with the usual cast iron drums. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

05-09-2022, 10:09 PM	#20
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 2,032	Re: Brake Squeal As was said in post 11 they are late 31 cast iron drums. They are the drum of choice if someone has them as long as they are not too much oversized. I can tell by your brake impression the car has sat at some point . I would suggest turning the drums just enough to clean them up to round and replace the linings with molded lining. You can arc and fit the shoes for best fit. Make sure your roller tracks and all are in excellent shape. Use a brake centering gauge to make sure all is in order with shoe contact too, bottom , center. If you have the rear cast iron late 31 ( they are closed of course) they are excellent drums too. Typically if you have your front wheel tight and it fits the drums well the front brakes do NOT get wet. I am running them on one of my cars and have for 40 years and I do not have a problem with my brakes getting wet outside of normal rain. Done well Model A brakes can screech to a stop, I have literally smoked the tires on my 30 tudor on a hard test stop. My 160b can also screech to a stop . Larry Shepard Last edited by larrys40; 05-09-2022 at 11:30 PM.