Ford's welding ability

[Coupe35]

Do not have a question but I’m amazed at the welding skill ford had back in the 30”s. I’m restoring my 35 door window frames and notice after I sandblasted them, that the weld seam is invisible on the top. Underneath you can clearly see where the ends joined, but on top, there is no filler and no seam. It looks like it is one piece. I do not know how you fuse together metal like that without some sort of sign of it on top.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Coupe35

Do not have a question but I’m amazed at the welding skill ford had back in the 30”s. I’m restoring my 35 door window frames and notice after I sandblasted them, that the weld seam is invisible on the top. Underneath you can clearly see where the ends joined, but on top, there is no filler and no seam. It looks like it is one piece. I do not know how you fuse together metal like that without some sort of sign of it on top.

Because the weld is ground and/or picked and filed on the outside to make it flush. (a standard autobody procedure before Bondo)

[V12Bill]

I noticed that on the 42 - 48 Lincoln Continental front fenders, the front half is the same as the Zephyr, but the rear half is unique to the Continental. The two halves are welded together and there is no trace of a weld on the top. There are a few signs of some picking on the under side but the top side is ground smooth with no trace of lead filler. Probably some sort of MIG or TIG welding.

[Fordors]

In looking at '32 Fordor garnish moldings the door and quarter window moldings are welded at the lower corners, which in the case of a '32 are square corners. Being corners the metal finishing (if any) was slight and it looks as though an electric welding process was employed. Looks like there was extra material on both pieces that would interlock and then be welded, and the weld seems similar to a spot weld. The rear garnish is more like that on a '35, having all rounded corners. That one is welded about one inch from the top, center, mounting hole. Again, it looks like it interlocked, was welded, but with this one metal finishing was required. I'm of the opinion that there was no heavy grinding, picking or filing, just sanding, with a hand held air tool.

[Tinker]

Probably gas welded. Let me know if I'm wrong...

Mig and Tig in the 30-40s?

[Fordors]

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I think mig is from the '20's and tig for sure is from the early '40's, developed for aircraft frames. Has anyone here ever looked at how Ford joined the rear panel on a '32 (and I'm sure others) sedan? A look inside shows a jagged, somewhat slaggy, weld seam about 1/32"-1/16" wide. The quarters are welded to the rear panel, and there are pieces above the doors next to the roof canvas opening to form that portion of the roof. A weld near the quarter window and one to the rear of the A pillar fill out the roof. Bodies were started by spot welding some components, then the sheet metal fully jigged up and then welded, with the welding process automated. I never thought about it before, but that must have been mig. If the welding process had been finessed by the engineers grinding, leading and finishing could be minimal. The inside of the body, next to the welds, shows no deformation to my eye.

[Tinker]

Interesting, my 38 truck has a few areas that looked slagged as well. Very gas welded looking. Sheet metal joints.

I sure hope someone post a clarification of assembly line welding in the 20s-30s. Would like any info in the process that could be shared.

[Fordors]

Tinker, I base my assumptions on what I have seen on bodies I own and what I have seen in print. Specifically, I referenced Lorin Sorensen's "The Ford Factory" that was published in 1980 and later reprinted in the '90's by another print house. Hopefully someone else will offer their thoughts on Ford body assembly technique.

[true blue 32 man]

Hello In the hardcover book 32 Ford Deuce by Tony Thacker First published 2007 by Motorbooks MBL Publishing CO This came out for the 75th anniversary of the 32. Anyhow if you would look at chapter #1 on page 20 is a pictue from ford arcives showing a partial 4door body on a wood buck. Part of the caption reads " pcs were stamped sections clamped together.They were then seam weldedand buffed smooth" . I have noticed in my closed cars, 2dr, 4dr, 5w coupe that the 32's roof sections are usually 5pcs with the underside having a large slaggy weld and the top side is perfectly smooth. The 32 cowl was 3pcs with the same large slaggy welds on bottom and perfectly smooth on top. from this one would surmise that they were clamped in fixtures , mig welded, and then buffed smooth on top sides that show.These were probably completely automated operations even back in 32 Quite an accomplishment as there were no computer programs back then. On page 21 it showes a complete 32 5w body jigged up for the final welding assembly which was mostly spot welding. WOW really cool picture! This book is available at most public librarys. If you don't want to spend the 40 bucks to buy one. The later bodys, 37 pickup and Lincol continental were a continuation of the same process. Briggs was a personal friend of Henry Ford and Models A and 32 bodies from Briggs were constructed the same, probably with welding equipment from Ford. Murry bodies had much more structural pcs made from wood especially 4 doors Ie floors,door posts,roofs, ect. on the Model A's On the sport coupes the beltline up were all wood. Well my two cents worth.

[Bob NH]

As FORDORS has suggested if you want to see some great pictures of how Uncle Henry did things borrow a copy of Loren Sorensen's "Ford Factory" It's a wonderful book.

[Tinker]

I'll have to find me one. Thanks guys.

[FL&WVMIKE]

Coupe35 ....................
In Henry Ford's assembly line, he had workers making the same weld, eight hours a day, five days a week. I imagine that they got pretty good at it.
MIKE

[Coupe35]

I know if you do something 8 hours day, you get good at it. But for anyone that has welded, and did a good job, when you grind the weld down to the base metal and sand it, it requires a little more primer, bondo or what ever to build up that area. At least for me it does. I did not know they had automation back then.

[rotorwrench]

Ford was ahead of most manufacturers with resistance & spot welding, mig welding, and furnace brazing techniques that other manufacturers had to or wanted to steal. I think that's why you don't see so many pictures of FoMoCo's processes. They were on the cutting edge and they wanted to stay there. Corporate espionage is still a problem now days, especially with high tech programing.

[Bob NH]

Must be that cutting edge in welding took away from those poor guys working riviting frames together all day long without ear protection ? If
Ford was so far ahead, why did he never come out with hydraulic brakes till 39 when most others accepted it as the only way to go long before that time? Don't get me wrong, I love these cars like all of you guys. He was just a stubborn, cantankerous, very smart guy who ruined his son at an early age.

[rotorwrench]

No one ever said that Henry wasn't frugal. He was too tight to pay patent rights for Bendix type brakes and many other items. That's how he could build a car for 500 to 1000 bucks and still make a handsom profit and as was said, drove his son Edsel to an early grave.

Such is life. Edsel had the best cars that Ford could make. His life may have been short but he did a lot in that short time.

[cmbrucew]

I remember a story I heard when i was young.
Henry Ford traded Dupont Paint to Chrystler for hydralic brakes.
Don't know for sure, but that was an old-timers story, and no one said
it could not be true. My grandfather was a ford mechanic.

Works good
Lasts long time

[Fordors]

I don't think the welders got "pretty good at it", I think the body assemblers got good at using the jigs provided and the automatic welding equipment worked as intended. Whether it was mig, resistance, or spot welding the equipment did the actual joining operation, I doubt any gas welding was employed at Ford on our early V-8's. Gas welding requires far too much skill and ability to meet the volume Ford produced.

[Dale Fairfax]

Bodies and probably garnish moldings were butt welded together in a resistance welding fixture where the components/panels were clamped in a VERY rigid fixture which had the capability of pushing the parts together while a huge voltage was applied. The result was fusion at the joint line. The joint was completely welded then metal finished on the exterior. No MIG or TIG was involved. I have seen some '32 bodies where some solder (lead) was required to finish the exterior of the joints. The process is similar to a a band saw blade welder.

[39 STD]

I don't know what Henry did back in the 30's-40's. But I started with GM in 66, in the body shop. At that time they were using spot, mig & gas welding. Pay rate was, spot welders were paid less than mig welders. Gas welders were the best paid. A good gas weld can be flawless after being finished. On a side note, the workers applying lead were also at the top of the pay scale.