'38'Cable brakes with 'Floaters'

[39DLXE]

Hello again:
Thought it would be best to start a new thread RE: cable brakes.
I know '37 and '38s have cable brakes, but have also heard 'cable brakes in conjuction w/ 'floaters', and kept well adjusted can function almost as well as 'juice' (my 39) brakes'.
Would probly like to keep original cable brakes, but not familiar with the term 'Floaters' and what their function is. Can any shed any light on this? would be much appreciated.
thanks,
John

[alanwoodieman]

google flatheadted.com, he is the inventor/purveyor of these floaters. I have installed his floater on a couple of Model A's and a 36 sedan, they work good, can slide all four wheels if you want to. I have not done a conversion using cable brakes, one thing I can tell you about cables is you must keep the inner cable free so they will not bind in the outer shield

[39DLXE]

OK ! WOW. Quick response! Thanks alanwoodieman, will check that google and what you say makes a lot of sense regarding inner cable and shield.
thanks again,

John

[Kurt in NJ]

it should have floaters from the factory
good well lubed cables---not grease, grease will make the cables sticky, motor oil or gear oil, make a funnel by tieing plastic on the outer on one end to make a funnel and work the cable till clean oil comes out the other end

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by 39DLXE

Hello again:
Thought it would be best to start a new thread RE: cable brakes.
I know '37 and '38s have cable brakes, but have also heard 'cable brakes in conjuction w/ 'floaters', and kept well adjusted can function almost as well as 'juice' (my 39) brakes'.
Would probly like to keep original cable brakes, but not familiar with the term 'Floaters' and what their function is. Can any shed any light on this? would be much appreciated.
thanks,
John

Allow me to make a correction to your statement that cable brakes can function ALMOST as well as juice brakes: With floaters, and properly adjusted, cable brakes will perform BETTER than any Ford juice brakes up to at least 1948. Cable brakes will also be more reliable than ANY juice brakes up to dual master cylinder brakes.

About floaters, their function is to permit the shoes to float as Ford intended, thereby becoming self energized. How this is done is to convert the adjuster from a wedge type adjuster ( Hotchkiss, adjusted with a wrench) to a star type adjuster (Bendix, adjusted with a brake spoon). The Hotchkiss design with wedges does not permit the floating action sufficiently to be self energizing every time you apply the brakes, as the components are "wedged" tightly against each other, preventing any meaningful movement, almost being in a fixed position. The Bendix Star type, is not restricted in its movement at all, meaning that the shoes are absolutely free to move, providing the desired self energizing effect.

Flathead Ted has designed a wedge floater for the early Fords, before 1937, that performs better than the original Ford wedge. The early Fords could not accommodate a Bendix type adjuster, so his product has gained favor for those early Fords, but due to its retaining the wedge design, cannot perform near as well as the star type in '37 - '38 brakes.

[39DLXE]

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Significant amount of credible inf., ford38v8. I watched his youtube video and if this car is viable I think your inf on Flathead Ted's floaters is convincing.

Thanks
John

[Capsacto]

Shortly after I purchased my 37 three years ago I was inspecting and lubing everything on the chassis. My brake cables were so tight and gummed up with stuff I couldn’t move them through their conduits by hand. I Pulled the front drums and rear hub/drum assemblies to inspect the brakes. I removed the cables from their lever arms so that they could move through the whole length of the conduits. I cleaned the cables and used some PB Blaster lubricant for cables until the movement was smooth as silk with no resistance. It’s a time consuming job, but we’ll worth it. Everything ford38v8 wrote is on target.

[Jack E/NJ]

ford38v8>>>Flathead Ted has designed a wedge floater for the early Fords, before 1937, that performs better than the original Ford wedge. The early Fords could not accommodate a Bendix type adjuster, so his product has gained favor for those early Fords, but due to its retaining the wedge design, cannot perform near as well as the star type in '37 - '38 brakes.>>>

Sadly I replaced my mechanicals with Lockheeds. Probably even before FlatheadTed graduated from kindy. His mechanical floaters came too late for me. Now I'm hoping he can soon release his Lockheed floaters before it's too late again. 8^) Jack E/NJ

[ford38v8]

From the last two responses, it appears that I have not made it clear that Flathead Ted's Lockheed Wedge type floaters work well in pre-1937 Fords, but the better choice for '37-'38 Fords would be the Bendix Star type adjusters. Sadly, I do not know of a manufacturer of the Star type today. Someone did say Mac's has it, not sure.

[Chuck Kuntz]

I installed a set of Ted's floaters on a friends 37. The installation was fairly easy and made a big difference in the car.

[Jack E/NJ]

from https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...8338&showall=1

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

FlatheadTed>>>Yes like Bendix>>>OK. What about a kit for Lockheed hydraulics? When I was a clueless youngster, I installed them on my 38 thinking they'd stop quicker & straighter. I was only half right. 8^( Jack E/NJ

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

You mean like 39 hydraulics ,I have the prototypes but never went any further ,since the Lincolns are available ,Should I revive the development ,Ted

Happily, FlatheadTed seems to be on the case. I think he's now testing 60 prototypes. Jack E/NJ

[flathead_jr]

The 37 and 38 already have a "floating" mechanism / adjuster. What is the difference in the stock wedge, vs. what Flathead Ted provides for the 37 & 38? Has anyone ever used the 37 / 38 adjuster in the 35 / 36 brake assembly? I pulled a couple out over the weekend from some spare 37 backing plates that I have, and the cast piece that rivets to the backing plate seems to be the same up to 38. Unless the adjusters stick out to far why couldn't I just use the later parts in the earlier system?

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by flathead_jr

The 37 and 38 already have a "floating" mechanism / adjuster. What is the difference in the stock wedge, vs. what Flathead Ted provides for the 37 & 38? Has anyone ever used the 37 / 38 adjuster in the 35 / 36 brake assembly? I pulled a couple out over the weekend from some spare 37 backing plates that I have, and the cast piece that rivets to the backing plate seems to be the same up to 38. Unless the adjusters stick out to far why couldn't I just use the later parts in the earlier system?

Jr, read my previous response#5. The two systems are completely different. The two pictures I posted in #5 show original type on the left, star adjuster type on the right.

[flathead_jr]

Completely different is an overstatement. Both types operate in the same manner with a lever and wedge with rollers. The only difference being the placement of the lever, and cables instead of rods. The only major difference being some added springs, and a different type of adjuster assembly.

[ford38v8]

Jr, apparently, we’re not on the same page. The star adjuster does not employ a wedge. Once again, I’ll refer you to the pictures in post#5 to demonstrate the difference.

[rich b]

When my father-in-law was going thru his '37; he found "floaters" similar to the Thomas ones in post #5. For some reason he wanted to go back to stock, picked up the stock adjuster parts at Little Dearborn and replaced the aftermarket stuff. Brakes worked good when done; but I still think they may have been better with the floating adjuster.

[flathead_jr]

I think you are not understanding. The original 37 mechanism has nearly the same type of parts as in the first photo. I do not not have that part presented in the second photo, and never mentioned anything of it. Now if people would pay attention to what I was asking, what would be wrong with using the 37 parts in the 36.

[Brian]

Actually jr, part way through the 36 production year, Ford did indeed redesign the adjuster/ wedge mechanism and it very closely resembles the 37 style. This is all covered in a certain service bulletin sometime through 1936. Sorry, I cannot tell you which months service bulletin, some other member on here should be able to furnish that info. But yes, by all means, use the 37 style adjusters in your 36.

[ford38v8]

Jr, on the contrary, it was both of us that experienced a preventable mis-understanding. Protocol here on the Ford Barn suggests that you don’t hijack a 7 year old thread to ask a new question while flat out denying legitimate answers to the original question. Your question deserves the creation of a new thread that does not confuse the issue of multiple questions.