Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929

[Chippy Minton]

Once the car is running and you take it for a drive does the engine run and pull normally? I believe you need to decide whether the problem is to do with the mechanicals in the engine or the electrical system up to and including the starter.

[Big hammer]

Originally Posted by Chippy Minton

Once the car is running and you take it for a drive does the engine run and pull normally? I believe you need to decide whether the problem is to do with the mechanicals in the engine or the electrical system up to and including the starter.

He said it bump starts easy,immediately, or sumthing like that! My guess new 12 battery cables. When my starter mounted switch quit, it shot out sparks, no smoke! Anyone know how to put sparks back in wiring? I know how to put smoke back in wires :-) When i was a teen working for dad, we had to date stamp new batteries, the number stamps where on a metal ring and i made the ring mad at me, it got soooo mad it turned red and burnt my fingers, only once!

[Chippy Minton]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

He said it bump starts easy,immediately, or sumthing like that! My guess new 12 battery cables. When my starter mounted switch quit, it shot out sparks, no smoke! Anyone know how to put sparks back in wiring? I know how to put smoke back in wires :-) When i was a teen working for dad, we had to date stamp new batteries, the number stamps where on a metal ring and i made the ring mad at me, it got soooo mad it turned red and burnt my fingers, only once!

As you say, you guess. All I was suggesting was he made this diagnosis so he knows. Knowing always trumps a guess.

[ronn]

cables..............

[Mitch//pa]

I have seen many stock A's with no extra grounds and 12v cables crank fine.. im not saying i recommend ever going that route just mentioning my experiences.
And yes i replaced them all with the proper gauge cables

[zzlegend]

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Nothing makes sense here. Use to start 2 weeks ago. Now new starter and cables, and cranks slowly. Hard to crank by hand. Like I said, pull the plugs and see how it hand cranks. How does the oil look and water level. Process of elimination. Hum.

[Terry, NJ]

Put a new 6v battery cable and a heavy ground strap. Before you connect the ground strap (Pos) to the frame get another 6V cable with two bolt ends (not battery ends). Throughly clean the area where the ground strap is connected. Bolt the ground strap and the auxiliary ground cable to the frame and connect the end of the auxiliary to say, one of the flywheel housing bolts, starter bolts, as long as it's on the eng. I put one of these on each of my three cars and I find that they crank a little faster and the batteries keep their charge longer while cranking.
Terry

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by gimlegule

If I start the car in 2nd gear rolling down a hill instead od using the starter it will start imediatly, If i use the starter it harly turns and the batterycable get hot and start to smoke, I changed the starter and the battery and both battery cables and still it hardly turns over and smoke start to come from starter if i turn let it go to loong, but it still works but slovely just as the other starter that was newly overhauld and used to work perfekt weeks ago. Can it be a exchous valve that doesnt open, so it create to much compression ? its hard to hand crank when the pictons comes up .I thought aboute the bearing on axcle holding the picton rod that they might been to tight, but they are old and not touched, so probely loose instead of tight. any inputs everything have been fine until reasently it got harder and harder to start with the starter motor until almost impossible

When a part gets hot and starts to smoke, it can be caused by high resistance or by too many amps running through the wire for it's size. Since you bought two new cables, I hope you got the correct size, but like Mitch said, I've also seen 12 volt cables work OK. These cables are fairly short, so you should have very little line loss.

You mention hard to crank, so you need to determine if you have a mechanical problem with the engine. How hard is it to hand crank as compared to another similar Model A engine?

Have you checked the starter switch screws length (5/16") to make sure they aren't too long and shorting the fields?

A tight engine or a short in the starter will make the starter draw too many amps and heat the cable.
We need feedback from the owner, or it will be a lot more guessing.

[Mitch//pa]

The OP is MIA

[Chippy Minton]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

You mention hard to crank, so you need to determine if you have a mechanical problem with the engine. How hard is it to hand crank as compared to another similar Model A engine?

Exactly. Then, if it's not tight look at the electrical side.

[1crosscut]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

The OP is MIA

He checked the site at 10:41 today.

[Mitch//pa]

It seems the same things are being repeated over and over

[bill boz]

The electronic ignition module is very sensitive to low voltage. If the starter is drawing to much current, or if there is a resistance in the starter circuit, the voltage will drop below the threshold and you will not be getting any spark during starting. The car will start fine with a push start as there is no voltage drop from the starter. The only time that I have had a problem with my electronic ignition was on New Years eve last year. We were on a tour with our club and the cars spent the night out side in sub freezing temperatures. I could only start my car with a push start until it was warmed up. If you are having difficulty it could simply be low voltage. If your battery is cold, near or below freezing, it will produce much less power and will have a much higher voltage drop.
Hope this helps
Bill

[gimlegule]

I have taken the starter switch apart and cleaned everything for good conection, it looks good.Both battery cables brand News fastened directly to the starter.losend waterpump scrue in case it was making tge camscaft hold back, New battery, losend the scrues which holds the starter switch in case they was to loong, losened the main bearings and tighten when I saw it made no difference, New 10-40 mineral oil.cleaned the valves With w40. handcranked With ignition of, With sparkplugs out it was fairly easy, but With sparkplugs in Heavy to turn. My battey cables are medium size, My starter is now tested With in another Ford model A and it worked just fine, but in my car it hardly turns.I am running out of ideas, will try to pull it to start and drive it for a while to see if something losen up ? I was told that I could try a 12 volt battery if I dont crank to loong, but would that damage my 6 volt Electronic ignition and coil that I just put in ? Thanks for all good advice so fare !

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

.you took the pan off and loosened and retightened the main bearings?
What is the wire gauge #. Medium size is too open ended.

[40 Deluxe]

Have you done a voltage drop test on all the cables? Maybe a new cable has a bad crimp at one of the ends, causing high resistance. Try cranking for about 10-15 seconds, then immediately fee for a warm/hot spot along the cables and at the cable ends. Also the starter and switch. Read the current draw with an inductive ammeter and compare with an A that starts properly. Do the same with a volt meter while cranking and compare.

[gimlegule]

After changing the battery/ground cables They dont smoke anymore, just the starter engine get hot/smokes when cranked to loong, due to to much resistance mechanicly somewhere I believe, will check everything again tomorrow and try tio drive it a bit to see if it cranks easier, it puls and run strong when first started by pulling to start, Climbs jhills fine, but will adjust advance timing corectly withj special key made for that , ignition is Electronic. hard to hand crank when sparkplugs are in.

[gimlegule]

Yes took of pan and cleaned it and tested the bearing, not to tight ! I put 12 volt battery cables in the car, there is one size thicker cables, but they are not loong enough ,the ones I use is same as most 12 volt cars use in thickness.

[Chippy Minton]

If the car has a six volt battery it needs the correct cables, those for a twelve volt system will not do. Is the electronic ignition six volt too? It should be. If everything is six volt do not link it to a twelve volt battery.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Buy the battery cables from a Model A parts house, and you will have good cables.
Have you tried cranking the engine with the key off?
If the timing is advanced during cranking, it will fight the starter and make it hard to turn over.