The Ford Barn

ckulchar · 08-11-2021, 09:13 PM

Just curious. Would a Model A with the original motor be valued higher than a replacement or restamped motor? Also would a replacement or restamped motor give you pause not to buy the car?

Thanks for your opinion
Charley

J Franklin · 08-11-2021, 09:20 PM

It might depend on how well either engine ran. Not many model As made it this long wearing its original engine. On most As the body would have to be lifted just to verify the fact.

Tom Wesenberg · 08-11-2021, 09:27 PM

I place more value on matching original numbers, but the most important thing is how well it runs.

alexiskai · 08-11-2021, 09:47 PM

As J Franklin says, it can be impossible to verify that the numbers match without disassembling the car, so as the buyer, sometimes the only thing you can do is look for whether the manufacturing date of the engine is roughly correlated to the apparent "model year" of the body.

ronn · 08-12-2021, 03:03 AM

to most- it doesnt matter for a driver. to those that it matters, can be a 10% differential.

just resell to someone where it doesnt matter............90% of the crowd.

what is important is that the engine runs well.

Chris in WNC · 08-12-2021, 06:21 AM

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running well is most important, but engine # matching title is important too.

the number is just easier to correct than a poor runner.....

Big hammer · 08-12-2021, 06:26 AM

6 or 7 figure model A, then yes, now where's at stainless steel Tudor ?

Mister Moose · 08-12-2021, 06:31 AM

I would think matching numbers become more important as the value of the car increases. A driver that isn't very original with 12V alternator, juice brakes, over drive, etc etc won't matter so much if the numbers don't match. A pristine 2 door completely stock Phaeton would likely matter more.

My numbers match, but I can't find the photo I took of the frame number... sigh.

77Birdman · 08-12-2021, 07:04 AM

As a potential Model A buyer, I would def. be more excited about buying a car that had the original motor. However, after reading this forum for a few years I have realized that there have been many cars with replacement motors even dating back to the factory service replacements. Buying a car with a replacement would in no way break the deal, original would only make it that much better. ASSUMING the original motor is indeed road worthy and serviceable.

ronn · 08-12-2021, 07:07 AM

consider your audience- half would be rodders that would pull the motor anyway for a sbc.

chrs1961815 · 08-12-2021, 08:04 AM

If it has the original engine, it means not too many things were messed with (theoretically).

gdmn852 · 08-12-2021, 08:10 AM

Ford had an a engine replacement program even then, offered V8 engine replacement in 1933 for the 32 Fords that were hardly a year old! Dealer was to restamp replacement engine with original number, so say a 1929 had a engine change in 1931 by the dealer, by now everyone would think it’s the original.however the are differences on later engine. Unless you are building a points car , a good running engine would be more important.As I mentioned many engines were changed out early in Model A s career.

Chris in WNC · 08-13-2021, 07:24 AM

matching number does not guarantee original engine.

I have re-stamped 2 replacement engines to match titles......

Tom Wesenberg · 08-13-2021, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

matching number does not guarantee original engine.

I have re-stamped 2 replacement engines to match titles......

True, but the original stamp is on raw casting, and all the restamps I've seen are on a flat ground surface.

JD-OHIO · 08-13-2021, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

matching number does not guarantee original engine.

I have re-stamped 2 replacement engines to match titles......

Could you describe the process and where you got your dies?

ckulchar · 08-13-2021, 08:30 AM

Not to hijack my own post but I have a question?
Next to JD-OHIO post a green dot was shown next to the report button. Did I do something accidently while scrolling to cause that green light? Backed out and then looked at the post again and the dot on his post clear like all the other replies. Apologize to JD-OHIO if I accidentally reported your post. I am left handed so scroll with same.

gdmn852 · 08-13-2021, 09:05 AM

Hello again, I think the reason the restamp numbers are on a ground surface is because that is how the old number was removed. In Pennsylvania it would have been illegal to have an engine without numbers.Car thieves were as prevalent then as now , that is how “Baby Face Nelson “ got his start. Engine number always starts and ends with a star and the font was somewhat particular to Ford also changed in 1931 .

ronn · 08-13-2021, 09:12 AM

gdmn

Tom is referring to the rough casting on the block. replacement blocks would have had rough castings.

a ground block is too smooth and obvious...........

of course, we are mostly speaking of common A's and not a Van Gogh here.

how "real" do you want your forgery to be? all is possible.

look up the henning nickel- he almost had it right........

many cars get their senior awards at Hershey, with some small amount of "forgery" involved- esp the brass cars.

Chris in WNC · 08-14-2021, 08:58 AM

no forgery involved, ronn.
just replacement of a worn out or damaged part (engine block) with another that matches it exactly (including number).....

ronn · 08-14-2021, 09:16 AM

in some circles Chirs- that would be forgery. for example- a piece of early American furniture from the early 1700s........ one couldnt just replace a leg or table top and call it "original"

in the general scheme of things regarding model A, it doesnt much matter. A few model A town cars have had replacement engines and yes, in those cases it does affect value. depends often on rarity.

most model As are not rare at all.

08-11-2021, 09:13 PM	#1
ckulchar Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Amherst Ohio Posts: 157	Original motor value Just curious. Would a Model A with the original motor be valued higher than a replacement or restamped motor? Also would a replacement or restamped motor give you pause not to buy the car? Thanks for your opinion Charley

08-11-2021, 09:20 PM	#2
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 6,581	Re: Original motor value It might depend on how well either engine ran. Not many model As made it this long wearing its original engine. On most As the body would have to be lifted just to verify the fact.

08-11-2021, 09:27 PM	#3
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Original motor value I place more value on matching original numbers, but the most important thing is how well it runs.

08-11-2021, 09:47 PM	#4
alexiskai Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Mebane NC Posts: 3,176	Re: Original motor value As J Franklin says, it can be impossible to verify that the numbers match without disassembling the car, so as the buyer, sometimes the only thing you can do is look for whether the manufacturing date of the engine is roughly correlated to the apparent "model year" of the body.

08-12-2021, 03:03 AM	#5
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 7,873	Re: Original motor value to most- it doesnt matter for a driver. to those that it matters, can be a 10% differential. just resell to someone where it doesnt matter............90% of the crowd. what is important is that the engine runs well.

08-12-2021, 06:21 AM	#6
Chris in WNC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spruce Pine, NC Posts: 1,533	Re: Original motor value Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) running well is most important, but engine # matching title is important too. the number is just easier to correct than a poor runner..... __________________ no more model As for now........

08-12-2021, 06:26 AM	#7
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,631	Re: Original motor value 6 or 7 figure model A, then yes, now where's at stainless steel Tudor ? __________________ Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap get a bigger hammer tap done

08-12-2021, 06:31 AM	#8
Mister Moose Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Hartford area, CT Posts: 374	Re: Original motor value I would think matching numbers become more important as the value of the car increases. A driver that isn't very original with 12V alternator, juice brakes, over drive, etc etc won't matter so much if the numbers don't match. A pristine 2 door completely stock Phaeton would likely matter more. My numbers match, but I can't find the photo I took of the frame number... sigh.

08-12-2021, 07:04 AM	#9
77Birdman Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: North Eastern MD Posts: 486	Re: Original motor value As a potential Model A buyer, I would def. be more excited about buying a car that had the original motor. However, after reading this forum for a few years I have realized that there have been many cars with replacement motors even dating back to the factory service replacements. Buying a car with a replacement would in no way break the deal, original would only make it that much better. ASSUMING the original motor is indeed road worthy and serviceable.

08-12-2021, 07:07 AM	#10
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 7,873	Re: Original motor value consider your audience- half would be rodders that would pull the motor anyway for a sbc.

08-12-2021, 08:04 AM	#11
chrs1961815 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Spring Grove, Illinois Posts: 1,371	Re: Original motor value If it has the original engine, it means not too many things were messed with (theoretically). __________________ "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

08-12-2021, 08:10 AM	#12
gdmn852 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Erie Pa Posts: 1,111	Re: Original motor value Ford had an a engine replacement program even then, offered V8 engine replacement in 1933 for the 32 Fords that were hardly a year old! Dealer was to restamp replacement engine with original number, so say a 1929 had a engine change in 1931 by the dealer, by now everyone would think it’s the original.however the are differences on later engine. Unless you are building a points car , a good running engine would be more important.As I mentioned many engines were changed out early in Model A s career.

08-13-2021, 07:24 AM	#13
Chris in WNC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spruce Pine, NC Posts: 1,533	Re: Original motor value matching number does not guarantee original engine. I have re-stamped 2 replacement engines to match titles...... __________________ no more model As for now........

08-13-2021, 08:30 AM	#16
ckulchar Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Amherst Ohio Posts: 157	Re: Original motor value Not to hijack my own post but I have a question? Next to JD-OHIO post a green dot was shown next to the report button. Did I do something accidently while scrolling to cause that green light? Backed out and then looked at the post again and the dot on his post clear like all the other replies. Apologize to JD-OHIO if I accidentally reported your post. I am left handed so scroll with same.

08-13-2021, 09:05 AM	#17
gdmn852 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Erie Pa Posts: 1,111	Re: Original motor value Hello again, I think the reason the restamp numbers are on a ground surface is because that is how the old number was removed. In Pennsylvania it would have been illegal to have an engine without numbers.Car thieves were as prevalent then as now , that is how “Baby Face Nelson “ got his start. Engine number always starts and ends with a star and the font was somewhat particular to Ford also changed in 1931 .

08-13-2021, 09:12 AM	#18
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 7,873	Re: Original motor value gdmn Tom is referring to the rough casting on the block. replacement blocks would have had rough castings. a ground block is too smooth and obvious........... of course, we are mostly speaking of common A's and not a Van Gogh here. how "real" do you want your forgery to be? all is possible. look up the henning nickel- he almost had it right........ many cars get their senior awards at Hershey, with some small amount of "forgery" involved- esp the brass cars.

08-14-2021, 08:58 AM	#19
Chris in WNC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spruce Pine, NC Posts: 1,533	Re: Original motor value no forgery involved, ronn. just replacement of a worn out or damaged part (engine block) with another that matches it exactly (including number)..... __________________ no more model As for now........

08-14-2021, 09:16 AM	#20
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 7,873	Re: Original motor value in some circles Chirs- that would be forgery. for example- a piece of early American furniture from the early 1700s........ one couldnt just replace a leg or table top and call it "original" in the general scheme of things regarding model A, it doesnt much matter. A few model A town cars have had replacement engines and yes, in those cases it does affect value. depends often on rarity. most model As are not rare at all.